WHAT ARE THE SABBATHS IN COLOSSIANS 2:16, 17 SHADOWS OF???

[hfsturges]

Just a couple of comments:

It is critically important to know just what the Old Covenant was, and what the New Covenant is. Exodus 19:8 and 24:3-8 picture an old covenant centered on the promises of the people. These promises were not bad (Deuteronomy 5:28,29) but were faulty in the presumption and self confidence of the Jews at the time.

However this was the covenant God made with the Jews at that time, and the covenant they followed to some extent for the rest of their national history. It was a covenant of dedication -- dedication to the covenant of God. It was repeated by the good kings of Judah.

The covenant God made with Abraham was repeated to Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and to Israel when Moses returned to lead them out of Egypt, and repeated in Exodus 19:4-6. Abraham's response was the response of faith. This covenant is repeated in 1 Peter 2:9. I believe that the Abrahamic covenant, as a covenant between God and man (God and Israel) is still our covenant for today. Romans 11 indicates that the church is nothing but God's covenant people (Israel) today.

The covenant becomes an "Old Covenant" any time that people repeat the mistake of the Jews at Sinai -- presumption and self confidence. A problem that has always plagued mankind -- the Old Testament Jews, at the time of Christ, and even in the Christian church (typified by the Judaizers).

Enough for now.

[skyblue888]

The keeping of the typical feasts and the sacrificial system were not a "ministration of death." On the contrary, they pointed to Christ. So how could these things be against us? These were not nailed to the cross. True, they came to an end when Christ died but they were not nailed to the cross as though they were against us. They came to an end because Christ was the antitype of all types.

It is the moral law that condemns the sinner. "The wages of sin is death." Rom.6:23. When Christ died upon the cross He took the sentence of death out of the way so that everyone who believes on Him, that is, who relies solely upon the merits of His shed blood for his acceptance with God, shall not perish but receive the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit received into the heart is the beginning of eternal life.

The "ministration of death" Paul is talking about in 2 Cor.3 is the ministration of the letter of the moral law written with ink or engraved on stones. "The letter kills." verse 6. The letter cannot impart life to the sinner. But when that same law is received from the mouth of God it is Spirit and Life through the merits of His shed blood! "The words that I SPEAK unto you, they are Spirit and they are Life." John 6:63. It is then the ministration of the Spirit and the Spirit imparts life, even a new life in Christ Jesus.

sky

[skyblue888]

Ron, Jesus said, "The flesh profits nothing." John 6:63. To be a descendant of Abraham according to the flesh profits nothing unless there is a spiritual connection with God through Christ by the Spirit. And in order to have a spiritual connection with Christ one must appropriate His merits by faith. One must daily come to God just as he is, sinful, helpless, dependent, and then lay hold upon the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour. Then Christ dwells in the heart by faith and He imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the penitence, all the inclination, all the pardon of sins! Then the pardoned souls may go on from grace to grace and from light to a greater light being enabled to keep all the commandments of God (ten commandments).

"Love God (first four commandments of the law) and your neighbor as yourself (last six commandments of the law) is all the law and the prophets. In fact Jesus Himself said that the whole law and the prophets are fulfilled in one word: "Love one another fervently as I have loved you." Gal.5:14; Matt.7:12; Psalm 119:96.

This commandment, received as the voice of God speaking to the soul, becomes a promise, a most positive promise of the impartation of the Spirit who alone can fill up the measure of of the law's demand.

This is what it means to keep the feast. This is what it means to be a true Jew, not one outwardly but inwardly. Rom.2:28,29; Gal.3:29.

sky

[Ron Amnsn]

The covenant God made with Abraham was repeated to Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and to Israel when Moses returned to lead them out of Egypt, and repeated in Exodus 19:4-6. Abraham's response was the response of faith. This covenant is repeated in 1 Peter 2:9. I believe that the Abrahamic covenant, as a covenant between God and man (God and Israel) is still our covenant for today. Romans 11 indicates that the church is nothing but God's covenant people (Israel) today.

Hello HF Sturges,

I agree that God's covenant with Abraham and his descendants is incorporated into God's covenant made with the people of Israel at Sinai. That's because the Israelites were the legitimate heirs of Abraham. So they received it by inheritance. And God confirmed that by repeating it and expanding it.

Inheritance is an important concept in the Bible. We all inherited from our forefather Adam the fallen state of man. But we also inherited the promise that God would someday send a Messiah. From Noah we inherited God's promise symbolized by the rainbow.

The heirs of Abraham and Jacob inherit the covenants that God gave to Abraham and Jacob, unless they do something to put themselves outside that inheritance so that they are "cut off" from their people. Some Israelites and Jews have been cut off, and some have not. Some that were cut off have been grafted in again to their own olive tree by faith in Messiah. Gentiles who are not the natural children and heirs of Abraham and Jacob can also be grafted in to literal Israel by faith in Jesus and become heirs of the covenants.

God honors his covenants, and someday soon when Abraham and Jacob are resurrected they will look around and see what has transpired over the centuries and they will confirm that God has honored his personal promises to them and their heirs.

An interesting detail of Abraham's covenant was that Abraham was told that any of his male heirs who was not circumcised would be cut off from the covenant. So if God were to cast off the circumcised descendants of Abraham (which hasn't happened) and were to hand Abraham's covenant over to a "Church" full of non-circumcised Christians, God would have broken his covenant with Abraham; and at the resurrection Abraham would look at the un-circumcised and say, "Uhm... I'm sorry God, but these people can't be the heirs of the covenant you gave to me. These people are cut off from that covenant." (God could perhaps remedy the situation in a manner similar to what Joshua did by having a mass circumcision after crossing into the promised land, but this is speculative.)

[skyblue888]

Gentiles who are not the natural children and heirs of Abraham and Jacob can also be grafted in to literal Israel by faith in Jesus and become heirs of the covenants.

Ron

__________________________________________

Your last post was quite interesting, Ron, to say the very least of it. But this sentence above is even more so. Gentiles can also be grafted in to literal Israel!!! Wow, that is something else. How can this be? Since A.D.34 the Jews belong to the "Gentile" world, Ron. Individually, if they accept Christ and trust in His merits alone for their acceptance with God, then they can be grafted in to spiritual Israel, only then. Otherwise they are dead in trespasses and sins like the rest of the unbelieving world.

"If you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Gal.3:29.

"For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh, but he is a Jew who is one inwardly, and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not from men but from God." Rom.8:28,29.

These are the true heirs of Abraham according to the promise, heirs of Christ and co-heirs with God.

sky

[phkrause]

I thought we were duscussing whether it is required for Christians to keep those feasts or not. Today those Jews who keep the feasts, do they keep them just because they want to or because they still believe that they are required to keep them? Since they do not believe in Christ, their keeping of the feasts can only be a way to earn their salvation. It is nothing but salvation by works. sky

And you know this how? I believe this would be judging? Isn't that up to God to determine? And how many SDAs are trying to work there way to heaven?

[Ron Amnsn]

The keeping of the typical feasts and the sacrificial system were not a "ministration of death." On the contrary, they pointed to Christ. So how could these things be against us? These were not nailed to the cross. True, they came to an end when Christ died but they were not nailed to the cross as though they were against us. They came to an end because Christ was the antitype of all types.

Let's test the assertion in that last sentence to see if it is true.

First we'll list all the Scripture passages that teach that a type ends when the antitype appears:

Then we'll list all the Scripture passages that teach that Christ was the antitype of all types:

Then we'll check through the types in the Scriptures to see if Christ has fulfilled them all as the anti-type. Here are some that don't seem to have been completely fulfilled by Christ's first coming:

Sabbath

Seventh-year resting of the land

Jubilee

Throne of David

King David

Pentecost

Trumpets

Day of Atonement

Feast of Tabernacles

The Exodus

The plagues sent on Egypt

The destruction of Sodom

Bridegroom

a Wedding feast

Babylon

Jerusalem

The incense

Mercy Seat

first death

etc.

Then we'll see if there were any types that did NOT end when the corresponding antitype appeared:

baptism (mikvah) -> death and resurrection of Messiah

bread -> Bread of Life

lions -> Lion of the Tribe of Judah

unleavened bread and wine of Passover/Lord's supper -> body and blood of Messiah

sun -> Sun of Righteousness

cornerstones - the Chief Cornerstone

vines -> the Vine

the rock at Horeb -> Messiah

Then we'll see how the assertion fared.

[Ron Amnsn]

It is critically important to know just what the Old Covenant was, and what the New Covenant is. Exodus 19:8 and 24:3-8 picture an old covenant centered on the promises of the people. These promises were not bad (Deuteronomy 5:28,29) but were faulty in the presumption and self confidence of the Jews at the time.

[...]

The covenant becomes an "Old Covenant" any time that people repeat the mistake of the Jews at Sinai -- presumption and self confidence. A problem that has always plagued mankind -- the Old Testament Jews, at the time of Christ, and even in the Christian church (typified by the Judaizers).

Speaking of the Israelites at Sinai God declared, "They have done well in all that they have spoken." (Deut 5:28) Yet you disagree with God by saying that their words were "faulty" and a "mistake". That's a brash assertion. God says, "Well done" and you say "faulty promises, a mistake". I hope you have some really solid Scriptures to to back up your assertion. (It sounds like "God doesn't really mean what he says", which is a familiar refrain.) Where does Scripture say that the Israelites' words were anything less or different than what God desired them to say?

Exodus 19:3-8 occurs before the Israelites entered into the covenant of Sinai. At that point nobody had ever heard of the Sinai covenant and nobody knew that God intended to make a special covenant with the Israelites. After God told Moses of his intention to establish a covenant, Moses extended the invitation to the Israelites. The Israelites had not yet heard the terms of the covenant-- that would come later, if the Israelites were agreeable. The Israelites indicated their willingness to enter into a covenant using words of submission, "All that YHWH has spoken we will do." Those who have studied the covenants that were made between rulers and people during that time period tell us that these words were the standard response when a great king offered to make a covenant with a lesser ruler or people. That's why all the people knew what to answer and they said it together. Have you ever tried to get a million people to say something together? In that case the customs of covenant making were known, just as today it is known that "I do" is said during a wedding.

[skyblue888]

[skyblue888]

It is critically important to know just what the Old Covenant was, and what the New Covenant is. Exodus 19:8 and 24:3-8 picture an old covenant centered on the promises of the people. These promises were not bad (Deuteronomy 5:28,29) but were faulty in the presumption and self confidence of the Jews at the time.

[...]

The covenant becomes an "Old Covenant" any time that people repeat the mistake of the Jews at Sinai -- presumption and self confidence. A problem that has always plagued mankind -- the Old Testament Jews, at the time of Christ, and even in the Christian church (typified by the Judaizers).

[The Searcher]

Dear Friends,

The very text (Col. 2.16,17) that began this study answers the question whether to observe the feasts or not.

The Koine Greek word for "judge" also includes the idea of "to determine"

As I have studied this in its original; I would suggest we could follow its advice: "Therefore do not let any one determine for you in food and in drink and in festivals or new moons or Sabbaths, "

There are some things that are left to the individual to determine for themselves.

They are shadows of what is to come; the only shadow which has not met its type is the Feast of Booths which begins in the 15th day of the seventh month.

Also Isaiah 66 indicates we will gather together at new moons and sabbaths in heaven.

Paul also has recorded incidents of observing these holy days.

So let us allow everyone to determine for themselves their relationship to these Holy days.

Sincerely,

The searcher

[Gail]

Sky, I wonder if you could use the quote function when quoting. It would make the quotes in your posts much easier to make out...

[Johnnboy]

Dear Friends,

The very text (Col. 2.16,17) that began this study answers the question whether to observe the feasts or not.

The Koine Greek word for "judge" also includes the idea of "to determine"

As I have studied this in its original; I would suggest we could follow its advice: "Therefore do not let any one determine for you in food and in drink and in festivals or new moons or Sabbaths, "

There are some things that are left to the individual to determine for themselves.

They are shadows of what is to come; the only shadow which has not met its type is the Feast of Booths which begins in the 15th day of the seventh month.

Also Isaiah 66 indicates we will gather together at new moons and sabbaths in heaven.

Paul also has recorded incidents of observing these holy days.

So let us allow everyone to determine for themselves their relationship to these Holy days.

Sincerely,

The searcher

Searcher,

The only true unerring principle that could ever be applied to interpret the fulfillment of the fall feasts is the manner in which Jesus. The Messiah, fulfilled the spring feasts in 31 C.E. The Messiah is the one who has the last word in this discussion. All preconceived ideas and theories must bend to His interpretation.

Speaking of the fulfillment of the spring feasts, the prophet, Ellen White states, “These types were fulfilled, not only as to the event, but as to the time.....” Then the statement continues, “In like manner, the types which relate to the second advent must be fulfilled at the time pointed out in the symbolic service.” GC 399, 400.

The phrase, “In like manner”, written by the prophet, places the limitations on the fulfillment itself, leaving absolutely no room for any other deviant, mystical, abstract, etc. interpretation. Further, the inspired statement says that the fulfillment of the type was “not only as to the event, but as to the time.” This means exactly what it says, in event and IN TIME the spring types were fulfilled.

The spring feasts were fulfilled in a literal 52 days, from Passover, with the Passover being the first day of the 52 days, until the Day of Pentecost, which in Leviticus 23:15, 16 states was 50 days from the observance of the Wave Sheaf (the Wave Sheaf being the 3rd day from the Passover).

Within these 52 days there are 8 “shadow” Sabbaths, which in the year 31 C.E. All fell on weekly 7th day Sabbaths, showing that the “shadow” Sabbaths had their anti-type in the 7th day Sabbath, “shadows of things (Sabbaths) to come”. (See Colossians 2:16, 17)

Each type within these 52 days had a literal fulfillment as their anti-type.

Applying these same principles, to interpret the fulfillment of the fall feasts, according to the directive of the prophet, Ellen White, there are 22 days in the 7th month specified in Leviticus 23 for these feasts.

There are 4 “shadow” Sabbaths within the fall feasts. Everyone of these 4 “shadow” Sabbaths are scheduled within a perfect 7-day sequence between them, including the Day of Atonement, which is the 10th day of the 7th month, taking into account the two years in which the fall feasts have their special significance, the 7th Sabbatical and the Jubilee years. (See Leviticus 25) The fall feasts, as a whole, have their fulfillment in the Sabbatical year, according to the specifications for the Feast of Tabernacles in Deuteronomy 31:10-16.

The reason the Day of Atonement must be on the 10th day, is that it is the only annual feast day with special significance in 2 consecutive years. It must fall on a Monday in the first of these years, the 7th Sabbatical year, and it must fall on a 7th day Sabbath for its grand fulfillment in the following year, the year of Jubilee (Leviticus 25:8-10)(See Early Writings, 286- “Then commenced the Jubilee, when the land should rest.”)

The principles of the future literal fulfillment of the fall feasts does not nullify the historical prophetic application of the Day of Atonement, which fell on Tuesday, October 22, 1844, which began with the judgment of the dead and is still on-going. When the judgment begins on the cases of the living individuals, then the fall feasts will be fulfilled in the literal 22-day setting. This judgment of the living continues on for an unspecified and unknown time.