Fair?

[Planey]

I have been doing some thinking lately. This has required exercising a few mental muscles unaccustomed to such effort. The results have been distressing.

I have always been led to believe (which probably means it is diametrically wrong) that people will miss out on being inhabitants in either heaven or the new earth because they would not be happy there and God respects their wishes. This makes good sense.

Recently I have become so disgruntled with some of the posters on CA that I realise I could not possibly coexist happily with them for 5 minutes, let alone eternity. And these are people who are quite sure they will be there when the roll is called up yonder. Now it doesn't matter who they are, that is not the point.

The point is, that this is just the last in a long line of good reasons why I am convinced that I will not be putting footprints on the golden paving stones. I can accept this, I certainly don't deserve anything else.

I would be quite happy to self-administer what I facetiously call LRT (Lead Replacement Therapy) if I would just vanish from conciousness and that would be the end of it. But no apparently that is not an option. Rather than just let me be, God plans on reviving me eventually and then torturing me to death again in an amazingly cruel and painful way.

Is this fair?, I ask. Why can't I just choose to be gone? I don't want to hurt or kill anyone else. I hold no grudge against God. Why can't he let me be?

Graeme

[benherndon]

Don't take anything too seriously and, especially, maintain a healthy sense of humor. Life isn't fair but we deal with what's handed out to us. It's a blessed Hope we Christians have, its not a blessed guarantee! Whether we like it or not, most of us are actually agnostics--which is way of saying we don't know anything for sure but life, taxes and death. We preach Hope and rightfully so IMO but let's enjoy this life, too----just in case the Hope doesn't turn out like we were taught to believe. 'Believing' is a deliberate choice---but it always has its qualifications. Adam and Eve have been gone for a long time. We'll probably wait right along with them----so respect God, nature or whatever, believe the Bible is the best evidence we have for Him, and be good to each other with lots of smiles and have a good belly laugh now and then.

I like emails--they keep me from becoming too serious!

I've thought like you have--but I prefer to postpose pondering the situation too much and get some belly laughs frequently. I can't be as serious as EGW seemingly was as evidenced by her writings. That's why I reject that every thought, every wasted moment, etc, just can't be true ---and if it is, well, I'll take the consequences. If I believed in a god that exacted every inch of time and attention in this life, get callouses on my knees praying constantly----- Sorry, can't do that!

I'm not a god nor am I a Paul. I spent most of my life responding the requests of others----if that doesn't 'do it' and if I've got to worry about every thought and action all the time, my diet, my fun times, etc---forget it!!!! I choose to worship God the way I seem to believe the Bible says and-----then, I'll take my chances!!

To some people reading the "Red Books" is not what they should do too much. It's rather depressing---at least to me and some others I've queried. It wasn't until I limited my spiritual reading to the Bible that I got what it calls Hope!!

Cheer up, Graeme. Read some jokes. Go have a good tasty bite to eat. Love Momma, or whatever----but be happy!

Go snorkelling the Great Barrier Reef----you live in a wonderful & beautiful land. I've travelled Australia more than anywhere else other than the US here.

Ben (excuse my 'letting my hair down'---if its offensive, I'm soo sorry----delete me instantly!!!)

[Nan]

Hi Graeme - sorry to read of what has been going thru your mind lately. Dr Ben makes a lot of sense. Hope you can find some enjoyable things to do - some brisk walks in the beauty of autumn might be a good start.

And remember the author of the red books once 'saw' a very miserable lady in a garden who was critising the weeds or whatever and ignoring the flowers. Our focus in heaven will be Jesus - other things will be subsiduary - and there will be quite a crowd there, so I am sure we will able to choose with whom we can spend our time.

God bless - however you are feeling, He still has your best welfare foremost.

[Taylor]

Just trust this, that God knows what we can handle and what we can't handle. He has ways of remidying things that we have no idea he has up his sleeve. Do your best to get to know God as your best friend and leave the details of how he is going to have everyone co-habit in heaven up to him. Just becuase you can't get along wtih someone doesn't mean you won't be there. Maybe the problem is you but it is likely the other person. Remember, in any situation there are two sides. Thankfully God knows the reason behind every comment, the secret motives of the heart etc and he will do the judging and will be fair. Don't be too hard on yourself.

Your focus should be on Jesus, on developing a relationship with him and everything will fall into place. Most people would never have to be told to not "go and seek out a different partner" on their wedding night. They are so madly in love they wouldn't think of "cheating" on their spouse. That is the basis of all obedience, love first and the rest will be much more natural than before. Just let Jesus be in the driver's seat of your life and you won't need to worry about the scenery or what road you are on cuz he will get you through. Sure, that might mean there are changes in your life that need to be made, but it will not be painful but joyful becuase of your relationship with Jesus.

Remember, above all that Jesus loves you more than anything. It is actually harder to be lost than to be saved, as we have to purposfully kick against the love of Jesus which keeps coming after us over and over again.

Chin up, you are a child of a heavenly King who adores you.

[Bravus]

...and what makes it work for me is realising that Heaven will be infinitely *big* as well as infinitely extended in time - so we'll be able to get away from the rest of the saints!... (TIC) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Taylor]

hahahaa I love it Bravus. You are too funny!

To live with the saints above oh that will be glory

to live with the saints below....well that's another story.

no kidding. : )

[Planey]

Bravus, an interesting philosophical question in regards to a (genuine) infinity: if there is an infinite time, will we not therefore see each other person (remembering that there is not an infinite number of persons) an infinite number of times?

But back to my original point: if I don't affect anyone else now, why cannot God just let me die in peace and remain dead? I'm content for that to be done, why isn't he?

Graeme

[Taylor]

I am not Bravus, however, the reason God isn't content to do that is that he knows that you don't. He has experienced heaven and knows that it is far cooler, neater, fun, satsifying etc than anything on this earth and he can't wait for you to experience it! Put all your hopes, dreams, wishes, then multiply that times an infinite number and know that heaven will be way better than that. It will be awsome and God is big enough to take care of the details that bother you about heaven. Trust me, it won't be something you want to miss out on.

[Planey]

Thank you, Taylor. Yes I believe the new earth is beyond anything I can imagine. The description of no more tears, the former things not remembered etc are extremely attractive.

However I have tried and failed so many times that I realise that it will never be for me. Not that I wouldn't like to be there, but that God could not afford to have me there. Remember what I said about not being able to coexist with some people here who I only know via words on the internet? Well multiply that by a very large number and you would understand some of what they would feel about having to share a space with me for eternity. I am not a nice person to be with. Just ask my students.

So when I read descriptions of heaven and the new earth I am just depressed by the stark realisation that I will not be there. Now multiply that desolating arrow to the soul with the thought that not only will you miss out but in the meantime you will be resurrected just to ensure you really know that you have dipped out and hey! look over there! that's what you missed, sucker! and now cop this little present of burning sulphur and suffer some indescribable torment while you digest this fact!

Is this an act of love? Surely if God loved me as much as is claimed he could just leave me be. I totally accept that I do not deserve anything, what is to be gained by this act of revenge?

Graeme

[Nicodema]

Hey Sweetie,

It's not an answer, but I can sure relate to your post. Sometimes I feel that way too, and have the exact same thoughts -- whether it's folks on C/A I can't get along with or just folks in the church or the world around me.

I mean to say, "I feel ya."

**hugs**

Nico

[Taylor]

Ahh but you see, you getting to heaven is not dependant on you. Christ will get you there. All you have to do is trust, put yourself in God's hands and he has all the power to get you there. He can change you from the inside out. He can do what you can't do for yourself. It isn't about how many times you have failed but how much God can do for you.Don't look back, just look forward. When you fall, God doesn't expect nor want you to beat yourself up.

Have you ever read the book "Hinds Feet on High Places?" It was about a person called "Much Afraid" and how God gave them courage and strength to become something they weren't before. It is an allegory but very thought provoking. I think you would enjoy it.

While there is breath there is hope. I don't care if you are the nastiest person in the world, whether a criminal or just a sour person. THere is no sin that Jesus didn't die for and there is no sin that his righteousness can not cover. He is way more powerful than the devil.

Remember the poem of "footprints in the sand". He will carry you through.

[Dr. Shane]

If there is a brother or sister in the church that you have problems with let me share something with you I learned in AA. Those old drunks have a little wisdom.

Pray for them. Each night before you sleep include them in your prayers. And not just a "Lord watch over them" line. Get specific. Everything you want, ask God to give it to them. If you want success, health, status, a job, new car, your wife to lose weight, a nice vacation, etc. If you know something they want, pray that they get it. Even if you don't mean it and they are just words you are saying, pray for them. If you wait until you feel like it the devil will make sure that day never comes. You pray for them every night until you actually find yourself wanting your prayers to become true and when you see them you will know that God has changed your heart toward them. You will then truely sing His praises.

[Restin]

Taylor, I read "Hind's Feet in High Places, by Hannah Hurnard. A most excellent allegory for creative minds. Seeing it mentioned here makes me want to read it again. In paperback it's at almost any Christian bookstore, and at Amazon, and also Ebay. Has sure helped a lot of people on the rocky journey to the High Places.

[Taylor]

Amen Shane! Excellent point about prayer! I have found what you said to be true in my own experience as well. God is wonderful!

[Taylor]

Restin, I haven't read the book in years! Just remembering it makes me want to get it out again. It is a wonderful book! I loved it!

[Planey]

To all who have written on this thread, particularly those who were worried about my salvation (or lack of salvation!) thank you very much. I appreciate your concern and your advice, and the spirit in which it was gaiven. Again, thank you.

However, nobody addressed my question "Why will God resurrect sinners like me, who don't disagree that we deserve to miss out on eternal life, just to slowly toast us again?" This honestly doesn't seem like an act of love, no matter how you cut it.

Graeme

[Nan]

Graeme that last post of yours could apply to any and all of us - if we choose to remain in that state. "God has provided an escape" as "He was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself". He does not want to slowly toast or have any of us rapidly consumed in the fire. I firmly believe that the only unpardonable sin is the one for which no repentance is felt. In one sense the ultimate human act of pride is to say that we have sins too big for Christ's sacrifice to cover. He is still knocking.

You original post gave me the impression you were feeling extremely down when you wrote it, and may still be feeling that way. That is not a good time to make major decisions for any part of your life, least of all the eternal part. So please dont give up on any of the good things God is offering us.

[Nicodema]

Quote:

---

I firmly believe that the only unpardonable sin is the one for which no repentance is felt. In one sense the ultimate human act of pride is to say that we have sins too big for Christ's sacrifice to cover.

---

But what if you feel no repentance and you honestly are not "proud" about having sins "too big" for Christ to cover, but genuinely fearful that you've crossed the line and there's no going back? That you've done yourself in for all intents and purposes and will never be restored in Him? That you've hardened your heart beyond all repair? When I compare the person I am now to the person I was when I was younger, it is devastating. I used to be so forgiving and loving and open, warm and free inside, receptive to others; now I am bitter and unforgiving, closed off, closed in upon myself, hard and cold inside, rejecting of others. Even seeking to return to God has not fixed this. I literally feel like the walking dead.

Sorry I don't mean to "threadjack" Graeme's thread here and make it about me. I can start another thread. I just had to post this out before it slipped my grasp.