Christmas.. thanks to a facebook poster :)

[Stan]

"The Day Not to Be Ignored.--As the twenty-fifth of December is observed to commemorate the birth of Christ, as the children have been instructed by precept and example that this was indeed a day of gladness and rejoicing, you will find it a difficult matter to pass over this period without giving it some attention. It can be made to serve a very good purpose." {AH 478.1}

[Woody]

Excellent Stan.

[Stan]

:) :)

[Gail]

Where's Lazarus? He needs to see this (not for him, but for a... situation)

[Woody]

Quote:

"Let us remember that Christmas is celebrated in commemoration of the birth of the world's Redeemer." Ellen White in MYP 311

[Stan]

goos stuff, thanks my friend.

[Woody]

Well some might disagree and bring forth volumes and volumes of work that they might feel contradicts. But when you actually read the pages and pages ... it really does not prove to go against what our prophet stated here. Merry Christmas.

[John317]

Manuscript Releases Volume Twenty-one [Nos. 1501-1598], Page 223

And Christmas will soon be here. It is supposed that Christ was born on the 25th day of December, and for that reason it is celebrated as His birthday. But it is impossible for us to know upon what day He was born. You can know no more about that than the children of Israel could know where Moses was buried. The reason God has not revealed that fact is because you would have worshiped that day, as they would have worshiped the grave of Moses had they found it, and this is just what they have done with the day they supposed was the one on which Christ was born.

Everybody is trying to find out how they can bring suitable gifts to one another. In the family the study is to know what next they can give. They have given something every year. Now what shall I give this year to the children, or to father and mother? But where are the Saviour’s poor? They are right before your doors.

And He will say unto them on His left hand, “I was an hungred, and ye gave Me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave Me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took Me not in: naked, and ye clothed Me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited Me not. Then shall they also answer Him, saying, Lord, when saw we Thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto Thee? Then shall He answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to Me.” Matthew 25:42-45.

Now, why is this so? It is because there is so much selfishness. Jesus Christ identified Himself with His suffering poor, and when we do the works of benevolence we are doing it unto Christ. I want to know how many of us are doing this kind of work. How many will keep Christmas aright? The wealthy bring gifts to their friends but they are rich still. Then how can this be a sacrifice to them? Then what shall we do to please God? I will tell you. If you would keep this day as you should, you would call upon the needy poor, and if they are in want of anything, supply that want.

[abelisle]

Jesus Christ identified Himself with His suffering poor, and when we do the works of benevolence we are doing it unto Christ. I want to know how many of us are doing this kind of work

I just spent this morning with my wife, some friends from church and others giving gifts to children in a homeless shelter in the S. Bronx. A truly satisfying and cool experience!

Spent 35 years teaching in this same area. As it is said, "the poor will always be with us." But although they might suffer from poverty, many of us are impoverished in other ways.

Brings to mind what Dick Gregory, a black comic said: "I might be poor but I'm not impoverished."

Alex

[Dr. Shane]

Manuscript Releases Volume Twenty-one [Nos. 1501-1598], Page 223

If you would keep this day as you should, you would call upon the needy poor, and if they are in want of anything, supply that want.

In our family, we do buy gifts for each other. However the thrust of the season is collecting toys for the poor and singing Christmas carols in neighborhoods and nursing homes.

[FLO]

If EGW was aware of this, I highly doubt she would have endorsed anything to do with this time of year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIEHCA1PaL0

[Neil D]

What makes you think that she wasn't aware of these things?

[Woody]

I wouldn't want to call our prophet ignorant.

[Kevin H]

I'm sorry Flo, but first many of these things were known in Mrs. White's time and some of these comments indicate that she was aware of them.

Second; as I have put in a few posts here (and for major references please read the December 2009 Biblical Archaeology Review and November-December Bible Review for either 2001, 2002 or 2003) that actually December 25 may not have come from Paganism, but from Jewish tradition about the birth of Isaac, the promised child, and how the church wanted to make Jesus a second Isaac and make Isaac a type of the true Baby conceived on Passover and born during this season-- where the days varied due to Hebrew calendar, but would occasionally fall on our December 25, such as the year the church changed from the Jewish to Roman calendar. (granted Jewish tradition still has it's problems and it does not make December 25 the birth of Jesus) but we need to be update with the newest discoveries of the ancient world.

Third; Be careful not to study the Bible too deeply otherwise you will be horrified by the origin of the feasts of the land, such a Passover, Yom Kipper, and temple items such as the Menorah, etc. They were the pagan festivals based on the agricultural cycle of Canaan, they were very much like this video with emphasis on the sexual organs, and people going to the temples to unite their life forces (orgies having sex with men, women, children and beasts, mixing together different grains, mixing together different textiles) While many of these aspects were forbidden for the Hebrews to follow; such as forbidding the orgies and the mixing together of the different grains and textiles (have you ever eaten Ezekiel 4:9 bread?) Yet, they had other elements such as the unleavened bread and the dinner at Passover, and the fasting and two goats of Yom Kipper were the exact same things thier pagan neighbors were doing the same day. The night that the Hebrews were released from Egypt was the night the Baal worshipers in Canaan were eating their unleavened bread and lamb as they had for centuries before Abraham was even born. The theology of the 2 goats at Yom Kipper comes right from the Canaanite fertility festival into the Bible and Judaism and the heart of Seventh-day Adventism. While there was much that Adam and Eve knew and Noah took on the ark that paganism still kept a memory of, the problem with applying those great truths to this practice is that this particular practice was too localized to a specific geography and the agricultural cycle of that small piece of land. What God did was to take the most important times of the year for the agricultural cycle; the times that the Hebrews would have been most tempted to join with their Baal worshiping neighbors, and giving them versions that instead of them uniting their life forces to help Baal, taught them to just rest in and trust Yahweh to get them through their cycles and encourage righteousness by faith and teach the plan of salvation. But despite how the Bible cleans up these festivals, it is still the same old horrible pagan fertility festivals that became the Bible's feasts of the land. God had about 359 other days of the year, why did he choose to release the Hebrews from Egypt on the night that the Baal worshipers in Canaan were having their unleavened bread and lamb?

Fourth; Ever study how the pagans celebrated Easter? On Easter Sunday morning they had the god who they saw as the chief god outside of the city and they would have a precession where the priests carrying the god would walk six steps and then the king, who was wearing only a holy linen vest and dancing before his god would stop and offer up a sacrifice of a bull and a fat calf. They would blow trumpets as the god entered the city and the king would offer whole burned offerings and fellowship offerings and the King would bless his people and give them a loaf of bread, a cake of dates and a cake of raisins (also known as Hot crossed buns) then the people were to go home to try to reproduce, and if the king and queen conceived after this festival then the child born would be the next king. If they did not have a child conceived on this ceremony then the other children would fight each other to see who should be king. Since God struck Uzzah when the Ark was coming on a wagon, why on earth did not God strike anyone when David was having a typical traditional Pagan fertility rite Easter Sunday service? (and this was a wider celebration than the feasts of the land.)

Fifth; The lady in your video also attacks the symbol of the cross. They found many Jewish graves with crosses on them, and in the dead sea scrolls there were a lot of Aleph's (the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet) and Tau's (the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet) and at that time the Tau was a cross. Upon further study the Aleph's were by texts that were talking about the eternal God. The Tau's were by texts seen as messianic and pertaining to end time. The cross was a Jewish symbol of the Messiah. Ok, so the cross was a Jewish symbol, just as the problems with December 25 being based on Jewish Tradition does not mean that we should follow it. The problem is that from this background and context we find that in Revelation when Jesus is saying "I am the Alpha and the Omega" that it is only a Greeking of this Hebrew practice, Jesus is saying I am the one who all the Aleph texts apply to, I am the Almighty God, the ancient of days, and likewise I am the one symbolized by the cross, the Messiah, the one who your hope is resting in for the last days. If we are to throw out the cross we need to cut out these verses from Revelation.

Therefore what we find in Mrs. White's comments is not ignorance of the supposed pagan history, but her doing the same thing that Moses did with the major festivals that he had to deal with. The same spirit lead them both and we should follow that spirit instead of feeling we are for ourselves by esteeming ourselves more highly than our brethren who are recognizing these seasons.

An additional issue is how the book of John ties the raisning of Lazarus and the focus on family relationships and to celebrate the hope of the grand reunion with our lost loved ones during the festival of Hanukkah, this season. Even if you don't want to recognize the birth of Jesus during this season, you are rejecting the Bible in it's teaching us to celebrate the family, spending time with family and celebrate that even death is not the end as the Resurrection and the Life will come (despite the apparent delay) and call our loved ones forth. We lost sight of the feasts, and thus lost sight that this is what John was teaching us to do and focus on with Hanukkah.

Whether to celebrate the birth of Jesus, or be strictly Biblical and celebrate family and the resurrection during this season, or both, let's use this season to focus on him who is the Resurrection and the life. Or even if you choose to not celebrate this season, at least don't celebrate the good news on how everyone else is going to hell in a handbasket. Lets not use this instead of using it to feed the sinfulnature, that attitude in us that thinks we are for ourselves by esteeming ourselves and making less of the outside world. "When we love the world as He[Jesus]has loved it then for us his mission is accomplished, we are fitted for heaven for we have heaven in our hearts"

[John317]

If EGW was aware of this, I highly doubt she would have endorsed anything to do with this time of year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIEHCA1PaL0

Disgusting. There was a time only a few years ago when I would have loved it. Now I hate it. Paganism is making a come-back, and I wouldn't be surprised if we don't witness similar things in this country, if they aren't already happening.