Obama to Bring "End of Life" Planning in Through the Back Door

[bonnie]

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Oh' date=' I doubt that.

You doubt what and based on what pesonel knowledge? Or are you so far above the ordinary you do not need any?

When I left the hospital following surgery fora perforated ulcer and days in ICU I was given a print out for services. I had 350.00 to pay for my co-pays.Insurance paid the rest without a quibble.

The last stroke my husband had was extremely serious.He had the best of care in three hospitals and we paid our then deductible of 2500.00 Inusrance picked up the rest withut a whimper.

Following my mother''s stroke and being sent for rehab for 6weeks to Denver we had a small co-pay that was ours. Her final cancer surgery also carried a very small co-pay and againt the insurance paid without a whimper.Nor did we pay a penny for ther radiation

Unlike you I do not expext a insurance company to open it's doors with the sole thought of how many they can provide for.

Any profit a insurance company makes does not come from premiums but investments of those premiums.So if it comes down to believing Shane who has a obvious bias towards thoe that make money he doesn't approve of or my Dr and our own many experiences I certainly would not take your word for it.YOU DO NOT HAVE A RIGHT TO HEALTH CARE,you have a right to work for it.If one job isn't enough,do what many of us have done and get a second job

Why don't you open a business and let it be known you are against making a profit.

No one in this country OWES you anything except freedom.If you can't pay for insurance for your family DON"T have children.

From a secualr standpoint you have a right to apply for a job,you do not have right to that job.I don't qwe you that job or a paycheck

If you have a drivers license,you have a right to own a caro,IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY TO PURCHASE.You have a right to purchase a home but do it on your nickel,not mine.

Your children have a to a college education as long as you or they get off the backside and pay for it.

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Those insurance companies have their death panels filled with CPAs, MBAs and PhDs all dedicated to see how little they can pay out. They are not in the business of helping people. They are in the business of making money. Praise our loving Father in heaven and His gracious Son, Jesus Christ, we have a government that oversees insurance companies and protects the consumer.

Has it entered your lofty brain if the insurance company does not make money it will be a little tough tp pay claims

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Praise our loving Father in heaven and His gracious Son, Jesus Christ, we have a government that oversees insurance companies and protects the consumer[/quote']

In terms of the worship of Obama it is pretty old.I tink it was "there buster" referred to it as actually scary

[Dr. Shane]

I didn't mention Obama. The government has been regulating and overseeing insurance companies' death panels long before Obama was even in diapers. All those wonderful things they have covered for so many people, well,,, we can thank the government for that. The insurance companies are highly regulated. They are an evil. We need to grasp that concept. Government is also an evil. So we have to evils holding each other in check.

[bonnie]

I didn't mention Obama. The government has been regulating and overseeing insurance companies' death panels long before Obama was even in diapers. All those wonderful things they have covered for so many people, well,,, we can thank the government for that. The insurance companies are highly regulated. They are an evil. We need to grasp that concept. Government is also an evil. So we have to evils holding each other in check.

I couldn't care less what Obama did whilr in diapers.

Any business that makes money not apptovrf by you is evil. The insurance companies did not start up to take care of you without a premium paid.

The evil indurance company has not lied repeatedly like your hero Obama.One of his bigger whoppers was HE made it so insurance companies vould not drop coverage when a serious illness struck.

He is the dishonest hero that said,"ot to worry,if you like your plan you can keep it. Those far smarter than you have found out how untrue that is.

The coverage for the poor little kddies practically dropping in the streets is being cut by isurance more every day.

The insurance companies pay out according to the contract you sign and paying your premiums.

Of course with Oama at the helm npne of the poor dupes did to bother reading.

If I have a choice between the evil of Obama and the evil of insurance my choice certainly won't be the evil of Obama

[Dr. Shane]

The evil insurance company has not lied repeatedly like your hero Obama.

All one has to do is make a list of all the court cases that have been brought against insurance companies when they have lost. It is scary. Anyone thinking that insurance companies are looking out for their clients is living in the land of make-believe. Insurance companies were busy selling life insurance to Jews in Germany and Poland even as Hitler was exterminating them! Insurance companies have been guilty of some of the greatest scandals in the history of the world. Like government, they are a necessary evil. Let's not sugar-coat the world and pretend that insurance companies are somehow interested in the good of their clients. They are interested in the good of the investor. We need government to oversee and regulate insurance companies. I would be concerned with eliminating insurance companies from the health-care industry because who would hold government in check if the insurance companies are out of the picture?

[bonnie]

All one has to do is make a list of all the court cases that have been brought against insurance companies when they have lost. It is scary. Anyone thinking that insurance companies are looking out for their clients is living in the land of make-believe.

[Dr. Shane]

Let's compare them to frivilous lawsuits.Remember the hot coffee from McDonalds.

There is a fine example of a strawman. The frivilous law suit against McDonalds has nothing to do with healthcare insurance or the insurance industry in general.

The issue isn't the insurance companies honoring a contract agreement. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. The issue is that the insurance agent sells a policy to a client and the client signs a legal document without their own legal council to advise them. Then the client gets sick and the insurance company's death panel decides they won't treat the illness or provide a drug or treatment because "it's not covered." The insurance company's attitude is "it sucks to be you." but at least we can report a profit to the investors "ain't life grand."

[there buster]

Quote:

The frivilous law suit against McDonalds has nothing to do with healthcare insurance or the insurance industry in general.

Actually it does. One of the causes of high cost of health care is the high cost of malpractice insurance. And that cost is related to sympathetic juries figuring "the Insurance Company has plenty of money," and so they aware ridiculous punitive damages in cases where there isn't any real malpractice. John Edwards made millions on bogus cerebral palsy suits.

A limit on punitive damages would dramatically reduce the cost of malpractice insurance, which would in turn reduce the cost of medical care.

[Dr. Shane]

. One of the causes of high cost of health care is the high cost of malpractice insurance.

That is out of the context of what we were talking about. The law suits I was talking about are not patients suing doctors but rather patients suing the insurance companies themselves. There are thousands of such cases from all over the world that show how corrupt and misleading insurance companies are. They are a necessary evil and conservatives should treat them with the same type of apprehension they have for government.

In Texas we have passed tort reform and it has brought down the price of malpractice insurance considerably here. So that is not much of an issue in Texas any more.

[phkrause]

One of the causes of high cost of health care is the high cost of malpractice insurance. And that cost is related to sympathetic juries figuring "the Insurance Company has plenty of money," and so they aware ridiculous punitive damages in cases where there isn't any real malpractice.

A limit on punitive damages would dramatically reduce the cost of malpractice insurance, which would in turn reduce the cost of medical care.

Truer words on this thread and a few others, have never been more correct. When my dad died 12 years ago of a heart attack, many were pushing my Mom to sue the Doctors. I do agree that insurance companies are a necessary evil, but all these lawsuits are rediculess(sp). But you see on the tube all these lawyers advertising for people who have this or that problem to come in and they will get them the money the deserve. Now not wanting to offend the lawyers on this site but many lawyers are also to blame for the high cost of healthcare. Unfortunately the government is also to blame for not being able to work together and fix this mess.

[there buster]

Quote:

That is out of the context of what we were talking about. The law suits I was talking about are not patients suing doctors but rather patients suing the insurance companies themselves.

Here's the context to which I responded

Quote:

The frivilous law suit against McDonalds has nothing to do with healthcare insurance or the insurance industry in general.

So yes, it is in context.

[Jeannieb43]

Now not wanting to offend the lawyers on this site but many lawyers are also to blame for the high cost of healthcare.

You don't offend me by making this statement. During the 22 years I was engaged in the practice of law, I never once took a malpractice case against a doctor. There are some shyster lawyers who drum up lots of cases by using TV ads, etc. They're the scum of the earth, IMHO.

[Dr. Shane]

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That is out of the context of what we were talking about.

Here's the context to which I responded

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The frivilous law suit against McDonalds has nothing to do with healthcare insurance or the insurance industry in general.

So yes, it is in context.

Now I think that quote is being lifted out of context. Again, I was talking about law suits against insurance companies that show the insurance companies have less than noble motives. The issue being dealt with was not law suits against doctors or even dealing with the cost of health care.

I think everyone, accept maybe the trial lawyers, agree the frivolous law suits increase the cost of medical care.

[phkrause]

You don't offend me by making this statement. During the 22 years I was engaged in the practice of law, I never once took a malpractice case against a doctor. There are some shyster lawyers who drum up lots of cases by using TV ads, etc. They're the scum of the earth, IMHO.

Well I'm glad about that. That's why I don't like to make general statements about any group. Because there are good and bad in every profession.

[bonnie]

Now I think that quote is being lifted out of context. Again, I was talking about law suits against insurance companies that show the insurance companies have less than noble motives. The issue being dealt with was not law suits against doctors or even dealing with the cost of health care.

Can you give even a short list where insurance companies have been sued for not honoring the written contract? I am sure some exist.Generally it does in any business.Is it enough to plague this nation with Obamacare.Please don't answer with the typical "everyone knows it's true"

Insurance compamies are not required to have noble motives.

They are only required to honor the policy requirements.

[Dr. Shane]

Obama himself has talked about fighting with insurance companies to provide treatment for his mother. I already gave the example of insurance companies selling life insurance to Jews in Poland and Germany while the Nazis were exterminating them.

Jury Awards $7.4 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit Against Humana HMO

Parents File Lawsuit Against Insurance Company For Denying Baby's Treatment

Blue Cross Agrees to Settlement in Antiracketeering Lawsuit

Texas Medical Association joins lawsuit against CIGNA, Aetna

Allstate Loses Bad Faith Insurance Lawsuit Appeal

NY Hospitals File RICO Lawsuits Against ...s#ixzz1AsOPggOu

Doctors in Class Action Lawsuit Against ...l#ixzz1AsNS0z1Q

[bonnie]

Obama himself has talked about fighting with insurance companies to provide treatment for his mother. I already gave the example of insurance companies selling life insurance to Jews in Poland and Germany while the Nazis were exterminating them.

Jury Awards $7.4 Million in Wrongful Death Lawsuit Against Humana HMO

Parents File Lawsuit Against Insurance Company For Denying Baby's Treatment

Blue Cross Agrees to Settlement in Antiracketeering Lawsuit

Texas Medical Association joins lawsuit against CIGNA, Aetna

Allstate Loses Bad Faith Insurance Lawsuit Appeal

NY Hospitals File RICO Lawsuits Against ...s#ixzz1AsOPggOu

Doctors in Class Action Lawsuit Against ...l#ixzz1AsNS0z1Q

Witj the millions that have insurance and have their bills taken care of promptly what you hve posted appears to be a drop in the bucket.

If it was worth my time I could give you a far more impressive list of when the SDA chruch acted less than noble and lied to prevent being sued or pay as little as possible

That doesn't mean I want all chruches punished or under the the watchful thumb of the government.

We have courts to take care of these issues.I would trust any court before trusting Obama

If I remember right it was that bleeding heart you so admire that thought it would be appropriate to give granny a pill and send her home

There is a reason many Dr's are no longer accepting medicare patients and are suggesting to get any elective surgery you may have coming up until we know what will happen with medicare under Obama to make sure it gets done

He is from another country and well understands the glries of Obama style medical care.When it comes to who beleive.my Dr,Shane and Obama care,No contest

[Dr. Shane]

Witj the millions that have insurance and have their bills taken care of promptly what you hve posted appears to be a drop in the bucket.

It is just a drop in the bucket. Or more like a drop in the ocean. There simply thousands and thousands of cases that can be shown of insurance companies ripping off everyone they deal with.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

Witj the millions that have insurance and have their bills taken care of promptly what you hve posted appears to be a drop in the bucket.

It is just a drop in the bucket. Or more like a drop in the ocean. There simply thousands and thousands of cases that can be shown of insurance companies ripping off everyone they deal with.

Most claims are paid whne submitted. You break your leg,need sudden surgery they pay

Of course there are crooks in the insurance comoany as in every business.It does work best if the contract is clearly understood.

I am a lot more concerned about the conduct of Rrisk Management and the battle they put up.Or ehrn they hire outside ayyorney's ro do their dirty work.Knowing bryond s doubt their client was guity from the start,That only took

them five years ti do the right thing