My world must change.......

[Neil D]

Quote:

Ever wondered whether one of the reasons men get fed up with the church might be the endless bickering?

Stan-

Ok, I am done....

I've been here long enough to see this place go from a place of interesting disscussion to a hang-out for ubber conservatives...from the mighty religous to the secretive secular, those posts were fun...I've seen some very creative people here to the trolls who haunt and feed on the creative posts and turn it into something ugly...

As you know, there are people here who must feed on others, who are the religious tares, who can not help but trash the intention of the blessings of the poster,,.....i have tried to conjole them, to reason with them, to even plead with them...all to no avail...and unknown to me, I was becoming changed...slowly I was becoming more bitter, cynical, and angrier .....

I've felt that, at one time, I was contributing to this community...and that has been several years back..At the time, I would see timid people who have valid points back down to aggressively angry overly religious people...I became distressed over how some were treated here.... but over the last 4 years, I can not but cry as this place has become my own personal 'trolling feed yard' in which I could pounce and brutalize some of these who so desperately need it.

This last 6 months, I have banned myself from a couple of times...and come back more angrier at the outragious things said, even from people who know better...

I've seen my posts increasingly go from creative to hurtful in a heartbeat...and I am tired of it....Something's got to change....That change must be me because ClubAdventist will not.

The saying is true...by beholding, you become changed. and I changed....I became a troll looking for trolls....and I refuse to be this way anymore....

I hearby resign all my positions...And I request that my name be removed from the bbs so that i can not log on to this BBs anymore. Place me among the persona non-grata and gift me with banishment...

Stan, I do wish that you would take out the trolls in this BBS. You are the master in this domain...and while you have done much to allow free expression, I think you should insist on tighter standards and higher creative writing skills...and insist that the board insist on higher quality responsible citizens here who are far more interested in the welfare of this board than trolling and wasting resources. Someone that I am not...quality, that is...

I wish you and all my friends well...

[cricket]

Neil, I will miss you. Please, if you're able to check your personal messages, read mine before you go. ~Cricket

[Bravus]

You'll be missed, mate. Hope you're able to take a long and healthy hiatus and return refreshed... and I hope Stan will park your account rather than delete it. Check for a PM from me as well.

[LynnDel]

Arrrrgh. I think I can understand your feelings, Neil. It seems a lot of us have become less positive in recent times. I don't know the cause. Is it due to the world around us, negative posters, or is it coming from within? You're doing to CA what I do to chocolates when they are in the house -- I make them inaccessible so as to stay out of trouble. But even when I do triple wrap my chocolates and put them in the back of the freezer under something big and heavy, I can still get to them now and then. I wish you would plan on coming back now and then, avoid the fray, have fun, and maybe aim for brightening a small corner of the negative areas by making a resolution to post one positive thought per day. I know, you've already tried it. Yes, someone will shoot you down for making the effort (it's happened to me, too), because somehow that has become the point of their pitiful little lives, but so many who say nothing appreciate the effort, and you never know whom you've touched.

LynnDel

[Liz]

NOOOOOOO!!!!!! {hyperventilating} You can't leave! We need you! I hope that you take your hiatus, and then come back. You will be so missed. You just can't stay away forever. ((((Hugs)))) {I have to go find a paper bag now}

[John317]

No, Bravus, I won't delete it.

But I would like to ask Neil a question: who are the trolls or other people he would like Stan to "take out"? And is it possible there are people who would like to see Neil "taken out"? My point is that I bet if you asked everyone who they would like to see "taken out," it would be all different people, and some of the ones would be the very ones who talk about how certain people should be "taken out."

Personally I would like to see everyone stay on the Forum, including Neil. I really think it's possible to love everyone and to talk to everyone, but it requires people being able to set aside their emotions and their pride. Neil's talk about "conservatives" is the very kind of talk that our church does not need. Both convervatives and liberals are not only SDAs but also children of God. We may differ with such people, but so what? If we can't differ with people and still love them and want to be with them, then I'm afraid we won't be in heaven, because in heaven we will have differences of opinion and viewpoint with other people, but we will also love everyone.

That's a big and important lesson that Advdentist Forum should teach all of us. It appears to me that Neil D wants a heaven where there are no conservatives-- or at least where the conservatives are not too obvious.

I would like to appeal to Neil to think it over carefully and come on back. We can meet again at the Spagetthi Factory, and I'll buy. But this time, Neil, take the picture of our faces and not of our backsides. lol

Hey, come on, Neil-- didn't the three of us have a good time and good conversation? We must have because the three of us stayed around afterwards talking to each other a long time outside in the cold without even giving it a thought. That's a sign of friendship.

[Jeannieb43]

Hey! Have you two (three?) actually MET, in 3-D, and had dinner together at the Spaghetti Factory??!

I think that's great. This is a true group of like-minded friends. I like reading everybody's posts -- and if occasionally some don't happen to appeal to me, I just skip over them and go to something else.

Neil, please don't leave us permanently. Just take a breather if you must. This is a great group here. I keep coming back for more discussion. Sorta like having my own "Cheers."

[Neil D]

No, Bravus, I won't delete it.

But I would like to ask Neil a question: who are the trolls or other people he would like Stan to "take out"? And is it possible there are people who would like to see Neil "taken out"? My point is that I bet if you asked everyone who they would like to see "taken out," it would be all different people, and some of the ones would be the very ones who talk about how certain people should be "taken out."

[John317]

Hey Neil, I really do hope you'll change your mind. Please forgive me if I have ever said anything to make you want to go. I honestly would love to get together again and talk over a good meal that'll be all on me. Send me email if you ever want to do that sometime. I promise I'm no different than I was that night and it doesn't matter to me if you've changed. I still love you as a fellow believer.

[John317]

You LIKE debate...you like it so much that you like being right in your debating, John...

Wow-- you couldn't be more wrong. What I like and am passionate about is conversations, dialogue, and sincere and honest exchanges of views, but I really detest debate in the ordinary sense. In most debates, neither side is really interested in truth but in winning. I wouldn't take part in such an exchange. I view the dialectic-- the question and answer form-- as the best way to arrive at truth. But that is far different from debate. It would be like the difference between a Socratic dialogue and a monologue. I'll take the dialogue any day over the debate.

So far as I know, Ellen White acknowledged the good that was done at only one debate-- in Australia, regardisng the Sabbath--- but beyond that, she condemned debating. It encourages wrong attitudes not only about the people involved but also about the truth.

[John317]

Hey! Have you two (three?) actually MET, in 3-D, and had dinner together at the Spaghetti Factory??!

Yeah, we did, and it was great. It was me and Neil D and Cyberguy. We talked for over an hour while waiting for others to come, but no one else showed up. I was hoping Taylor would come, but she moved away just a while before. So we three had a wonderful meal and talked, and then continued the conversation for about an hour outside.

[John317]

...but things have changed....I have changed....and I must be on my way...Do not keep me here...I will become worse...I need to go for MY benefit....I do not want to be a troll any longer....And trolls don't belong here on C/A. Including me.....

Tell you what then, Neil D, if you feel you have to go, go well and without anger, and please do come back when you feel you're ready. I think I can guarantee you that everybody here will be ready to welcome you back.

[LifeHiscost]

Stan....According to you and Gail, and what you have relayed to me in private conversations, I cause more problems that I am worth....Therefore, I need to be removed....As an example to all here.....that trolls don't belong....

It seems to me that somewhere in the Bible it talks about iron sharpening iron.

A time or two I've allowed my emotions tell me what to do and regretted the decisions. OTOH I've sometimes let my logic, without a consultation with united wisdom, make a choice I eventually regretted.

Then other times I've considered a decision and sat on it until a "reasonable" amount of time passed to ponder the decision. It seems when I did that, while I didn't always keep the same idea in mind, the final decision was made when I felt better and I didn't regret that final choice.

Out of that progression of alternatives I've drawn the conclusion, never to make an important decision when I was feeling down.

It hasn't made me richer,(well I can't really say that), but it has made some friends I wouldn't have now if I'd followed my gut feeling to act while down in the dumps. And it has also allowed me to see some others reveal more of the things everyone admired about them, if they had patience enough to stay around long enough to keep me from chasing them away because of too much thoughtlessness on my part.

In the end, everyone needs to make their own decisions, even when God is known to be their most trusted Friend and Counselor.

God blesses!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Just a sidenote: Facebook began in 2004, and has become bigger and bigger ever since that time. It is very easy to find someone's name via Facebook, so it is easy to know who ones' friends are on the Forum. If you aren't asked, or if your request is turned down, you know you aren't in the "in" group. I'm not in the "in" group. That hurts. It's very difficult to sit here and read things that people talk about, saying that the others "know" what they are referring to.

BTW, those of you who have been my friends and now look like I de-friended you, that's not what happened. I had a weird FB glitch a few months ago and it de-friended nearly everyone on my list, family included. I've tried to catch up, but I have been very ill, and it's sometimes more than I can do to even eat some days.

**Back to topic**

Neil, I hope you don't leave. I've become cynical too. I'm not sure why. Perhaps I've gotten disgusted with some of the topics that seem so mundane and/or are irrelevant to my interests. Don't know for sure. I've tried to pick out some things that I thought would be of general interest to the Forum, but don't think anyone looks at them. **shrugs** I guess that's okay. I'm used to being ignored.

[phkrause]

Come Neil, you say you've changed! Well I'm one that doesn't buy that for one minute. Been here as long as you maybe longer, have not notice if you have. Some times we run in to people that just rub us the wrong way. That doesn't mean we leave the area. I remember a number of years ago there was this guy that made the hair on my neck stand up any time I saw, heard, etc., him. I decided to not go to that church. As I was sitting home one day I said to myself, wait a minute he's not gonna run me off. So I just started going back. Like many have said, take a break for awhile or just ignore those that just want to argue no matter what is said. I for one think you're bigger than they are. Or are you one that likes to dish it out but can't take it? I don't think so, so I expect to see you either taking a short break or not going anywhere. Whatever decission you make is up to you, obviously. Anyway have a great New Years weekend.

[Gerr]

Come on! And deprive me of that kid from the comic strip which you have represented well? YOU CAN'T DO THAT!!!!!!

[Stan]

Quote:

Stan....According to you and Gail, and what you have relayed to me in private conversations, I cause more problems that I am worth....Therefore, I need to be removed....As an example to all here.....that trolls don't belong....

I have no idea what you are talking about here.

[Stan]

So often the problem arrises when others do not live up to our expectations.

The best thing remains, is to make comments on your thoughts, dreams and passions, and understand that several will not have the same view, you can not change them as they are also frustrated that you will not think more like them.

[Stan]

I have changed your account to that of a regular users, to remove it messes up the database.

Have done the same thing to a couple of others who have requested the same over the past week or so.

[Stan]

and if you read this, be assured, you will be missed by myself and many others.

[Nan]

Like the others say Neil, I am sorry you feel this way....and hope to see

you round some place...Blessings.

[Stan]

be it right or wrong..

This is not going to be a

"Stan only approved poster" forum,

nor a "Neil only approved poster" forum,

nor a "Bonnie only approved poster" forum

etc

etc

[bonnie]

be it right or wrong..

This is not going to be a

"Stan only approved poster" forum,

nor a "Neil only approved poster" forum,

nor a "Bonnie only approved poster" forum

etc

etc

I wasn't aware I had said anything or requested it to be Bonnie only approved poster" forum

[GreatLakesGramma]

Neil, if you're still reading this, I agree, you need to go. If it's affecting you like that, you MUST go. I've been there. I don't think you were around during the VOAF days, but I was one of the earliest members, and one of the most active. When I realized it was influencing me in the same way that you have described, I left, permanently, and never looked back.

For the same reason, I don't spend a lot of time here anymore either. I've chosen, some time back, to avoid the controversial topics entirely, and participate only in the sociable topics.

Maybe someday you can do the same. But whether you should ever come back, only you can know.

[John317]

I wasn't aware I had said anything or requested it to be Bonnie only approved poster" forum

I can't really speak for Stan, but I think it's likely Stan didn't mean it that way. He probably could just as easily have picked my name or Richard Holbrook or any number of other people.