Hospitals

[Stan]

Is it just me, or have hospital gone from compassion to big business?

[John317]

Is that different from what most of them have been for quite a while now? What have you noticed or seen recently that has caused you to believe there's been a change in that way?

[bonnie]

Is it just me, or have hospital gone from compassion to big business?

If hospital administration does not watch the business end,there won't be much compassion to distribute.

I have spent far more time the past 6 months with Dr's and hospitals than anytime in my life.The staff could not have been kinder or more concerned. Still got that nasty bill that said they needed to be paid for the service they provided for me.

The last was knee replacement and for some reason I had absolutely no pain and was able to walk stairs the next day.I kept refusing pain meds and yet every couple of hours the nurse was there afraid that my pain had started and they did not want me in pain that was unnecessary.

Frequently came to fluff pillows and see if I was warm enough.

The only thing I think they didn't try to do for me was sit and hold my hand.Yet,the business end goes on and they need to be paid or do what they can to try to recoup as much as possible

[bonnie]

Is that different from what most of them have been for quite a while now? What have you noticed or seen recently that has caused you to believe there's been a change in that way?

Something has to give in the medical field,especially medicare.

Dr's are refusing new medicare patients because they can't even break even with their cost.My brother lives in Wy and the area where he is there are no Dr's that will accept medicare patients for a radius of 75 miles.

If you have extensive medical procedures and are on medicare take a good look at what they are paid. My last bill for the anesthesiologist was 1850.00,he was actually paid by medicare 165.00.After all those years of schooling and training,the heavy responsibility,if you had your salary cut that much wonder what would happen to your compassion?

The in home nurse they send out the first day or two was paid more at 175.00.While I think they provide a valuable service I want my anesthesiologist on the ball,fully engaged and at the moment caring only for my health.165.00 doesn't seem quite to cut it

[Gerr]

Is it just me, or have hospital gone from compassion to big business?

I am fully aware of the dilemma. I had to hospitalize a patient once who weighed almost 500 lbs for respiratory failure. He had no insurance. The utilization review nurse wanted me to transfer the patient stat. He needed to have a CAT scan, but no hospital was willing to accept the patient. For one thing, none of them had a CT scanner big enough to accommodate him. The UR nurse really got on my case. Her argument was: nobody put a gun to the patient's head to get himself into the 500 lb mess of trouble. Since this was a private hospital, I understood how important the bottom line was. No hospital can continue to provide services very long and compassionately while operating in the red. However, I also reminded her that we were also in the business of compassion and saving lives, and that we can't turn away people for every self-inflicted predicament that they were in.

[Stan]

Wonder how many semi-invisible like heart disease are just as self inflicted?

[Gerr]

I would say, most of the diseases and predicaments we suffer from are self-inflicted in one way or another.

[Jeannieb43]

I heard someone say once that if it were not for our lifestyle habits, our bodies would be able to live a hundred years. But our eating, drinking, lack of exercise, etc., make us ill and we wear out the machinery.

[Woody]

If your machinery is wearing out .... just apply a little oil.

I recommend Flaxseed Oil. I use it every day.

[bonnie]

If your machinery is wearing out .... just apply a little oil.

I recommend Flaxseed Oil. I use it every day.

I wonder what would happen to the compassion of most of us if faced with what some of the Dr's,hospitals are.I was on the orthapedic floor and seemed to be the youngest so medicare would have been an issue.There were several patients all for similar issues.

If you went to school for years,skimped and saved to make it,then pay thehuge malpractise insurance and then charged 1850.00 for your services. Someone comes along and says,Nope,for these you will get only 165.00.As you raise your families,pay mortgages and education how big would your smile and compassion be

[GreatLakesGramma]

Don't forget the 6-figure student loans most doctors have to repay, Bonnie. Or the ungodly hours they have to keep, and the stress that causes doctors to die younger than the general population.

[Gordon1]

Wonder how many semi-invisible like heart disease are just as self inflicted?

Most certainly self-inflicted.

[MariaS]

Hi Gerry,

If you are a Physician (which most likely you are) you are the very few and rare Christian doctor who has the compasion of Christ. I know how difficult it is to stand in the middle of "doing what is ethical, right or suporting the organization" regulations. In both ways it could be seen as right or wrong equally.

sadly to say, there are many adventist hospitals bearing the mission statement of "continuing the healing ministry of Christ" but do little as Jesus did. What we as individual may/can do is to continue to share the spark of Jesus's love and healing ministry in our own way (at times againts organisation regulations) either as a nurse, doctor or hospital supporting staff such as what you did.

God bless your caring heart

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

Is it just me, or have hospital gone from compassion to big business?

I am fully aware of the dilemma. I had to hospitalize a patient once who weighed almost 500 lbs for respiratory failure. He had no insurance. The utilization review nurse wanted me to transfer the patient stat. He needed to have a CAT scan, but no hospital was willing to accept the patient. For one thing, none of them had a CT scanner big enough to accommodate him. The UR nurse really got on my case. Her argument was: nobody put a gun to the patient's head to get himself into the 500 lb mess of trouble. Since this was a private hospital, I understood how important the bottom line was. No hospital can continue to provide services very long and compassionately while operating in the red. However, I also reminded her that we were also in the business of compassion and saving lives, and that we can't turn away people for every self-inflicted predicament that they were in.

[Woody]

Don't forget the 6-figure student loans most doctors have to repay, Bonnie. Or the ungodly hours they have to keep, and the stress that causes doctors to die younger than the general population.

The exact same thing can be said for pastors. :)

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGramma

Don't forget the 6-figure student loans most doctors have to repay, Bonnie. Or the ungodly hours they have to keep, and the stress that causes doctors to die younger than the general population.

The exact same thing can be said for pastors.

Not quite.I have a high degree of respect for pastors but they can offer compassion without the cost of MRI's,hospital beds,a host of medical personel to be paid.Pastor's certainly have their share of stress to be sure.

Not one ounce of compassion would have replaced my knee. That took,years of training,thousands in fees of all kinds.

Compassion is wonderful and needed. But for the pain of the last year give me a well trained Dr with or without compassion.

Compassion did not train him to replace my knee,expensive training did that

[Woody]

Bonnie. I was referring to the four things listed:

1.) 6-figure student loans

2.) Un-godly hours

3.) stress

4.) dying younger than the general population

Which of the four do you think pastor's don't have?

[bonnie]

Bonnie. I was referring to the four things listed:

6-figure student loans

Un-godly hours

stress

dying younger than the general population

Which of the four do you think pastor's don't have?

I am sure they do have very large loans

Stress,of course. Not quite the same kind and I don't think on a daily basis.Any Dr knows one wrong decision,misdiagnosis there may not be a second chance.

Pastors can be wrong but rarely does their wrong decision end in instant death. There can be second chances.

I know far older pastors than Dr's if that is some kind of test.

My first grade teacher/pastor just passed away.Hate to tell you how many years ago I was in first grade

[Woody]

Quote:

Not quite the same kind and I don't think on a daily basis.Any Dr knows one wrong decision,misdiagnosis there may not be a second chance.

Pastors can be wrong but rarely does their wrong decision end in instant death.

Pastors have to be concerned that a mistake could encourage eternal death which is of much more concern than this present few years that we might have on earth.

[phkrause]

Good point Woody, This is what God wanted the people of Israel to be to all there neighbors. To be priests and to show them how a people that God had dedicated to himself. And what did he say about Prophets, leaders, etc. that would lead there people astray? I know doctors, nurses, etc. have much stress, but our ministers, pastors, etc. are responsible to God, I would say much more stressful in my mind.

[Woody]

Well pk. My comment was that the exact thing could be said of pastors. I didn't mean to make it a competition thing. :)

[phkrause]

Well pk. My comment was that the exact thing could be said of pastors. I didn't mean to make it a competition thing.

Yes I got that Woody.

[bonnie]

Well pk. My comment was that the exact thing could be said of pastors. I didn't mean to make it a competition thing.

This started because of this......Is it just me, or have hospital gone from compassion to big business

Take busimess out of hospitals and fill it with compassion.What do you think would happen? I didn't need or want compassion,I wanted my blame knee fixed.That took MONEY for all involved.

Woody,how much compassion would your wife have before it began to fail if......

Say she earns 1850.00 per week. Several parishoners decide her "compassion" was only worth 165.00 for the week.

That must take care of all expesnses

[Woody]

Bonnie. I was referring to the four things listed:

1.) 6-figure student loans

2.) Un-godly hours

3.) stress

4.) dying younger than the general population

Which of the four do you think pastor's don't have?

[bonnie]

Bonnie. I was referring to the four things listed:

1.) 6-figure student loans

2.) Un-godly hours

3.) stress

4.) dying younger than the general population

Which of the four do you think pastor's don't have?

It is not a question of who has to deal with stress. I have two sons that are nursing home administrators,they can tell you about stress.

Large loans,ungodly hours,they are never free even on vacation.

I hope they don't die younger than the rest of the population.

It is very easy to critizie Dr's and hospitals.

Compassion pays nothing of what must be paid.

More than once my sons have spent the night with a dying patient.Families do not always bother to come. After a compassionate night with a scared lonely old person,they still need to pay their staff and all related expenses.

Compassion does not pay the expenses

[LifeHiscost]

It is not a question of who has to deal with stress. I have two sons that are nursing home administrators,they can tell you about stress.

Large loans,ungodly hours,they are never free even on vacation.

I hope they don't die younger than the rest of the population.

It is very easy to critizie Dr's and hospitals.

Compassion pays nothing of what must be paid.

More than once my sons have spent the night with a dying patient.Families do not always bother to come. After a compassionate night with a scared lonely old person,they still need to pay their staff and all related expenses.

Compassion does not pay the expenses

However if it weren't for compassion, many of the doctors wouldn't be there.

I knew of one doctor who decided some years ago to go where his compassion was, took up practice in if I'm not mistaken, south central LA, where much of the business of medical practice is taking care of bullet wounds and other similar health issues.

His income dropped from around $60,000 annually to $20,000. I don't know whether he had a family to support. Perhaps that was one of the things he sacrificed.

OTOH, I'm having trouble finding a heart of compassion to recognize the need for me to have compassion for the doctors.

Especially when, of the more than 11 different surgical procedures done for my wife, at least two saved her life while one saved her legs or feet and one avoided an ostomy.

Ironic that the emergency procedures to save her life were to correct damage done by previous and different medical

procedures of which she must face as a result, barring a miracle, severe pain for the rest of her life.

This being only anecdotal, it seems entirely necessary and important to recognize that no matter how important the position, success comes only by the grace of God and humans make mistakes, of which doctor's mistakes have more of a risk of ending in death than most other occupations.

Those that must submit to the arbitrarily chosen medical personnel for their health issues, would be wise to pray a lot for compassion for and of the doctors, lest there be any question of their undivided effort to save the patient.

This I have found in the medical personnel at the three different Adventist hospitals where my wife had privilege to stay for a short time, and at one or two other institutions which were of other persuasions, although one particular one seemed to resent the perceived needs of the patient, to the patients great known distress.

"Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends."John 15:13 KJV

God blesses! :