Group Expects World to Begin to End on May 21, 2011

[steve9534]

Henry;

Let me say that the hour (singular)of His judgement has come. It doesn't say hours (plural) as you have concluded. Neither is there a verse which suggests that the 12 hour day you talk of should be combined with the thousand years mentioned later in the NT. Not every number mentioned in the Bible is an encoded prophecy relating to the end of time. I see no reason to understand Jesus mention of the number of hours of daylight in a day as referring to the length of time between the beginning of the investigative judgement and the end of time. You have chosen to do exactly as EGW cautioned we not do and set dates when she clearly has stated that there were no more prophetic time periods to be fulfilled. You can't pick and choose which of her statements you will believe and what you will reject and expect to have a coherent theology. I think we all believe Jesus will come soon, but the repeated setting of dates which then prove incorrect will only lead to discouragement and disillusionment. The message can stand on it's own merits w/o the need for specific dates. steve.

[Woody]

Quote:

I think we all believe Jesus will come soon, but the repeated setting of dates which then prove incorrect will only lead to discouragement and disillusionment.

[doug yowell]

Quote:

I think we all believe Jesus will come soon, but the repeated setting of dates which then prove incorrect will only lead to discouragement and disillusionment.

Or time wasted on repeated recalculations (i.e.Harold Camping).

[hch]

Henry;

Let me say that the hour (singular)of His judgement has come.

[hch]

Quote:

I think we all believe Jesus will come soon, but the repeated setting of dates which then prove incorrect will only lead to discouragement and disillusionment.

Or time wasted on repeated recalculations (i.e.Harold Camping).

Probably the wrong day and hour, but not too far away

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/425907/Re_Egypt.html#Post425907

[teresaq]

No one has replied to this? I discovered this in October. There is a website called www.wecanknow.com. They believe the rapture will occur on this date, and they are publishing ads, billboards and the like all across our nation and even a few in other countries stating this. What will happen when Jesus doesn't return on that date? Or, what will happen when he appears to return on that date? We don't know what will or won't happen on that date (05/21/11) but it is clear that the final events are beginning to unfold.

I strongly feel that things in the world are about to change very soon and very quickly. Satan has a false for every true. He knows his time is short. Prophecies are being fulfilled before our very eyes. Just look at Egypt.

snipped

This person has been "teaching" this for at least a couple of years now. He is the owner, president and chairman of a radio station I've listened to since the '70s. He first calculated by his mysterious, complicated calculations that Christ would return in '94, but had excuses for that not coming to pass.

At first he was pretty much in line with much of our thinking and I have reason to believe he studied Ellen White--due to his remarks--but since he rejected her he has really gone off the deep end more and more so.

I am quite curious as to what will happen to his radio station when this does not happen. I still appreciate the hymns and some of the sermonettes presented.

Apparently, he was a regular member of a church til his '94 calculations were proven wrong by not a few. It seems that in bitterness he decided all the churches were babylon and no one can be saved if they go to church. He says God is not saving anyone in the church-you have to leave to be saved. He has quite a bit to say...but what really amazes me are the people following him hook, line and sinker. His radio station is international...

And yes, it will be interesting to see if anything does happen May 21.

[steve9534]

Henry;

You've been kind enough to give a thoughtful reply and I'll try to do the same. I won't reply point by point, but I will say that I can envision any number of verses that could be strung together and (mis)interpreted to come up with a date not far from now when Jesus might be predicted to come. I would expect that the Bible would be clear when such combinations should be applied and give some indication of when the starting date for the time period leading up to the end might begin, neither of which do I find in your calculations. The term translated "hour" in Rev. 14 is "hora" a singular term which refers to a set period of time, not multiple periods. It is translated "hour" 89 times and only three times is it translated "hours". The three times the word is translated "hours" it is always preceded by a number -two, three, or twelve, again indicating a set period of time, not multiple different time periods. The reference to "seeing, they do not see, and hearing they do not hear" and "pet opinion" might just as well be applied to you as to me. I would certainly like more evidence before I conclude that I'm one of those with eyes and ears closed.

Finally, I believe half the virgins are lost because they don't really love Jesus and have not His Spirit. All ten are caught sleeping and all are wakened by the pronouncement that the bridegroom is coming. The difference is in the oil which some have made the effort to procure while the others have failed to do so, not in their understanding of when the bridegroom will arrive. Thanks. steve.

[John317]

Henry;

Let me say that the hour (singular)of His judgement has come.

Originally Posted By: hch

To say that the word hour is singular in the "hour of His Judgment" is an assumption. The exact same word is translated as hour and hours in KJV. The context has led the translators to determine the tense: singular or plural.

Are you sure?

Please show the verse where the singular noun in Greek is translated by a plural noun in English.

When it comes to translating the word "hour," there is no evidence whatsoever that translators are led by the context to translate as they wish rather than as it reads in the original language.

In Greek, it is as easy to tell the difference between singular and plural as it is for you to tell the difference between "hour" and "hours".

Originally Posted By: steve9534

It doesn't say hours (plural) as you have concluded.

Originally Posted By: hch

You are welcome to read it as you see it. Christ often asked "How do you read...?"

The word in original language for "hour" is most definitely a sigular and not a plural noun. All translations read "hour of His judgment," because that is what the apostle John wrote. It is also what Ellen White said. She never changed "hour" to "hours," and neither should we.

We're not at liberty to change his words from singulur to plural. Imagine everyone changing the Bible to say what they want it to say. We must go by what it actually says, not by what we wish it said or meant.

What is the linguistic evidence that Rev. 14: 7 reads "hours of His judgment"?

For us to say that it reads "hours" would be no different from my saying that John 1: 1 really reads, "And the word was a god" or that Acts 5: 3 actually reads, "a tongue" instead of what it really does read, "tongues."

If we begin to make up our own translation based upon what we want the Bible to say instead of on what the Bible actually says, we can only end up with a religion that is in confusion and leads to ever greater confusion. There would be no objective truth.

What the text says much be based on what the text says, not on what the individual reader wants the text to say.

[hch]

Henry;

You've been kind enough to give a thoughtful reply and I'll try to do the same. I won't reply point by point, but I will say that I can envision any number of verses that could be strung together and (mis)interpreted to come up with a date not far from now when Jesus might be predicted to come. I would expect that the Bible would be clear when such combinations should be applied and give some indication of when the starting date for the time period leading up to the end might begin, neither of which do I find in your calculations. The term translated "hour" in Rev. 14 is "hora" a singular term which refers to a set period of time, not multiple periods. It is translated "hour" 89 times and only three times is it translated "hours". The three times the word is translated "hours" it is always preceded by a number -two, three, or twelve, again indicating a set period of time, not multiple different time periods. The reference to "seeing, they do not see, and hearing they do not hear" and "pet opinion" might just as well be applied to you as to me. I would certainly like more evidence before I conclude that I'm one of those with eyes and ears closed.

Finally, I believe half the virgins are lost because they don't really love Jesus and have not His Spirit. All ten are caught sleeping and all are wakened by the pronouncement that the bridegroom is coming. The difference is in the oil which some have made the effort to procure while the others have failed to do so, not in their understanding of when the bridegroom will arrive. Thanks. steve.

[John317]

So, you feel sorry for Adventist founders?

The Founders of our church did not believe or teach the rapture. They taught the Second Coming, that it will be visible and after the tribulation and the enforcement of the mark of the beast. This is not what is being taught by those who believe in the rapture.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: steve9534

Henry;

Let me say that the hour (singular)of His judgement has come.

Originally Posted By: hch

To say that the word hour is singular in the "hour of His Judgment" is an assumption. The exact same word is translated as hour and hours in KJV. The context has led the translators to determine the tense: singular or plural.

Are you sure?

Please show the verse where the singular noun in Greek is translated by a plural noun in English.

When it comes to translating the word "hour," there is no evidence whatsoever that translators are led by the context to translate as they wish rather than as it reads in the original language.

In Greek, it is as easy to tell the difference between singular and plural as it is for you to tell the difference between "hour" and "hours".

Originally Posted By: steve9534

It doesn't say hours (plural) as you have concluded.

Originally Posted By: hch

You are welcome to read it as you see it. Christ often asked "How do you read...?"

The word in original language for "hour" is most definitely a sigular and not a plural noun. All translations read "hour of His judgment," because that is what the apostle John wrote. It is also what Ellen White said. She never changed "hour" to "hours," and neither should we.

We're not at liberty to change his words from singulur to plural. Imagine everyone changing the Bible to say what they want it to say. We must go by what it actually says, not by what we wish it said or meant.

What is the linguistic evidence that Rev. 14: 7 reads "hours of His judgment"?

For us to say that it reads "hours" would be no different from my saying that John 1: 1 really reads, "And the word was a god" or that Acts 5: 3 actually reads, "a tongue" instead of what it really does read, "tongues."

If we begin to make up our own translation based upon what we want the Bible to say instead of on what the Bible actually says, we can only end up with a religion that is in confusion and leads to ever greater confusion. There would be no objective truth.

What the text says much be based on what the text says, not on what the individual reader wants the text to say.

A simple search reveals that the "singular" is used whether plural or not.

Joh 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

G5610 hōra ho'-rah

Apparently a primary word; an “hour” (literally or figuratively): - day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.

Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

G5610 hōra ho'-rah

Apparently a primary word; an “hour” (literally or figuratively): - day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.

I am not justifying anyone's reasoning in any sense by pointing out that "hours" (of His judgment) could be legitimate since the judgment certainly did not, nor is, lasting for only one hour. Again, not that I am supporting any alternate views in this case.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: 2 Peter 3:8

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Jesus is stating the number of hours of daylight in a day. Why was it necessary for Jesus to state the obvious? Does God put trivia in the Bible?

Peter is stating that to God a day is not ALWAYS the same as it is to us.

I have always been confused by those who would read a comparison of two things as if it were a symbol of prophecy and its interpretation.

Of course, for God 1000 years of eternity would be just like a day for us...

[John317]

A simple search reveals that the "singular" is used whether plural or not.

Joh 11:9 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

This word in John 11: 9 is a plural noun in the original language. So it is not true that the singular is used whether plural or not. The singular is only used when it is singular in the original language.

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

(quoting): G5610 hora ho'-rah

Apparently a primary word; an hour(literally or figuratively): - day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.

This is true and accurate information, but it doesn't say anything about whether a word is singular or plural.

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

(quoting): Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

There word here for "hour" is singular, not plural. It cannot possibly be translated as "hours." This is as obvious to a reader of Greek as it is that "hours" is plural and "hour" is singular.

Originally Posted By: teresaq (sda)

(quoting): G5610 hora ho'-rah

Apparently a primary word; an hour (literally or figuratively): - day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.

I am not justifying anyone's reasoning in any sense by pointing out that "hours" (of His judgment) could be legitimate since the judgment certainly did not, nor is, lasting for only one hour. Again, not that I am supporting any alternate views in this case.

You're talking here about a completely different issue: the length of the judgment. Of course the pre-Advent Judgment is not only one hour long. The translation "hour of His judgment" does not signify that the judgment is for a certain length of time. "Hour" in this text has the same significance as "time of His judgment." It is announcing that the time of God's judgment has arrived.

On the other hand, to say "hours" would be the same as saying "the times of His judgment." No Bible text says that and neither does any passage by Ellen G. White.

[hch]

I am not justifying anyone's reasoning in any sense by pointing out that "hours" (of His judgment) could be legitimate since the judgment certainly did not, nor is, lasting for only one hour. Again, not that I am supporting any alternate views in this case.

But we study to show ourselves approved unto God. None of us know every thing. And it is good to learn.

thanks for sharing

[hch]

2 Peter 3:8" But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

Jesus is stating the number of hours of daylight in a day. Why was it necessary for Jesus to state the obvious? Does God put trivia in the Bible?

Peter is stating that to God a day is not ALWAYS the same as it is to us.

[steve9534]

Henry;

You've replied kindly, but both John 3:17 and I have pointed out that the word you are using for your reckoning is singular, not plural and does not support your interpretation. Continuing to insist on a plural understanding of the word is not digging deeper, it's twisting the text to try and make it say something it does not. sorry. steve.

[hch]

Henry;

You've replied kindly, but both John 3:17 and I have pointed out that the word you are using for your reckoning is singular, not plural and does not support your interpretation. Continuing to insist on a plural understanding of the word is not digging deeper, it's twisting the text to try and make it say something it does not. sorry. steve.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: teresaq(sda)

A simple search reveals that the "singular" is used whether plural or not.

snipped

My bad. My brain was not "in gear" at that moment. I don't know why I was thinking there would be a different code for singular and plural. :(

[hch]

HEY ALL

yes I HEARD this on the news

we should not set dates for JESUS RETURN

dgrimm60

Like I said, sooo many times

set a date too soon and be disappointed OR

set one too far away and be disappointed again.

Better to leave it to God (and the News announcers)

[Woody]

Hey this kind of topic could have it's own Forum. For it is a re-occuring one that happens every few months. Different dates but always the same material.

Oh wait ... there already is a Forum for it. And it's called 'humor'. Well it certainly does give us a good laugh. But how many times can you tell a joke before it gets stale?

[CoAspen]

Sooooooo.....any one have plans or May 22??

[phkrause]

Sooooooo.....any one have plans or May 22??

I have to check my calendar! OK lets see, oh yea, I have the farmers market to go to. :)

[Ellen]

I feel like the old farmer who was asked what he would do if he knew for certain the world would end this week. He replied, I would just keep on farming my field like I am supposed to. We are to live as if it were our last day each day; yet we are to make plans as if we would be her many years to come.

[CoAspen]

It's too far ahead for me to make plans......but I will think of something!

[hch]

I feel like the old farmer who was asked what he would do if he knew for certain the world would end this week. He replied, I would just keep on farming my field like I am supposed to. We are to live as if it were our last day each day; yet we are to make plans as if we would be her many years to come.

It reminds me of the farmer on his way to the market with his son. The journey took a few days from their home.

So they stopped to visit relatives on the way.

Early the morning, the son awoke his father to go to market.

The father said that he wanted to visit awhile longer. The son got upset because fresh produce does not keep long.

After breakfast and some family time, the father decided that to keep his son from getting too worked up, they had better get to market. Then they saw a huge flash. In the distance, Hiroshima, was ablaze.

Had the father not been impressed to stay with his family a little longer, they would have been at ground zero on the fateful hour.

So who's living like today might be their last? Who is telling their friends family and strangers that Jesus is going to come to the names of living saints and then He will wrap it up soon?

As I read it He comes to the names of the saints, before he that has the last laugh, laughs loudest.

We don't know the day and the hour, but we should know Jesus and be in a state of readiness. And no one should be take the role of an accuser of the brethren, unless that is how they want to be viewed when their name comes up in the judgment.