Raphael Posted January 16, 2011 Posted January 16, 2011 Is their a SECRET (that we do not know or are unaware of) of why or how could a human reincarnated Jesus Christ win a perfect score (the only deemed acceptable score) in besting the kingdom of darkness in their very own turf? Quote Test me with thy might but grant me safe passage. Now, who said that?
Raphael Posted January 17, 2011 Author Posted January 17, 2011 This … is something I am allowed to share. The answer is that inside the human reincarnated man of Jesus Christ is the mind of God... Can we imagine what is it like to have the mind of God? ...with the infinite knowledge and full memory of His own existence? The mind of the Creator cradled inside human fabric versus His wayward creation of angelic hosts and human puppets. It was not a contest right from the start! God is one with His word and all laws of nature and there is no existence without Him. He maintains for existence to prevail. Can one imagine what form of knowledge (& memory) exists inside the mind of our Savior, the Christ Jesus. Though limited by human form and unable to execute Godly powers, His knowledge enabled Him to muster beyond perfection His human faculties, to carry out correct human acts of mind, body and soul in harmony with God the Father and withstand with no difficulty any ploy of the darkness. It may seem difficult recounting the scriptures that tell us how he suffered for us. Yes indeed He suffered for us but it was something that never even came close to what we can call as truly endangering or with real possible risks… there were NO risks that He would ever fail, it would be against His list of superb titles… In a way, you could say that He could do it all by sleeping (the least inactive form of human life). Should this lessen our faith? Hopefully not. The important fact is that He came to save and that is the only available way out. Should this become a rivalry of who suffer more or had heavier burdens? Keep in mind that though He suffered most, as Master … it was against His Godly nature to be endangered. Should we complain because of this? Perhaps yes (in prayer ONLY), in order to be gifted further assistance by Him but keep in mind that in the end there is no other way out. Quote Test me with thy might but grant me safe passage. Now, who said that?
Musicman1228 Posted January 17, 2011 Posted January 17, 2011 Raphael, You have made some interesting points, the first of which is that Jesus was 'reincarnated'. If this is not at case of mistaken identification of the word 'incarnate' the I truly do have a problem with your 'philosophy'. Reincarnation is when after someone dies their consciousness comes back to life inside a different physical form. Prior to His being born of a woman Jesus was never born; He always existed as God, and one of the forms we see Him take is the form of an Archangel-in this case Michael. It appears that you misunderstand why God had to come to earth in human form. He had to do this because the beings that He created (mankind-Gen. 1:26-27) fell into sin, having been deceived by Lucifer into believing that he (Lucifer) was their creator. Only another human being could save pay the penalty for other human beings, and only God could save them from ultimate destruction. The 'Saviour' of mankind would have to be both the precedent and antecedent of those He came to save. The being that came to earth in the form of a human being to do this work would have to be both God and man, and this is exactly what occurred. You also said that because God existed in human form He could not exercise all of His Godly powers, but was limited in this by His physical form. This also is not supported by Scripture. Jesus said he could call down legions of angels if He needed them. He worked miracles that only God could do-turning water to wine, fed the multitudes with a few loaves and fishes, walked on water, and raised the dead. We die because our bodies contain sin down to our very DNA. Sin is entropy-decay to destruction. The body of Jesus contained NO sin at all, having no human manufactured DNA from either Joseph or Mary to contaminate His physical structure. If Jesus did have sin in His human body then He would have been unable to act as the Passover Lamb, killed to purchase the Kingdom of God out of slavery to sin. Because of this Satan had no hold on Him in any regard, even to the extent of being able to kill Jesus for any reason what-so-ever. Satan tried to kill Jesus many times but was not able to do it. The cross did not kill Jesus; the weight of ours sins did not kill Jesus; Satan had no power to kill Jesus because Jesus IS GOD, and as such cannot be killed by anyone other than God. This played itself out perfectly on Calvary, as seen in the example of Abraham (as God the Father) executing his son Isaac (representing Jesus). God the Father executed Jesus His Son to pay the penalty for the sin of disobedience of Adam and Eve to the command of God to not eat of the tree of the Learning of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. The sacrifice and execution of Jesus Christ pays the penalty for only ONE group of people on the earth-For those who become members of the Kingdom of Heaven by being in Covenant (keeping the 10 Commandments) with their King, those who have completed the process of sanctification either in life or in death (in death by grace). The death of Jesus Christ pays the penalty ONLY for the forgiven sins of the Kingdom of Heaven, and no other people. This is why Jesus told Nicodemus that a person must be a member of the Kingdom of God to be saved; and to become a member one must be 'born again' of the Holy Spirit. We see this 'spirit birth' described in Rev. 12 where the first born of the Woman (the Holy Spirit) is Jesus Christ, and the 'rest of her offspring' 'keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus Christ' (Rev.12:17). These are the ONLY people on earth that are born again. No one that does not do those two things (keep the commandments and hold only to the testimony of Jesus Christ) will be in the Kingdom of God. And if you don't do these two things then you cannot claim that you already have been born again. Right now, and so far, NO ONE has yet been born again into the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of Heaven is the work in progress of the process of sanctification; the Kingdom of God is the work finished in the lives of those that seek truth through the process of sanctification. Being born of God does not happen just because you claim that Jesus Christ is your personal Lord and Savior, or that you make the claim you have been 'born again'. There is proof in the process: and one must finish the process in order to be sealed as righteous by God, and move from the Kingdom of Heaven on earth to the Kingdom of God in Heaven. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted January 17, 2011 Moderators Posted January 17, 2011 ...a human reincarnated Jesus Christ... Jesus Christ the Word became a man, but that is not the same as "reincarnation." The Bible teaches the Incarnation of the Son of God, not "reincarnation." Those are two very different things. "Reincarnation" is a false teaching, whereas the "incarnation" means that God, the Creator of the universe, became human. Phil 2: 6-8; John 1: 1, 14. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Raphael Posted January 18, 2011 Author Posted January 18, 2011 Right, incarnated not reincarnated. My apologies for the wrong term. I am actually not really well versed in Buddhism and the kind that promoted this term which got me on the wrong word. Thank you. Yes, the purpose of Christ existence on earth was to save. I was adding more detail to His nature and how different He was and is to you and me, not by the physical body but by His mind and its contents of infinite God knowledge and memory of an immeasurable lifetime as a God. He was able to counsel and explain things not by divine revelation but simply from His past lifetime as a God. He could very well tell us how things were in heaven such as angels having no sex and other things because He lived there and brought along all those memories and knowledge with Him. Plus He had far further knowledge beyond all the angels because He was and is God. A reflection on how He mentally faced and was familiar with the ultimate human test set by the darkness was when He stated "fear not him who can destroy the body but Him who can destroy the soul". It was too easy for Him to muster and performed beyond excellence the human role part of the 'depending and having faith in God the Father' because He not only had the encyclopedic manual know how of how a human operates but far beyond all human lore and fantasies may imagine. Quote Test me with thy might but grant me safe passage. Now, who said that?
Moderators John317 Posted January 18, 2011 Moderators Posted January 18, 2011 You are right that Jesus Christ was and is God, but we have to remember that as a man, He was totally dependent on the Father, the Holy Spirit, and the angels for His strength and power. He was also dependent on the Father for His wisdom and knowledge. As He said, "I of my self can do nothing." That was literally true. He never used His divine power to benefit Himself. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Musicman1228 Posted January 18, 2011 Posted January 18, 2011 Raphael said, "Yes, the purpose of Christ's existence on earth was to save." Jesus Christ did not say that His purpose of His existence on this world was to save, and it shows a lack of understanding to say so. However, this is a common mistake by most Christians because of what and how we have been taught regarding salvation. Here is what HE said His purpose was: Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” John 18:37. Our salvation is tied to our understanding of Truth. Jesus did die to pay the penalty for the forgiven sins (confessed) of His Kingdom (the Kingdom of Heaven). However, without a knowledge of the Truth as He taught it that sacrifice will do you no good as far as gaining eternal life is concerned. To be save one must understand these two important things: 1) that Jesus death was for the Kingdom of Heaven and not for the kingdom of the world, and 2) without knowing the Truth #1 does not matter. In spite of what we have been taught from the pulpit just saying you believe in Jesus is not enough to be saved. Quote
Moderators Gerr Posted January 21, 2011 Moderators Posted January 21, 2011 Raphael said, "Yes, the purpose of Christ's existence on earth was to save." Jesus Christ did not say that His purpose of His existence on this world was to save, and it shows a lack of understanding to say so. However, this is a common mistake by most Christians because of what and how we have been taught regarding salvation. Here is what HE said His purpose was: Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” John 18:37. He also said: "For God so loved the world that He sent His only Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life." For what purpose is His witness for the truth if it does not benefit anyone? Quote
skyblue888 Posted January 21, 2011 Posted January 21, 2011 Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” John 18:37. And He also said, "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32. So He came to make the truth known and by that truth men are made free. Therefore His purpose in coming to this earth was to save men from the slavery of sin and to give them an eternal inheritance. sky Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Musicman1228 Posted January 22, 2011 Posted January 22, 2011 Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. For this purpose I was born and for this purpose I have come into the world—to bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth listens to my voice.” John 18:37. And He also said, "You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free." John 8:32. So He came to make the truth known and by that truth men are made free. Therefore His purpose in coming to this earth was to save men from the slavery of sin and to give them an eternal inheritance. sky WHEN are men made free? Right when they declare themselves believers? Learning and knowing the Truth is called the 'process of sanctification'. So far as I know NO ONE has yet completed this process before entering the grave. This is not to say that it is an impossibility because Jesus said He would lead us into ALL truth through the power of the Holy Spirit. So are you free the instant you say the 'sinner's prayer', or is going into and through the process of sanctification at all necessary for salvation? Quote
Raphael Posted January 23, 2011 Author Posted January 23, 2011 Right, men are free through the process of sanctification where there is nothing instant. What measurements are available then that we are not fully aware of on knowing our levels in the salvation processes? That I would like to start in a new thread. Quote Test me with thy might but grant me safe passage. Now, who said that?
Raphael Posted January 25, 2011 Author Posted January 25, 2011 May I further add stark differences... we as human need to learn from various experiences either formal or not to grow and acquire the capacity to live/excel in life (as Christians as well). Those of the fortunate may come from well to do families with access to the best that this world can offer such as ivy league education & associations, world famous personality schools to elite military commando trainings awarding sheer advantage over rivals in our infamous human rat race while the less lucky will just make do with what's ever available. Human Jesus Christ on the other was with the presence of His own God mind omitting the need for any education because as God He could not learn anything more due to His fullness and perfect state beyond our imagination. The only process left was the growing period from infancy to adulthood of recovering back who He was which was Perfection that disallows learning discoveries. So, could we even come close in pitting our best trained and educated minds from all renown institutions, furthered with most favored blue blood ancestry and privileges against this definition of the human Jesus Christ's mind? Quote Test me with thy might but grant me safe passage. Now, who said that?
skyblue888 Posted January 25, 2011 Posted January 25, 2011 :) Quote "The merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.
Raphael Posted January 26, 2011 Author Posted January 26, 2011 It is interesting to observe the history of Christ on earth where in His ministry He exhibited Himself as a capable teacher and healer without the aid of a human tutor such as of apostle Paul except for His 12 year old boy incident, sitting in the synagogue asking and discussing things with the Israelite rabbis and causing those poor old folks to marvel at the young lad. That was the only recorded event where Christ was on a consultive mission with anyone causing us to pause and wonder what was really going on... If Someone well advanced in the highest acquisition of knowledge and learning suddenly losses all His knowledge and memory and then recovers it in a painfully slow and progressive manner... what predictive behavior can we expect to appear from this Person? Nowadays with libraries strewn here and there, with the world wide web availing information at our finger tips... I am pretty sure that this incarnating Personality would search the web & libraries to further evoke His beckoning particular memories of infinity... back then... there were no libraries or even the world wide web... only sooted, robe, bearded, serious looking and behaving, aged priests and rabbis... that's where Christ went to recall His real self when this opportunity presented itself to Him. Quote Test me with thy might but grant me safe passage. Now, who said that?
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