Branding your Church - for the reasonable mind

[Stan]

Branded Faith PART 2 from Dixit Media Group on Vimeo.

[Gail]

Stan, is this the person you were telling me about?

[Stan]

yes.... he baptized the person I mentioned yesterday.

[Gail]

He looks cool! I think I would like to meet this man!

[BSW]

Sounds kind of humanistic/corporate to me. I mean really? branding?

I am one who doesn't care one little bit about my community (disinterested benevolence)other than do they see Christ in me?! If Jesus Christ is truly dwelling in my practical life (thoughts, words, actions), my community will be drawn to Christ and through the unction of the Holy Ghost will wish to fellowship.

Trying to figure out the "needs of the community" thing isn't what people are looking for; Jesus Christ is who they are looking for. Not the “what would Jesus do” mantra, but how about “what did Jesus do”?

Is this too simplistic?

"I was shown that God requires His people to be far more pitiful and considerate of the unfortunate than they are. "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." Here genuine religion is defined. God requires that the same consideration which should be given to the widow and fatherless be given to the blind and to those suffering under the affliction of other physical infirmities. Disinterested benevolence is very rare in this age of the world." {3T 516.2}

[Gail]

Isn't it connected?

[Bravus]

I am one who doesn't care one little bit about my community (disinterested benevolence)other than do they see Christ in me?! If Jesus Christ is truly dwelling in my practical life (thoughts, words, actions), my community will be drawn to Christ and through the unction of the Holy Ghost will wish to fellowship.

<snip>

"I was shown that God requires His people to be far more pitiful and considerate of the unfortunate than they are. "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." Here genuine religion is defined. God requires that the same consideration which should be given to the widow and fatherless be given to the blind and to those suffering under the affliction of other physical infirmities. Disinterested benevolence is very rare in this age of the world." {3T 516.2}

You've misunderstood the meaning of the term 'disinterested benevolence'. 'Disinterested' is not a synonym for 'uninterested'. 'Disinterested' means 'without it effecting your own interests'. It means not expecting anything in return. It means being benevolent, not in order to get people into church, but because it's the right thing to do, because God commands it, because it constitutes 'pure religion and undefiled'.

Minister to the needs of those who have needs, without expecting anything at all (even church attendance and conversion) in return. That's what both God and EGW are saying in the passage you quoted. This is the *opposite* of being uninterested in the needs of your community.

[Dr. Shane]

I have seen a lot of AWESOME Adventist Community Services. I love watching programs like 3ABN Today and Really Living when they interview these people working in Adventist Community Services. If your local church doesn't have an active community service department, don't complain about it - volunteer!

[lazarus]

Sounds kind of humanistic/corporate to me. I mean really? branding?

I am one who doesn't care one little bit about my community (disinterested benevolence)other than do they see Christ in me?! If Jesus Christ is truly dwelling in my practical life (thoughts, words, actions), my community will be drawn to Christ and through the unction of the Holy Ghost will wish to fellowship.

Min of Healing p 86-89

In reaching the people. The Saviour mingled with men as one who desired their good. He showed His sympathy for them, ministered to their needs, and won their confidence. Then He bade them, "Follow Me."

Notice EGW take on the process:

Mingle > Ministering to needs > Winning their confidence > the say "follow me"

Again she hits the nail on the head......

If less time were given to sermonizing, and more time were spent in personal ministry, greater results would be seen. The poor are to be relieved, the sick cared for, the sorrowing and the bereaved comforted, the ignorant instructed, the inexperienced counseled. We are to weep with those that weep, and rejoice with those that rejoice. Accompanied by the power of persuasion, the power of prayer, the power of the love of God, this work will not, cannot, be without fruit. In the ministry of the word and in the medical missionary work the gospel is to be preached and practiced.

Quote:

Trying to figure out the "needs of the community" thing isn't what people are looking for; Jesus Christ is who they are looking for. Not the “what would Jesus do” mantra, but how about “what did Jesus do”?

In almost every community there are large numbers who do not listen to the preaching of God's word or attend any religious service. If they are reached by the gospel, it must be carried to their homes. Often the relief of their physical needs is the only avenue by which they can be approached.

[Stan]

There are other ways to brand your Church then looking after those mentioned..

IE

That is the Church who live longest

That is the Church who's kids all go to University

That is the Church who's sponsors orphanages in Africa

That is the Church that looks after their widows

That is the Church that will pray for your Children when they are sick

etc

etc

add your own

[Stan]

if you want "that is the Church that preaches Truth" you will be among every little Church in a zillion mile radius who trys to proclaim that.

[doug yowell]

There are other ways to brand your Church then looking after those mentioned..

IE

That is the Church who live longest

That is the Church who's kids all go to University

Just don't apply this brand to the church mentioned in the New Testiment and you're good.

[Stan]

It is relative to the Community.

Too many Churches have been successful in not letting the Community know the exist, and would not be missed if they shut down.

Churches can be known for a number of things, I like the statement of EGW "If Religion is not practical, it is useless"

[LifeHiscost]

Minister to the needs of those who have needs, without expecting anything at all (even church attendance and conversion) in return. That's what both God and EGW are saying in the passage you quoted. This is the *opposite* of being uninterested in the needs of your community.

[Gail]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Minister to the needs of those who have needs, without expecting anything at all (even church attendance and conversion) in return. That's what both God and EGW are saying in the passage you quoted. This is the *opposite* of being uninterested in the needs of your community.

Nice!

I like the part, "without expecting anything at all in return." If Jesus is lifted up, He will draw all men to Him, that is what the promise is. I like to see that put to the test!

[skyblue888]

And Jesus is lifted up when daily looking to Him and trusting in His merits alone, (trusting in the merits of His shed blood, the merits of His infinite Sacrifice) is presented to the sinner as his only hope to receive the gift that cannot be excelled, the gift of the Holy Spirit which brings all other blessings in its train.

"'Draw nigh to God and He will draw nigh to you.' James 4:8. Present your case before God pleading the merits of the blood shed for you upon Calvary's cross."

This is how we draw nigh to God.

Say, "Lord I have no goodness or merit within whereby I may claim salvation, but I present before You the all-sufficient merits of the all-atoning blood of the spotless Lamb of God. This is my only plea."

sky

[Gerr]

Sounds kind of humanistic/corporate to me. I mean really? branding?

I am one who doesn't care one little bit about my community (disinterested benevolence)other than do they see Christ in me?! If Jesus Christ is truly dwelling in my practical life (thoughts, words, actions), my community will be drawn to Christ and through the unction of the Holy Ghost will wish to fellowship.

Trying to figure out the "needs of the community" thing isn't what people are looking for; Jesus Christ is who they are looking for. Not the “what would Jesus do” mantra, but how about “what did Jesus do”?

Is this too simplistic?

And would you please tell us how your community is going to see Christ in you except by doing the same things that attracted people to Him?

[BSW]

Our movement came out of the great awakening to the fact that Jesus is in the very last procedure before coming back with wrath unmixed with mercy to execute judgment on the inhabitants of the planet both living and dead.

My understanding is that we are saved by faith alone in the merits of Christ Jesus, but we are judged by the works (fruit) done in the body.

The everlasting gospel is the call to people to understand this fact. Some will respond and others will not, it's really that simple.

The two questions raised in the piece were "What are we known for in our community?"

Do we want to be known for our "community activism"?

This in my opinion does nothing but takes from the individual and lead into corporatism. This is collectivism in its purest sense. Our mission to reach the individual not the "community". Christ helped the individual therefore He helped the community (women at the well is a good example; there are many). This approach is dangerous IMO.

Do we want to be known for "challenging status quo"?

I think most people (including in the "church") fear rebuke. It unfortunately has been looked upon by a decadent society as a bad bad thing. To be PC is so much more palatable. I would argue that a loving rebuke (I look at it as mentoring) can do more good for a soul rather than leading someone down a primrose path. Sin is never okay, ever. Our garments must not even have a wrinkle in them!! What does that mean? It means those are those who have washed their sins away by the blood of a risen Savior, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, and are now walking in the Spirit by faith. This will indeed reach many a searching soul.

Do we want to be known for "advocating for public transportation (if that fits within your scenario)?"

Wow. Thankfully (I suppose) we are more interested in more personal (individual) types of ministry, like helping mow a lawn, helping fix a deck, roof, drive way etc., talking about how Christ changed our lives and how He alone can strengthen us through any challenge we face if we live the light we have been given and strive for an even deeper relationship with Him.

His other question was "What do we want the community to know us as?" Negative or positive...

Hmmmmm... One question...Is sin a negative or a positive using James' definition? James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." This is Godly great advice! If it's good do it! The question then arises, what is "it"? It's a fill in the blank question. It is that "thing" that is a "known" good.

I suppose the bottom line for me was the fact that the word gospel wasn't even mentioned in this piece. It has to be Christ in me the hope of glory first, last and always. Once I am on board all the other will fall into place. The individuals will see the light shine so bright from our houses of worship the community will inquire “...Never man spake like this man." (John 7:46). It will be the Holy Spirit bursting forth as a river of living water, which is Christ Jesus.

[Stan]

What is your Church known for? How is that working?

[Stan]

that was not directed at the last posted but the members and viewers.

[Gerr]

The everlasting gospel is the call to people to understand this fact. Some will respond and others will not, it's really that simple.

Just think how much more effective you/we would be if we not only preach with our lips but also with our lives!

[Overaged]

How on earth can anyone "see Christ in you;" or anywhere near you when you say "I don't care one little bit about the community;" and then you quote the testimonies as if people are going to believe them after what you just said! Wow.

[Christopher]

If a church is ministering to the needs of all around as Jesus does then branding would just be an outreach of that Spirit of Jesus.Just another tool in doing that which is what the church is supposed to be.

[phkrause]

How on earth can anyone "see Christ in you;" or anywhere near you when you say "I don't care one little bit about the community;" and then you quote the testimonies as if people are going to believe them after what you just said! Wow.

Was thinking the same thing when I read his statement. Actually read it a few times to make sure I was reading it correctly. You make a very good point OA. Its by our actions that people see who we are. If we say that we have Christ in our lives than people are going to look at the things we do.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Read BSW's second post.

Our mission to reach the individual not the "community". Christ helped the individual therefore He helped the community (women at the well is a good example; there are many).

I agree. One on one is what works best for most people. They have to see you caring for them as an individual, not just doing things for a group without caring the individual.