Musicman1228 Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 What would it take for you to recognize and admit that a prophet or an apostle is false, and what standard would you use in confirmation? We have been told by Jesus to beware of false prophets, and people that declare they are from God when they are not. Jesus told us that it is our job to 'not be deceived'. We have been warned again in Revelation Ch.2 about a false prophetess that feeds food sacrificed to idols to the bondservants of Jesus. This means that these bondservants must believe that this false prophetess is a true prophetess. Why do they believe this in spite of the warning. This is an important topic and needs careful consideration. Quote
Guest Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 The best thing to do is see what the Bible says about how to spot a real one. Quote
wayfinder Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Matthew 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate ; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. A Tree and Its Fruit 15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 "So then, you will know them by their fruits. 21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. I will not name names, but I will say this; the truth brings about oneness and lies bring diversity. In other words, the truth unifies, lies divide. Quote
Guest Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 wayfinder, uh, what you posted says nothing at all about how to identify a true prophet. Or a false one for that matter. "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." How does this say anything at all about how to spot a true or false prophet? Quote
Musicman1228 Posted February 20, 2011 Author Posted February 20, 2011 wayfinder, uh, what you posted says nothing at all about how to identify a true prophet. Or a false one for that matter. "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." How does this say anything at all about how to spot a true or false prophet? Actually, Richard, what Wayfinder posted is exactly on the right track, and I'm sorry you can't see it. A false prophet or apostle will lead you to the wide gate, and only a true prophet or apostle will direct you to the narrow gate. The wide gate would be that information that everyone believes to be true. The narrow gate would that which only a very few will find. This is something we can build on in identifying a false apostle/prophet from a true one. Also, note the instruction by Jesus that Wayfinder called our attention too where He says that it is the person that 'does the will of the Father' that will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. So part of identifying a true prophet/apostle would be that they do the will of the Father. Quote
Guest Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 WHAT ARE THE TESTS OF A TRUE PROPHET? BIBLE FACT—We are commanded not to despise prophets, but to test them: 1 Thessalonians 5:20-21—"Despise not prophesyings. Prove all things, hold fast that which is good." (1 John 4:1.) BIBLE FACT —We must test them by the Word of God: Isaiah 8:20—"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." BIBLE FACT—While in vision, a prophet has no breath, and his natural strength is gone until the angel strengthens him: Daniel 10:17.18—"As for me, straightway there remained' no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me. Then there came again and touched me one like the appearance of a man, and strengthened me." BIBLE FACT—While in vision, a prophet can nevertheless speak: Daniel 10:15,16— And when he [the angel] had spoken such words unto me, I set my face toward the ground, and I became dumb [unable to speak]. And, behold, one like the similitude of the sons of men touched my lips: then I opened my mouth, and spake." BIBLE FACT —While in vision, a prophet keeps his eyes open: Numbers 24:16—"He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge .of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open." BIBLE FACT—While in vision, a prophet is unconscious of his surroundings: 2 Corinthians 12:2,4—"I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth) such an one caught up to the third heaven. . How that He was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter." Quote
Guest Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Actually, Richard, what Wayfinder posted is exactly on the right track, and I'm sorry you can't see it. A false prophet or apostle will lead you to the wide gate, and only a true prophet or apostle will direct you to the narrow gate. But that's not what the text says. So unless someone can read yours or wayfinder's mind, you will be hard pressed to get someone to take away what you just said, from a mere: "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." See my post above. It actually answers the question asked in the topic title. Quote
Musicman1228 Posted February 20, 2011 Author Posted February 20, 2011 All that is well and good, but that just lists how a prophet accomplishes the relating of the prophecy to others. I am more interested in WHAT a true apostle/prophet SAYS not how they say it. How do we know that an apostle/prophet is actually saying something that is of God? Quote
Guest Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 From the above post: BIBLE FACT —We must test them by the Word of God: Isaiah 8:20—"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Quote
Guest Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 WHAT ARE THE MARKS OF A TRUE PROPHET? BIBLE FACT—A true prophet will speak in harmony with the Bible: Isaiah 8:20—"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Deuteronomy 13:1-3—"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul." BIBLE FACT—A true prophet will exalt God and Christ rather than himself: Jeremiah 1:4-9 —"Then the word of the Lord came unto me, saying, Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Then said I, Ah, Lord God! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. But the Lord said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak. Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the Lord. Then the Lord put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the Lord said unto me, Behold," I have put My words in thy mouth. " 2 Corinthians 10: 5— "Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. " BIBLE FACT —A true prophet will reprove men of sin: Ezekiel 3:17-19—"Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at My mouth, and give them warning from Me. When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Yet if you warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul." BIBLE FACT —A true prophet will emphasize the necessity of Jesus in the heart: 1 John 4: 1-3 — "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: — And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is the spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. " BIBLE FACT —A true prophet will live a godly life and will produce good fruit: Matthew 7:15-20 —"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. . Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. " BIBLE FACT — The predictions of a true prophet will come to pass: Deuteronomy 18:21-22 —“And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Iord hath spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." Jeremiah 28:9—"The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the Lord hath truly sent him” BIBLE FACT —A true prophet will have visions and dreams: Numbers 12:6 “And he said, Hear now My words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make Myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak to him in a dream." BIBLE FACT—Both men and women can be called as prophets of God: Examples of men who were called to be prophets: Enoch (Jude 14), Moses (Exodus 3:9-10), Elijah (1 Kings 17:1-3), John the Baptist (Luke 1:13-17), John the Revelator (Revelation 1:10). Examples of women who were called to be prophets: Miriam (Exodus 15:20), Deborah (Judges 4:4), Huldah (2 Kings 22: 14), Anna (Luke 2:36). Philip's daughters (Acts 21:9). BIBLE FACT—The weakest of the weak may be called to this work: 1 Corinthians 1:27,29—"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise," and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; .. That no, flesh should glory in his presence.” 2 Corinthians 12:9 —“And He said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for My strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me:" (Also 13:4.) Quote
Musicman1228 Posted February 20, 2011 Author Posted February 20, 2011 Richard began his instruction with, "BIBLE FACT—A true prophet will speak in harmony with the Bible." Then he quoted the following text as proof: Isaiah 8:20—"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." There is a BIG disconnect here; the text does NOT say 'Bible', it says 'law and to the testimony'. Therefore, according to Richard the entire Bible is the Law and the testimony, which is a false premise on it's face. At the time Isaiah wrote this text there was NO New Testament, so Isaiah could not have meant the New Testament. So we now must define what the "Law and the testimony' really is in order to correctly qualify the true meaning of Isa. 8:20. Quote
wayfinder Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 wayfinder, uh, what you posted says nothing at all about how to identify a true prophet. Or a false one for that matter. "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it." How does this say anything at all about how to spot a true or false prophet? Richard, there you go taking one verse and trying to make me look like an idiot. I posted Matthew 7:13-21 and you cut verse 13 out and say where does it say anything about false prophets, I say read all the verses and you will see I am not the idiot you are trying to make me look like! I use everything in the proper context, appearently unlike you. Here are verses 22 and 23 which are very clear to this subject. "Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from Me, you Who Practice Lawlessness.' There is only one "apostle" who teaches that we are no longer under law, but under grace, that is lawlessness. Quote
Guest Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 No it's not. Not unless he teaches that keeping the law is not necessary. No apostle in the Bible does that. But you have been shown this many times, and you always just ignore it and carry on with your hateful diatribe about Paul. So carry on with your hateful diatribe about Paul, which is either a gross misunderstanding on your part, or a flat out lie. Personally, I don't see how it can be the former. But you won't waste any more of my time. I'm just glad you finally have your own thread for that nonsense, and have no more excuse for highjacking everybody else's. Quote
Musicman1228 Posted February 22, 2011 Author Posted February 22, 2011 No it's not. Not unless he teaches that keeping the law is not necessary. No apostle in the Bible does that. But you have been shown this many times, and you always just ignore it and carry on with your hateful diatribe about Paul. So carry on with your hateful diatribe about Paul, which is either a gross misunderstanding on your part, or a flat out lie. Personally, I don't see how it can be the former. But you won't waste any more of my time. I'm just glad you finally have your own thread for that nonsense, and have no more excuse for highjacking everybody else's. Why are you trying to hijack our thread with YOUR drivel and nonsense? Paul IS the 'apostle' that teaches Lawlessness, and you cannot justify this teaching by claiming that he didn't mean it even though he says things like, "Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law" (Rom 3:31), and in the next breath he says, "For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression." (Rom.4:15). This clearly demonstrates that Paul speaks out of both sides of his mouth; saying one thing and meaning another. Paul is asking his followers to 'practice lawlessness', and this is something that Jesus speaks directly against in Rev. 22:15: Outside (the gates of the New Jerusalem) are the dogs and sorcerers and the sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices a lie. Is not practicing lawlessness a lie? And if grace operates in salvation as Paul says it does then why would practicing either the truth or a lie even be an issue? After all, if we are saved by grace through faith then what we do (as in practice) does not matter to our salvation, because it is only by the merits of Jesus Christ that we are saved NOT by any works of ourselves. Right? Richard, you cannot have it both ways; either you practice truth or you practice lies, and doing either comes with its own reward. If doing either did not matter then why did Jesus say: “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay everyone for what he has done." Rev. 22:12. You don't repay anyone for something that is not of significance. A RIGHT is not a gift that is given irrespective of an accomplishment, and we (those who practice the truth) will sit on the throne of Jesus BY RIGHT of overcoming the exact same thing that Jesus overcame so that He has the RIGHT to sit on His Fathers throne, that is, sin and lies. The one who overcomes (conquers), I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also overcame (conquered) and sat down with my Father on his throne. Rev.3:21. Paul's gospel IS the gospel of Lawlessness, which he received from the 'god of lawlessness' in his visions. This is the same 'god' that gave EGW her visions, and she teaches the same lawlessness as does 'her favorite apostle' Paul. I am sick of the fact that you defend the indefensible and then accuse me/us of working for the very god that inspired the apostle and prophet you worship ABOVE the Son of God, Jesus Christ. I respect your threads by not promoting my understanding of Paul and EGW on them. I now ask that you respect my threads by not bringing your incomprehensible illogic in defense of Paul and EGW to them. You are welcome to comment on my threads all you want as long as you use ONLY the words and teachings of Jesus Christ as He gave them to His eyewitness disciples, and the Law and the Prophets in the O.T. as proof of your position. If you can't do this then it would be better is you left well-enough alone and didn't join our discussions. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted February 22, 2011 Moderators Posted February 22, 2011 ...."Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; Depart from Me, you Who Practice Lawlessness.' There is only one "apostle" who teaches that we are no longer under law, but under grace, that is lawlessness. No writer of the Scripture teaches lawlessness. I know of course that you are referring to Saint Paul as the apostle who teaches lawlessness, but that is a mistake. He actually taught that God's grace does not give us a licence to sin. Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? [2] By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Romans 6:15 What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Paul taught that genuine acceptance of God's grace leads to obedience: Romans 1:5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, Note: the gospel brings about the obedience that springs from faith/trust. Also see below for proof that Paul's message was not advocating lawlessness: Romans 2:1-16 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. [2] We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who do such things. [3] Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God? [4] Or do you presume on the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that God's kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? [5] But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed. [6] He will render to each one according to his works: [7] to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; [8] but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. [9] There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, [10] but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. [11] For God shows no partiality. [12] For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. [13] For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. [14] For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. [15] They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them [16] on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted February 22, 2011 Moderators Posted February 22, 2011 .... Isaiah 8:20—"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." There is a BIG disconnect here; the text does NOT say 'Bible', it says 'law and to the testimony'. Therefore, according to Richard the entire Bible is the Law and the testimony, which is a false premise on it's face. At the time Isaiah wrote this text there was NO New Testament, so Isaiah could not have meant the New Testament. So we now must define what the "Law and the testimony' really is in order to correctly qualify the true meaning of Isa. 8:20. The principle applies to the entire Bible because it's a fundamental truth of Scripture that God is consistent and therefore does not inspire His prophets to write contradictions. "The law" refers to the revealed Word of God and the "testimony" is the Ten Commandments. The NT is the revealed word of God. The NT teaches the same principle: 1 Cor. 14:33, 37 For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. John 17:17 Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Musicman1228 Posted February 22, 2011 Author Posted February 22, 2011 John said, "The principle applies to the entire Bible because it's a fundamental truth of Scripture that God is consistent and therefore does not inspire His prophets to write contradictions." You make this statement on your own authority because there is no Scriptural authority for what you say. When Isaiah wrote the 8:20 text THERE WAS NO NEW TESTAMENT, so you cannot say with any authority that he was applying this text to something that had not even been written yet. It is merely an assumption on your part that this belief of yours is true. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted February 22, 2011 Moderators Posted February 22, 2011 When Isaiah wrote the 8:20 text THERE WAS NO NEW TESTAMENT, There was also no Daniel, Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Malachi, etc. Yet the principle of Isaiah 8: 20 applies to those books also, does it not? Does the principle apply to the Gospel of John and to the book of Revelation? The principle applies to the entire Scriptures because God doesn't change. If He kept the Scriptures of Isaiah's day pure and free of false teachings-- writings that were intended to tell the Jewish nation about the future coming Messiah-- then you can be sure that this same God kept the Scriptures free from false teachings when they were made for the purpose of spreading the Good News of Christ's first and second coming to the whole world. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Musicman1228 Posted February 22, 2011 Author Posted February 22, 2011 Jesus confirmed the "Law and the Prophets" by citing them and reading them in the Synagogue. Therefore, Jesus confirmed them as Scripture. There was a difference in the Jewish religious practice between the 'Law and the Prophets' and the histories, the songs, and the writings of the Kings of Israel. These were not considered Scripture by the Lawyers and Leaders of Israel, or by Jesus or Paul (who claimed he was a Pharisee). Just because Scripture is in the Bible does not make the entire Bible Scripture. Paul never considered his own writings to be on the same authoritative level as Scripture. Jesus stated that His words were Spirit and Life, and these words are His testimony (Rev.12:17), and this gives authority to His words as Scripture in the NT because He was the author of the Scripture in the OT. More later. Quote
Musicman1228 Posted February 23, 2011 Author Posted February 23, 2011 John, Our current discussion prompted a friend and me to do some research and put together a short paper titled "Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth". Here is the link: Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth Quote
Moderators John317 Posted February 23, 2011 Moderators Posted February 23, 2011 Thanks. I will check it out. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted February 23, 2011 Moderators Posted February 23, 2011 You wrote in that link: Quote: ...suffice it to say that whether the Bible is or is not the actual/very words of God there is a way to know for sure whether what you read in the Bible is the truth. Jesus Himself told us how we will know: Quote: John 7:17 If anyone's will is to do God's will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. John 8:42-43 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. [43] Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. John 8:47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God." John 10:16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. John 10:26-27 but you do not believe because you are not part of my flock. [27] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 1 Cor. 2:1-16 And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. [2] For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. [3] And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, [4] and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, [5] that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. [6] Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. [7] But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. [8] None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. [9] But, as it is written, "What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him"— [10] these things God has revealed to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. [11] For who knows a person's thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. [12] Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. [13] And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. [14] The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. [15] The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. [16] "For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ. Daniel 12:10 Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand. If someone is wrong in their understanding of what the Bible says in any particular portion of Holy Scripture, will they be in any position to judge whether it is true or not? You and Dr. Rich have demonstrated to me that both of you often misunderstand what the Bible is teaching, particularly in the parts of the New Testament that you reject. The evidence of this is in the many posts that we have written back and forth. Acts 2: 3 is just one example. Your idea that Paul's gospel teaches or encourages lawlessness is another. When you make these sorts of mistakes in interpreting the Bible, it comes as no surprise that you would conclude that large portions of the New Testament are not inspired by God but by God's enemy. When I've shown you Bible evidence contrary to your conclusions, you rarely respond directly to what I've written, but instead you simply continue to say the same thing, usually on a different discussion, without speaking to the points I've made. It is as if you are saying, "Forget the evidence-- full speed ahead!" How do you explain Romans 5: 5-16; Romans 13; 1 Cor. 6: 9,10; 7: 19 and 2 Thess. 1: 5 to 2: 17, in the light of your claim that Paul taught lawlessness? How can you harmonize these verses with lawlessness? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
hch Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 What would it take for you to recognize and admit that a prophet or an apostle is false, and what standard would you use in confirmation? We have been told by Jesus to beware of false prophets, and people that declare they are from God when they are not. Jesus told us that it is our job to 'not be deceived'. We have been warned again in Revelation Ch.2 about a false prophetess that feeds food sacrificed to idols to the bondservants of Jesus. This means that these bondservants must believe that this false prophetess is a true prophetess. Why do they believe this in spite of the warning. This is an important topic and needs careful consideration. That was a challenge in Jeremiah's day as well. Hananiah claimed that his message was from God as did Jeremiah, but the two messages were in direct opposition. Now we can look back and see that Hananiah was false. It looks like the wait and see test worked then. But on the eve of Christ's Advent the Virgins can't afford to wait and see they must be wise or they will wake too late. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com
hch Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 From the above post: BIBLE FACT —We must test them by the Word of God: Isaiah 8:20—"To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." Yes but there is a way that seems right unto men: the ends thereof are destruction. Bible fact: 2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." that is a twofold action on our part. Study the word and rightly divide it. If we don't study God's word, we will be swept away by every wind of doctrine that comes along. Without rightly understanding God's word, we can't spot false teachings. And even a third aspect: if we don't look at or understand a message, how can we rightly compare it to the word of God. Bible fact: Acts 17:11 "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com
hch Posted February 23, 2011 Posted February 23, 2011 BIBLE FACT —A true prophet will have visions and dreams: Numbers 12:6 “And he said, Hear now My words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make Myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak to him in a dream." Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com
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