Is this trustworthy?

[Woody]

Quote:

"It Must Have Been God's Will"

[Liz]

That is a loaded statement, isn't it?

[Tom Wetmore]

No.

[John317]

No. Many things happen that are not God's will. He allows everything that happens, of course, but just the fact that things happen is no guarantee that God wants them to happen. In fact, God allows people to do all kinds of things that He absolutely hates. The Bible says divorce is one of them. Having gone through one myself, I can testify that God is right to hate it. God honors human freedom even when our choices fly in His face.

[skyblue888]

How about, "The devil made me do it."

Is that trustworthy? hehehe

[phkrause]

No. Many things happen that are not God's will. He allows everything that happens, of course, but just the fact that things happen is no guarantee that God wants them to happen. In fact, God allows people to do all kinds of things that He absolutely hates. The Bible says divorce is one of them. Having gone through one myself, I can testify that God is right to hate it. God honors human freedom even when our choices fly in His face.

I agree.

[Gerr]

How about, "The devil made me do it."

Is that trustworthy? hehehe

I heard Pipim's lecture last night on the "10 steps to destruction". He said we do not fall into sin, and I would add that the devil does not make us do it, he said we crawl into sin.

[Cosmin M.]

No. Many things happen that are not God's will. He allows everything that happens, of course, but just the fact that things happen is no guarantee that God wants them to happen. In fact, God allows people to do all kinds of things that He absolutely hates. The Bible says divorce is one of them. Having gone through one myself, I can testify that God is right to hate it. God honors human freedom even when our choices fly in His face.

I'm Cosmin and I approve this message.

[John317]

Thank you, Cosmin.:-) It's great to see you again.

[Gail]

I heard Pipim's lecture last night on the "10 steps to destruction". He said we do not fall into sin, and I would add that the devil does not make us do it, he said we crawl into sin.

Hahaha- that could very well be true. What is that verse that I'm thinking of, that says that temptation connects up, so to speak, with the sinful ideas we come up with on our own. Hang on, let me go look...

Here it is:

Quote:

James 1:13,14

13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

14But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

What word also fits with "enticed"? Can we also say, "allured"?

We do it to ourselves! In a way we are our own worst enemy.

[Gail]

As far as God's will is concerned, I agree with what John317 said. God allowed the results of the Fall and unfortunately pain and sorrow are what that is.

It doesn't mean, though, that God wishes babies to die or people to suffer. He did provide the remedy needed to save us and help us.

God can glorify His name in anything, I believe that. When He does, it is a more miraculous salvation than something that happens in good times. Man's extremity is God's opportunity is how the saying goes.

God's will? No. An honest look into the effects of sin? Probably more likely.

[Tobiwan]

Cartoon character Pogo, may have said it best, " We have met the enemy and he is us"

[Haldog]

I heard Pipim's lecture last night on the "10 steps to destruction". He said we do not fall into sin, and I would add that the devil does not make us do it, he said we crawl into sin.

Don't know who Pipim is, but we are BORN into sin. We did not have a choice. Through one man (Adam) sin entered the world, and through one Man (Jesus) we are redeemed from sin.

That is one difference between carnal man and Jesus. We are born with a carnal, sinful nature. Jesus, having come through Mary, and not of man, He did not have our carnal sinful nature which we are born with. We have carnal bodies. We did not ask to have a sinful nature, and God knows that we are sinful just by our very nature. In the many thousands of years since the 1st covenant was given, no human (except Jesus, the second Adam) has lived without sin. We ALL need a Saviour, every one of us.

[Guest]

Poppycock

[Woody]

Quote:

Don't know who Pipim is, but we are BORN into sin. We did not have a choice. Through one man (Adam) sin entered the world, and through one Man (Jesus) we are redeemed from sin.

That is one difference between carnal man and Jesus. We are born with a carnal, sinful nature. Jesus, having come through Mary, and not of man, He did not have our carnal sinful nature which we are born with. We have carnal bodies. We did not ask to have a sinful nature, and God knows that we are sinful just by our very nature. In the many thousands of years since the 1st covenant was given, no human (except Jesus, the second Adam) has lived without sin. We ALL need a Saviour, every one of us.

Excellent post. This is important to realize in the 'sin' issue. We must realize that our natural instinct is to sin. All we can do it to pray for the Holy Spirit's power in our lives. And if it doesn't come and we sin ... it ain't our fault folks. We were born into sin. And it's up to God to get us out.

Face it folks ... that ain't going to happen till the second coming when we See His Face.

And Haldog , I do know who Pipim is. He is the current joe Crews. I have a number of his books. But the books may soon face the same fate as Joe Crews' books. THE FIRE.

[John317]

Jesus took the same nature as His mother and his ancestor David had. The reason Christ overcame and obeyed His heavenly Father was not because He was exempt but because every time He was faced with a choice whether to sin or obey God, He chose to obey. His humanity assumed the DNA of His mother. He had no advantage over other humans in that way.

Hebrews 2:14-18

Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, [15] and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. [16] For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. [17] Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. [18] For because he himself has suffered when tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.

Romans 1:3

concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh

Romans 8:3-4

For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, [4] in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Rev. 22:16

"I, Jesus, ... am the root and the descendant of David, ...."

Isaiah 11:1

There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse,

and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit.

NOTE: The Messiah was a descendant of Adam, Jacob, and David. He could only have been their descendent through His mother Mary. Jesus most often referred to himself as "the Son of man," meaning one who is a son of Adam. That is the name he apparently liked the most because it identified Him with the lost people whom He came to save.

[Gerr]

BBBBUT, while born sinners, we still have a choice - submit our members to sin as slaves of unrighteousness which leads to death, or submit to God as slaves of righteousness which leads to life eternal. The choice is ours.

[Gerr]

Excellent post. This is important to realize in the 'sin' issue. We must realize that our natural instinct is to sin. All we can do it to pray for the Holy Spirit's power in our lives. And if it doesn't come and we sin ... it ain't our fault folks. We were born into sin. And it's up to God to get us out.

Face it folks ... that ain't going to happen till the second coming when we See His Face.

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ ”

"The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne." Rev 3:22,21 ESV.

Quote:

And Haldog , I do know who Pipim is. He is the current joe Crews. I have a number of his books. But the books may soon face the same fate as Joe Crews' books. THE FIRE.

I heard the first two of his 8 part lecture series. I have not heard anything unbiblical so far, and I have enjoyed his lectures. I was not a Joe Crews fan.

ps

Instead of relegating his books to the fire, send them to me. Thanks.

[Woody]

Quote:

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ ”

"The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne." Rev 3:22,21 ESV.

Amen. We must fight a good fight and finish the course. What must we conquer? We must conquer keeping our relationship with Christ and depending upon HIM for our salvation. And not good works. The works of Christ in our lives no matter how much and how long ... will never be enough. We must have to Robe of HIS Righteousness to cover our life.

[Woody]

Quote:

Instead of relegating his books to the fire, send them to me. Thanks

Why would you need them. He just preaches what you already believe. Nothing new to read about.

[ChildofChrist]

We can always send Jesus to answer the door when sin comes calling.

[John317]

I like that. Excellent!!

[Gerr]

Quote:

"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’ ”

"The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne." Rev 3:22,21 ESV.

Amen. We must fight a good fight and finish the course. What must we conquer? We must conquer keeping our relationship with Christ and depending upon HIM for our salvation. And not good works. The works of Christ in our lives no matter how much and how long ... will never be enough. We must have to Robe of HIS Righteousness to cover our life.

And how does one KNOW that he has a relationship with Christ?

ESV | Mt 7:16 You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?

ESV | Jn 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

ESV | Ga 5:16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

ESV | Php 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, 13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Having a relationship with Jesus means not allowing ANOTHER master to tell me to do something contrary to His will.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Instead of relegating his books to the fire, send them to me. Thanks

Why would you need them. He just preaches what you already believe. Nothing new to read about.

So I can pass it on to someone else.

[olger]

There is too much evidence in the Bible regarding standing fast (overcoming) to believe that humans are incapable of choosing obedience.

I like your post John317, and add poppycock 2.0 to Haldog's post.

Pipim? Very good man. One of our brightest scholars -- and most gracious according to Hans LaRondelle.

Word on the street is that he is coming to Ohio in June. It ought to be good.

g