'Do evangelicals' actions and belief match Jesus'?

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

I can't find anywhere in the bible where Jesus approaches the needs of the poor with that attitude. That's who you are accountable to, not me.

So now you believe in Jesus? Good! Keep coming back. Your spiritual growth is encouraging.

Yeah, I got tricked into being a Christian after all. Come to think of it, that's how it happened the first time.

[ClubV12]

Some doubt the comment:

"Once you really understand it, accept it, you will never find happiness again if you turn your back on it".

It is not a surprising that some doubt, in fact, most doubt!

Peter understood it! Those christians who once believed and followed Christ and then turned their back on Him, they understand it!

Even the devil and his angels understand it, "The devils believe,,, and TREMBLE."

Once you've seen it, tasted it, understood it, there is nothing left, no place to run, to hide, no place to find peace.

Jesus' disciples said,

"His teaching is difficult. Who can accept it?" Because of this, many of his disciples turned back and no longer went about with him. So Jesus asked (his other twelve disciples), "Do you also wish to go away?" Simon Peter answered him, 'Lord, to whom can we go? You have the words of eternal life. We have come to believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.' (John 6: 60, 66-70)

Peter clearly understood it, because he had come to believe, "Lord, to whom can we go?"

[bonnie]

You have said there should be no government help. My point is that Christian churches are not equipped to serve all the needs. I wish they would, then this would not be an issue.

[cardw]

I don't have any problem with the mentally ill being cared for.

I do with the drunk or drug addict on SSI.The choice to live a different life is in their hands.With a hand up remaining unwilling to help yourself leads to personal consequences.

I'm going to only respond to this because your other responses are so full of misrepresentation that it requires volumes to cover all of them.

If you read what I stated about government help you would see that I never suggested SSI for drug addicts or alcoholics because they don't respond to reason and giving them money only increases their problem.

The problem with evangelicals is that they don't do their research. They simply knee jerk respond with simple solutions that ease their conscience, much like an addict takes a drug to ease his or her pain.

What addicts need is rehab, not money.

If rehab was done effectively our crime rate would decrease dramatically because 22.4 percent of Federal crime is committed under the influence of drugs and 36 percent of state crime is committed under the influence of drugs.

This would also decrease demand and crimes directly related to drugs would also be decreased. This would reduce the amount of money made by selling drugs.

There is a whole chain reaction that would occur if we had effective drug rehab programs. The whole function of an effective drug rehab program is accountability and a return to responsible citizenship.

There are effective programs and there are not so effective programs. It is very easy to track success because you can easily measure when someone doesn't relapse. If evangelicals would demand that their politicians set up responsible drug rehab instead have telling them to pull the plug I think that would meet the task of taking care of the poor and those in prison.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

I don't have any problem with the mentally ill being cared for.

I do with the drunk or drug addict on SSI.The choice to live a different life is in their hands.With a hand up remaining unwilling to help yourself leads to personal consequences.

I'm going to only respond to this because your other responses are so full of misrepresentation that it requires volumes to cover all of them.

If you read what I stated about government help you would see that I never suggested SSI for drug addicts or alcoholics because they don't respond to reason and giving them money only increases their problem.

The problem with evangelicals is that they don't do their research. They simply knee jerk respond with simple solutions that ease their conscience, much like an addict takes a drug to ease his or her pain

What addicts need is rehab, not money.

If rehab was done effectively our crime rate would decrease dramatically because 22.4 percent of Federal crime is committed under the influence of drugs and 36 percent of state crime is committed under the influence of drugs.

This would also decrease demand and crimes directly related to drugs would also be decreased. This would reduce the amount of money made by selling drugs.

There is a whole chain reaction that would occur if we had effective drug rehab programs. The whole function of an effective drug rehab program is accountability and a return to responsible citizenship.

There are effective programs and there are not so effective programs. It is very easy to track success because you can easily measure when someone doesn't relapse. If evangelicals would demand that their politicians set up responsible drug rehab instead have telling them to pull the plug I think that would meet the task of taking care of the poor and those in prison.

Apart from your need to mercilessly criticize evangelicals for what they allegedly aren't doing,I agree, and I think most evangelicals would agree too,with your call for an effective rehab plan. But crimes committed under the influence are still crimes against others and simple incarceration (Which I personally don't find either biblical or effective)theoretically should break the cycle of addiction thus changing the behavior of those returning to society. But this is rarely the case.If government had produced effective rehab programs it's almost a certainty that evangelicals would support them. The recidivity rate of programs that are Christian based,though not 100%, are still far lower than governmental programs even though they are run with far less money and mostly volunteer work. Somehow the change in heart seems more effective than the change in venue.THe only effective weapons that governments can employ to control behavior are literally weapons.The founding fathers who created our present system of government predicted that it would eventually fail if the personal religion of it's citizens failed. Evangelical distrust of governmental attempts to rehab probably has much to do with it's lack of support for claims of it's projected successes.

[fccool]

Last thing I remember I was running for the door

I had to find the passage back to the place I was before

"Relax," said the night man, "We are programmed to receive

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave"

Lol

[cardw]

Apart from your need to mercilessly criticize evangelicals for what they allegedly aren't doing,I agree, and I think most evangelicals would agree too,with your call for an effective rehab plan.

[hch]

A bit of a counterpoint to some recent posts: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/phil-zuckerman/why-evangelicals-hate-jes_b_830237.html?view=print

It is an interesting point of view.

Reminds me of Apostate Protestantism.

[Paula]

This article said EVERYTHING I've always thought about the "religious right" but better!!!

[doug yowell]

I agree, and I think most evangelicals would agree too,with your call for an effective rehab plan.

They aren't demonstrating this from the polls. They are simply against anything government unless it supports Christianity. It's knee jerk thinking. I'm only speaking from the facts. Read the research.

Polls are not research. Most polls,including conservative polls, are slanted by an ideology that asks questions in a way which is usually not condusive to thoughtful comprehensive and accurate answers. The results can be used to actually present views that are not actually the ones held by those who responded. Results from those answers can easily be trumpeted as proof of one thing or another. I don't trust any poll until I see how the questions were asked and the options for the corresponding answers.Charles Colson, a chronic Evangelical, began a prison ministry which has demonstrated a more successful recidivity rate than secular government programs. Yet, his organization has been under continual legal fire for violation of church/state statutes. His organization recently lost access to implimenting those programs because of secular protests. The same thing happened to a successfully run private SDA prison here in Adalanto,Ca. a few years back. George W. was continually castigated (by Adventists in particular)for his FBI attempts which was supported strongly by evangelicals. Since most research shows that Christian based programs that minister to society's down side are generally more successful and efficient than programs that exclude any religious input it seems only logical that Christians would rather not pour their tax dollars down a governmental black hole while that same government simultaneously excludes them from practicing policies that work.Government wants their money not their results.

[cardw]

Polls are not research.

[doug yowell]

If we don't do polls how else do you suggest we find out how evangelicals believe?

This is not the only poll that says these types of things about evangelicals.

In internal polls these attitudes emerge as well. It is so obvious that there emerged a Evangelical Manifesto written by Evangelicals themselves.

This is a quote from the Evangelical Manifesto on this issue of losing what it means to follow the teachings of Jesus.

Quote:

The fundamentalist tendency is more recent, and even closer to Evangelicalism, so much so that in the eyes of many, the two overlap. We celebrate those in the past for their worthy desire to be true to the fundamentals of faith, but Fundamentalism has become an overlay on the Christian faith and developed into an essentially modern reaction to the modern world. As a reaction to the modern world, it tends to romanticize the past, some now-lost moment in time, and to radicalize the present, with styles of reaction that are personally and publicly militant to the point where they are sub- Christian.

Christian Fundamentalism has its counterparts in many religions and even in secularism, and often becomes a social movement with a Christian identity but severely diminished Christian content and manner. Fundamentalism, for example, all too easily parts company with the Evangelical principle, as can Evangelicals themselves, when they fail to follow the great commandment that we love our neighbors as ourselves, let alone the radical demand of Jesus that his followers forgive without limit and love even their enemies.

I'm not against polls themselves, I'm against the standard practice of posing the questions in such a way that the pollee is often given only an opportunity to answer yes or no or only the options listed. This generally does not give an accurate picture because it lacks context and other circumstances. Actions speak louder than words and if Evangelical actions rather than polls are allowed to be the judge then we'd be talkin turkey. My frame of reference for defending Evangelical positions comes from what they are doing and what they are advocating not what their opponents are saying they are not doing and politically supporting. I've already pointed out the thousands of social programs that they run on a daily basis ranging from feeding the poor, prison reform,addiction rehab,CPCs,homeless shelters,disaster relief,ad infinitum...It also should be pointed out that they do support many governmental social programs but may be opposed to those they feel promote anti-christian views and are ineffective and wasteful,promoting harmful social behavioral patterns. How can these actions be,as Zuckerman charges,evidences that they hate the teachings of Jesus? Interesting piece on the Evangelical Manifesto. I agree with it's thrust but I'm going to look a little deeper into it to get a more comprehensive picture. Thanks for the update.