David_McQueen Posted March 26, 2005 Posted March 26, 2005 FifiQueen and I were having a discussion this morning.If someone specifically stated that they didnt want you to pray for them in whatever capacity, should we still do it? Can we pray for someone to come to God even if they don't want to? Isn't that coercive? Quote Firstborn Ministries: Spoken and written word, without apology
Moderators Bravus Posted March 26, 2005 Moderators Posted March 26, 2005 I'm not saying this is the ideal solution, but it's what I do: if I know someone is not a believer and is going through tough times I tend to offer the option of prayers or 'good vibes/good mojo good will'. I'll usually pray for them anyway, unless they specifically ask me not to, but not simply telling them I'm gonna pray for them whether they like it or not seems less coercive on them. On your question, David, I believe God honors people's freedom to choose, and even to make wrong choices - I don't think we can do any less. Quote Truth is important
Restin Posted March 26, 2005 Posted March 26, 2005 Read in the book of Mark, chapter 5, and maybe it will help to answer this. Remember the part where it says, ..."What have I to do with thee, Jesus....I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not..." Quote
Guest Posted March 26, 2005 Posted March 26, 2005 Quote: FifiQueen and I were having a discussion this morning.If someone specifically stated that they didnt want you to pray for them in whatever capacity, should we still do it? Can we pray for someone to come to God even if they don't want to? Isn't that coercive? %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% Over in the 6th chapter of Revelation it tells of a group of people praying, NOT TO GOD, but to the rocks to fall & hide them after they receive the mark of the beast. They are even "seeking death and shall not find it" due to their "misinterperting the messages" [9T 268] heaven sent them, thinking they were all right when in reality they were all wrong. So I would say, make sure that your prayer are assending to the right source by not being contaminated with established or cultivated error. Then you can answer that orignal question with ease. Quote
DaveM1936 Posted March 26, 2005 Posted March 26, 2005 Quote: Can we pray for someone to come to God even if they don't want to? Isn't that coercive? My prayer life is my own personal business. People really have no right to tell me not to pray for them. I will be tactful to them, but people who ask not to be prayed for need our prayers the most. Matt 5:44: But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you. (NIV) Luke 6:27-28: "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. (NIV) I remember many years ago asking the Holy Spirit to leave me alone. I wanted to live my life of pleasure without interference. I praise God that He did not honor that request. If God is loving and giving life and blessings to those who hate Him, why shouldn't we? Your friend, Dave M Quote
cricket Posted March 26, 2005 Posted March 26, 2005 Last night I heard these very words: "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." It seems to me that we should follow Jesus's example: pray for them even though they don't wish it; pray that their hearts will be changed to follow God. Quote
David_McQueen Posted March 27, 2005 Author Posted March 27, 2005 If someone has asked not to be prayed for, and then you pray for God to change their heart to follow him, where does their choice to follow him come from? Should a change of heart not come from that person's own willingness rather than a desire for us to see them changed? Quote Firstborn Ministries: Spoken and written word, without apology
DaveM1936 Posted March 27, 2005 Posted March 27, 2005 God is a God of total freedom. He will never violate a person's choice. However, He will continue to draw that person to Himself with love, forgiveness, compassion. He is a God of infinite pity. Quote: If someone has asked not to be prayed for, and then you pray for God to change their heart to follow him, where does their choice to follow him come from? We do not do this with our own children. As parents, we set rules, we discipline, we "violate" their freedom of choice all the time. In God's eyes, we all are just little children. We do not know how to go out or how to come in. Is not the other person violating my freedom of choice by a asking that I do not pray for him? When you allow someone to control you (which asking not to be prayed for is doing) then you are surrending to this person's control. I would do what was right, no matter what the other person asked. If I love that person, then his request will only prompt me to pray harder. If Jesus could risk the universe in order to save this person, should I not add my efforts? Just smile and say: "I love you too much not to pray for you." Rom 5:7-10: Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! (NIV) Christ died for His enemies! On the cross, He prayed for the forgiveness of His enemies! Love should so control our own hearts that we cannot help ourselves but pray for, work for those who need it most. Your friend, Dave M Quote
cardw Posted March 28, 2005 Posted March 28, 2005 Quote: Can we pray for someone to come to God even if they don't want to? Isn't that coercive? I guess this might be a problem if one looks at prayer as some sort of talisman. I don't happen to believe that prayer changes other people's minds, but it functions as a way to bring our own minds into focus. Prayer, for me, often involves few words. It does involve a focus of intent which may include music or some sort of picture of unfolding good will. I find that, in my awareness of my own inability to really know the answer, words seem shallow. Prayer often helps me to clarify my own feelings, my own fears, and helps me to let go of specific outcomes. It opens my mind and my awareness to the plans already in motion. Anyway, that has been my experience of prayer. Richard Quote Rich http://tiny.cc/CM2j8
Nicodema Posted March 30, 2005 Posted March 30, 2005 Quote: Quote: If someone has asked not to be prayed for, and then you pray for God to change their heart to follow him, where does their choice to follow him come from? We do not do this with our own children. As parents, we set rules, we discipline, we "violate" their freedom of choice all the time. In God's eyes, we all are just little children. We do not know how to go out or how to come in. Yes, but these people are not CHILDREN, let alone ours, and it is not our right to nanny/parent them just because we feel like it. As a matter of fact it is demeaning to their integrity to suggest this. I'm not saying whether we should or should not pray for them, just responding to this statement in particular. :2cents: Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot
Moderators Bravus Posted March 30, 2005 Moderators Posted March 30, 2005 And on a completely different tack, I keep wanting to add 'Argentina' to the end of this thread's title... Quote Truth is important
Administrators Gail Posted March 30, 2005 Administrators Posted March 30, 2005 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> If someone has asked not to be prayed for, and then you pray for God to change their heart to follow him, where does their choice to follow him come from? Should a change of heart not come from that person's own willingness rather than a desire for us to see them changed? <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> I would ask is it right to tell God what to do and pray answers instead of bringing our petitions to Him... Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
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