Could lead codices prove ‘the major discovery of Christian history’?

[OCT]

Hello Everyone,

I was interested to read about finding the Ark of the Covenant etc. - I have a website promoting Ron Wyatt who claimed just that (probably many on this site will have heard of him because he was an SDA)- the front page video says that Ron found Jesus' blood that fell through the crack of the earthquake where the Ark had been hidden onto the Mercy Seat: "http://www.onlinechristianityteacher.com" - this is my personal website - of course you should evaluate carefully and not "blindly" believe this claim, if you had not heard it before - I will leave it for all people to make up their own minds.

A bit of info about me is that I was baptised in a Baptist church and have been in an SDA church in the UK for a few years - not yet a member - like mostly/wholly what I have read of E.G. White so far - also from my mother's side I am Jewish.

In Christ,

Philip.

[phkrause]

Hello Everyone,

I was interested to read about finding the Ark of the Covenant etc. - I have a website promoting Ron Wyatt who claimed just that (probably many on this site will have heard of him because he was an SDA)- the front page video says that Ron found Jesus' blood that fell through the crack of the earthquake where the Ark had been hidden onto the Mercy Seat: "http://www.onlinechristianityteacher.com" - this is my personal website - of course you should evaluate carefully and not "blindly" believe this claim, if you had not heard it before - I will leave it for all people to make up their own minds.

A bit of info about me is that I was baptised in a Baptist church and have been in an SDA church in the UK for a few years - not yet a member - like mostly/wholly what I have read of E.G. White so far - also from my mother's side I am Jewish.

In Christ,

Philip.

Welcome OCT, interesting you should mention Ron Wyatt. I have a book written by Jonathan Gray "Ark of the Covenant" which is primarily about Ron and his finds. Excellent book and it speaks to his discovery of the Ark.

[skyblue888]

Thanks pkrause.

Philip, welcome to the forum. Most of us have heard of brother Wyatt and have watched his videos over the years. There are some very intersting things in them and very entertaining too but as far as the ark of the covenant being underneath the place where Jesus was crucified, that remains to be verified. Mrs. White was shown that it was hidden in a cave in the days of Jeremiah and that it has never been disclosed and won't be until the great judgment day, which will take place after the 1,000 years.

sky

[Dr. Rich]

John317 said it all! Thanks for taking the words out of my mouth!

[skyblue888]

What do u mean by "said it all"?

[ClubV12]

It's a good discussion on the ark of the covenant. John, myself, Sky in our posts are all pretty much in agreement as to the details.

I would point out the first appearance of tablets of stone is when Jesus first returns (He brings them with Him), the second at the end of the 1,000 years.

As there are TWO separate tablets of stone I can't say for sure which set is in use in either the first or second appearance. The set currently in heaven, in the most holy place, or the set secreted away in a cave, here on earth.

Speculation warning:

Well, at least I guess they are still here on earth, in a cave, if they haven't been removed already and are stored in heaven. That being the case, there are now two sets of the law in heaven. When Jesus first returns (2nd Advent) He brings a set with Him. It would be logical to assume that set is the heavenly set, UNLESS, the earthly set was previously removed, by Him, from it's secreted place here on earth. Perhaps that earthly removal takes place just prior to His return.

[cardw]

Ron Wyatt is a fraud.

Here is the evidence. It is a web site that has letters from the experts he quoted out of context and you get the real story.

The Real Ron Wyatt Story

[Dr. Shane]

Ron Wyatt is one of those characters like Santa Claus or The Great Pumpkin. Some people believe in him for a while but eventually figure out the truth and feel foolish for having ever believed in the first place.

[ClubV12]

A good understanding of prophecy will prevent such mistakes.

For instance, we are told by the prophet the earthly ark will never be found until Christ returns. If you believe that, and I do, it wouldn't take long to figure out the truth. No matter how convincing the evidence.

There WILL be a series of false miracles happening world wide just before Christ returns. There will be no scientific explanation, OR, there will be very good scientific explanations confirming them! Wonders so great that if it were possible even the very elect would be fooled.

There will be a wonderful (in appearance) world wide revival, plenty of love, peace, everyone one on board, for the good of man and the planet. Sincere people, loving people,,, wait for it, there will be a very dark side coming shortly after as the truth is slowly revealed. Many of those who have committed to this "wonderful" happening will be to ashamed to admit they were wrong, to embarrased to change course. For them, the truth will come to late.

Think of the great disappointment of 1844. People sold their homes, quit their job, dedicated their lives in humility and prayer awaiting the "set date" for His return. Many could not bear the thought of being deceived, an immense personal failure and lives ruined, families left distitute. Forced to beg for food, no housing, unemployed.

Hold fast that which you know to be true from your own personal study, your own personal connection with God. Or, be battered on the "lovely rocks" until it is to late.

[OCT]

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I have noted your opinions and sent the following message by YouTube.com messaging and also their e-mail from their website - if they reply and give their permission to post, I can put their reply here.

Quote:

Hello Friend In Christ,

I have posted on an SDA forum thread: "http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/432994/4.html" and was given statements like: "For instance, we are told by the prophet the earthly ark will never be found until Christ returns. If you believe that, and I do, it wouldn't take long to figure out the truth. No matter how convincing the evidence.".

Please look through this forum thread and as I presume you would think they are wrong, tell me if you are familiar with the texts they are quoting and how your position can be justified - I am not saying you - or they - are wrong - just would like you to try and rebut them - even if you are not familiar with the texts they are claiming, that would not necessarily by itself mean you are wrong - on the other hand, if you are familiar with them, then I would be interested to hear a rebuttal. For your reference, I have put Ron's video on my website: “http://www.onlinechristianityteacher.com”.

Thank you very much for your time and effort – if you will allow me to post your reply on the SDA forum thread, please let me know.

I pray for you to have strength, courage and wisdom through Jesus Christ our Lord, Saviour and soon Judge.

In His name,

Philip.

We look forward to Jesus' soon return and his certain just Judgement for the living and the dead.

"He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus." Revelation 22:20 KJV

In His name,

Philip.

[phkrause]

A good understanding of prophecy will prevent such mistakes.

For instance, we are told by the prophet the earthly ark will never be found until Christ returns. If you believe that, and I do, it wouldn't take long to figure out the truth. No matter how convincing the evidence.

There WILL be a series of false miracles happening world wide just before Christ returns. There will be no scientific explanation, OR, there will be very good scientific explanations confirming them! Wonders so great that if it were possible even the very elect would be fooled.

There will be a wonderful (in appearance) world wide revival, plenty of love, peace, everyone one on board, for the good of man and the planet. Sincere people, loving people,,, wait for it, there will be a very dark side coming shortly after as the truth is slowly revealed. Many of those who have committed to this "wonderful" happening will be to ashamed to admit they were wrong, to embarrased to change course. For them, the truth will come to late.

Think of the great disappointment of 1844. People sold their homes, quit their job, dedicated their lives in humility and prayer awaiting the "set date" for His return. Many could not bear the thought of being deceived, an immense personal failure and lives ruined, families left distitute. Forced to beg for food, no housing, unemployed.

Hold fast that which you know to be true from your own personal study, your own personal connection with God. Or, be battered on the "lovely rocks" until it is to late.

Than you need to read the book "Ark of the Covenant", because that's exactly what he says at the end of the book. I don't believe he claimed that he actually found it, but that he had a good idea of where its at.

[ClubV12]

I wonder how many people read this book coming away with the thought, "Wow, the ark might be found." "It could be found!" "They might have already found it." I wonder how much time and money was spent by various individuals seeking the ark as a result? Before, and after this book came out? The lives dedicated to a course of action doomed to fail. I wonder how many people were and remain confused on this issue of the discovery of the ark? Wasting time thinking about it, dwelling on it, side tracked by it? Fearful of it, wondering at it!

For those who accept the Spirit of Prophecy, the plain statements concerning any so-called discovery of the ark, there is no mystery. The ark will not be found, period.

For those who reject the Spirit of Prophecy and THINK they can make their case based solely on the bible and the bible alone, they are "sincerely" mistaken. Sincere, but mistaken never the less. You cannot separate the two, the Spirit of Prophecy and the bible, you simply cannot. It is impossbile to understand these last day events without the divine instruction given to us FOR these last days by the Lords servant, Ellen White.

For those who presume to base their faith solely on the bible and the bible alone, in these last times, you are doomed to make serious mistakes in your analysis. It can't be done. This is fundamentally WHY we have so many different religions, confusion reigns, their light is darkness. Where the people have no vision, they perish.

From Ron Wyatts web site:

"Ron Wyatt claimed that he found the Ark of the Covenant."

[OCT]

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

Greetings in the name of our Lord and Saviour, our soon righteous Judge and Redeemer, Jesus Christ.

I have spoken to the youtube.com account holder and they are apparently not familiar where Ellen says the Ark will never be found, with a specific reference and quote and if that cannot be provided then there is no case to answer they say.

In His name and awaiting His soon return,

Philip.

[ClubV12]

Skyblues post #433014 (page 3 on my computer) contains several specific EGW quotes, and bible quotes, on the issue of when the tablets will be brought forth for all to see.

Quick summary:

1. The first time is at the moment of His second advent. It is debatable as to which tablets of stone are presented at that time. My personal opinion is that the tablets, at that time, are the tablets that exist in heaven and He brings them with Him. But really, it is a moot point, as the end of all things is at hand anyway.

2. At the end of the 1,000 year review of the books of life and death. Again, not exactly clear on which set is used, but it remains a moot point at that time.

[OCT]

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ,

I have been given another message by the youtube.com account holder for Ron Wyatt's video about finding Jesus' blood and they were keen for me to pass it on (see: http://www.youtube.com/user/atenorforjesus").

First of all for counterbalance, here is a page from the Ellen White estate website that I just came across: "http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/Ark.html".

Secondy, the youtube.com owner says:

"We must make a clear case to SDA's. It is vital as this is the latter rain message and they are ignoring it. It is not optional.

Law Preserved in Ark.--"And He [Christ] gave unto Moses, when He had made an end of communicating with him upon Mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written by the finger of God." Nothing written on those tables could be blotted out. The precious record of the law was placed in the ark of the testament and is still there, safely hidden from the human family. But in God's appointed time He will bring forth these tables of stone to be a testimony to all the world against the disregard of His commandments and against the idolatrous worship of a counterfeit Sabbath (MS 122, 1901). {1BC 1109.2}

This means that they will be brought out soon after the mark of the beast has been put in place. Which is what the angel told Ron in the cave."

As a further point, I yesterday purchased a web domain entitled "http://www.sdaforum.org" where I hope to start analysing the writing of Ellen and providing a focal point for believers and non-believers to discuss and learn about it - "end time"-permitting.

In Christ's service,

Philip.

[ClubV12]

Philip, we know from the Great Controversy precisely when the tablets are brought forth, there is no mystery here. They are in His hand, folded and then opened for all to see at the moment of His second coming. The closing events are very precisely laid out in the Great Controversy and those events are consistent with your quote above.

The tablets WILL be brought forth, He will display them to the world. There is nothing to indicate that "man" has anything to do with bringing them forth, BEFORE His appearance in the sky.

"We must make a clear case to Ron Wyatt followers. It is vital as this is the latter rain message and they are ignoring it. It is not optional."

That message is:

MAN will not bring forth the tablets, God will, at His second coming.

[OCT]

Philip, we know from the Great Controversy precisely when the tablets are brought forth, there is no mystery here. They are in His hand, folded and then opened for all to see at the moment of His second coming. The closing events are very precisely laid out in the Great Controversy and those events are consistent with your quote above.

The tablets WILL be brought forth, He will display them to the world. There is nothing to indicate that "man" has anything to do with bringing them forth, BEFORE His appearance in the sky.

"We must make a clear case to Ron Wyatt followers. It is vital as this is the latter rain message and they are ignoring it. It is not optional."

That message is:

MAN will not bring forth the tablets, God will, at His second coming.

Your opinion noted and have forwarded it on to the youtube.com owner - they had told me that they are busy in an important matter as the reason they had not replied directly here before.

In Christ,

Philip.