Does God Let Us Die on Purpose?

[Woody]

In looking at the story of Lazarus ... it would appear that God dilly dallied around letting Lazarus die on propose.

I have always been curious about this.

But does God do that for our spiritual lives so that he can rise us from the grave of spiritual death ... to new spiritual levels?

Just like Lazarus .... Jesus COULD rescue us from death. But instead he let's us die and wallow in the tomb before rising us to a renewed spiritual life.

Okay ... this is just a start on this thought. Perhaps you could help me expand or clarify it more.

[Gail]

Spiritual dying is what you SHOULD be doing! The old man must die in order for you to rise to newness of life. And if he tries to resurrect himself and he succeeds, then he must die again.

[Woody]

Quote:

And if he tries to resurrect himself and he succeeds, then he must die again.

Good points Gail. I appreciate you pointing this out.

I am sure getting tired of having to die. I hate death.

But then the rising from the tomb is always a pleasant experience. I'm just praying that I don't have to keep doing it. I want to walk in newness of life and not remain in the grave of spiritual death.

[Guest]

Spiritual dying is what you SHOULD be doing! The old man must die in order for you to rise to newness of life. And if he tries to resurrect himself and he succeeds, then he must die again.

Again he must DIE!!!!!! Amen...

[Sonny]

Hey, if I died and God restored me (resurrected me) only to die years later, that would be okay with me.

[phkrause]

In looking at the story of Lazarus ... it would appear that God dilly dallied around letting Lazarus die on propose.

I have always been curious about this.

But does God do that for our spiritual lives so that he can rise us from the grave of spiritual death ... to new spiritual levels?

Just like Lazarus .... Jesus COULD rescue us from death. But instead he let's us die and wallow in the tomb before rising us to a renewed spiritual life.

Okay ... this is just a start on this thought. Perhaps you could help me expand or clarify it more.

So what does your favorite author have to say about this subject? :)

[miz3]

Woody,

Thank you!!!!!!! This is a great question!!!!!!!!!!!!! It travels along the lines of a text that has interested me for some time. Your raising (no pun intended, well maybe a little intended lol) the question why did Jesus let Lazarus die?

This question is similar to one the disciples posed to Jesus Christ concerning a blind man. It is not exactly the same question but there are elements of parallel in the two accounts.

"As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2 His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3 “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life." John 9:1-3.

Jesus Christ stated that this man was born blind and had to suffer with this handicap so that God could be glorified. God being glorified was at this moment when Christ healed the man and the man then went testifying everywhere and praising God. The blind man even got in trouble with the Jewish authorities over the healing. The blind man basically told the Jewish authorities what they could do with their religion and their policy on Jesus Christ. He was healed "both physically and Spiritually" and that's all he cared about!!!!!!!!!

Can you imagine that a "loving God" would put a human through all those years of suffering just for that particular moment in time to glorify Himself? Amazing!!!!!!!!!!!

[WayneV]

I often wondered where all of us clay pots received the authority to question the motives of the Master Potter!? (see Isa. 29:16; 45:9; 64:8; Jer. 18:4-6; Rom. 9:21)

I am partial to the passage in Romans, because it speaks of the Potter's "right" to make different vessels (us) for various purposes from the same lump of clay (Adam). I do not know if God has made you to be a flower vase (decorative), a bowl (pracitcal utility), or a trash container (practical utility that stinks). Whatever He has created us to be, I would pray that we would be the best one possible!

Agape`

[John317]

Test and trial will come to every soul that loves God. The Lord does not work a miracle to prevent this ordeal of trial, to shield His people from the temptations of Satan. If they are tempted severely, it is because circumstances have been so shaped by the apostasy of Satan that temptations are permitted in order that characters may be developed that will decide the fitness of the human family for the home in heaven, characters that will stand through all the pressure of unfavorable circumstances in private and public life.—Manuscript 57, 1896 (Manuscript Releases, vol. 18, pp. 363-365). {CTr 37.5}

True Christians will have an experience like that of Christ in the wilderness of temptation, especially those who engage in rescuing souls from the snares of Satan. They will meet the assaults of the enemy of all righteousness; and as Christ overcame, so may they overcome through His grace. Christians should not feel that they are abandoned of God because they are subjected to sore temptations. If they remain unshaken by the temptations, Satan will leave them, and angels will minister to them as they did to Jesus. There is no comfort equal to that which Christians enjoy when the tempted soul has patiently suffered and Satan has been vanquished. They have borne witness for Jesus, relying wholly upon the Word of God, “It is written,” and thus have resisted every advance of Satan, till they have beaten him back and gained the victory. {CTr 210.2}

Let us in no case depreciate people because they are severely tempted and the billows seem to go over their head. We must remember that Jesus was sorely tempted in all points like as we are, so that He might succor all who should be tempted. . . . {CTr 210.3}

Trials are permitted to come upon the chosen people of God. The expressions are used, “God tempted Abraham,”“God tempted the children of Israel.” This means that the Lord permitted Satan to tempt them in order that their faith might be found unto honor and glory when the judgment shall sit, and when every person shall be judged according to the deeds done in the body. God knows every heart, every motive, every thought in the heart; but He permits Satan to try and tempt and test His believing ones in order that their trust and confidence in God may be revealed. . . . {CTr 186.3}

The Lord hates sin; but He loves and forgives the repentant, believing sinner, and takes everyone under His guardianship and control. Satan is on the track of every soul, but with every temptation that is permitted to come upon the children of God’s pardoning love, He makes a way of escape in order that they shall not be tempted above that which they are able to bear.

Ms. 97, 1894

[John317]

I must tell you that heaven is to be sought for, to be prayed for, to be worked for. We cannot, with our unconverted traits of character, drift into heaven. . . . {CTr 214.3}

Let us lay aside the warfare the enemy would have us put on. Let us begin to work in earnest to overcome our hereditary and cultivated tendencies to evil. Let us plead with God to take away the wicked propensity to faultfinding, and in its place to give us life and the love of Christ. . .

Some of the professed servants of God do not know what purifying trials are. They sometimes make trials for themselves, imagine trials, and are so easily discouraged, so easily hurt, self-dignity is so quick to feel, that they injure themselves, injure others, and injure the cause. Satan magnifies their trials, and puts thoughts into their minds that, if given way to, will destroy their influence and usefulness. {CET 158.2}

Some have felt tempted to take themselves from the work, to labor with their hands. I saw that if the hand of God should be taken from them, and they be left subject to disease and death, then they would know what trouble is. It is a fearful thing to murmur against God. They do not bear in mind that the way which they are traveling is a rugged, self-denying, self-crucifying way, and they must not expect everything to move on as smoothly as though they were traveling in the broad road. {CET 159.1}

I saw that some of the servants of God, even ministers, are so easily discouraged, self is so quickly hurt, that they imagine themselves slighted and injured when it is not so. They think their lot hard. Such realize not how they would feel should the sustaining hand of God be withdrawn, and they pass through anguish of soul. They would then find their lot tenfold harder than it was before, while they were employed in the work of God, suffering trials and privations, yet withal having the Lord's approbation. {CET 159.2}

Some that are laboring in the cause of God know not when they do have an easy time. They have had

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so few privations, and know so little of want or wearing labor or burden of soul, that when they have an easy time, when they are favored of God and almost entirely free from anguish of spirit, they know it not, and think their trials great. I saw that unless such have a spirit of self-sacrifice, and are ready to labor cheerfully, not sparing themselves, God will release them. He will not acknowledge them as His self-sacrificing servants, but will raise up those who will labor, not slothfully, but in earnest, and will know when they have an easy time. God's servants must feel the burden of souls, and weep between the porch and the altar, crying, "Spare Thy people, Lord." {CET 159.3}

Some of the servants of God have given up their lives to spend and be spent for the cause of God, until their constitutions are broken down, and they are almost worn out with mental labor, incessant care, toil, and privations. Others have not had, and would not take, the burden upon them. Yet just such ones think they have a hard time, because they have never experienced hardships. They never have been baptized into the suffering part, and never will be as long as they manifest so much weakness and so little fortitude, and love their ease so well. {CET 160.1}

[Haldog]

Paul told us in I Corrinthians 11 why many in the church ar sick and "asleep". It is because they do not discern the Lords body (verse 29) while partaking of the Lord's Supper.

I'll take that over guessing any day of the week.

[ClubV12]

I remain saddened by the fact that Moses had to die before entering the land of milk and honey. That was his "punishment" for a single "slip up".

At times I've thought about other momentary, singular slip-up's and the resultant "carnage", for lack of a better word.

The higher you go, the more precise the demands of the unchangeable, ever lasting, rules/laws of God apply. At times, I think, "Man, I haven't got a chance of getting this right." I mean, if Moses couldn't pull it off, whoa is me!

Thankfully, mercy is mixed with justice and I press on toward the goal, trusting the Lord to work His way in every aspect of my life. If that demands death, because of the rules/law or my own weakness to not bear an upcoming trial, I accept it.

Tis the second death I fear!

[Woody]

I often wondered where all of us clay pots received the authority to question the motives of the Master Potter!? (see Isa. 29:16; 45:9; 64:8; Jer. 18:4-6; Rom. 9:21)

I am partial to the passage in Romans, because it speaks of the Potter's "right" to make different vessels (us) for various purposes from the same lump of clay (Adam). I do not know if God has made you to be a flower vase (decorative), a bowl (pracitcal utility), or a trash container (practical utility that stinks). Whatever He has created us to be, I would pray that we would be the best one possible!

Agape`

Thanks WayneV. This is most excellent.

[skyblue888]

I thought it would be interesting to see what the Desire of Ages had to say about Lazarus' death:

"The disciples marveled at Christ's words when He said, 'Lazarus is dead. And I am glad . . . that I was not there.' Did the Saviour by His own choice avoid the home of His suffering friends? Apparently Mary and Martha and the dying Lazarus were left alone. But they were not alone. Christ beheld the whole scene, and after the death of Lazarus the bereaved sisters were upheld by His grace. Jesus witnessed the sorrow of their rent hearts, as their brother wrestled with his strong foe, death. He felt every pang of anguish, as He said to His disciples, 'Lazarus is dead.' But Christ had not only the loved ones at Bethany to think of; He had the training of His disciples to consider. They were to be His representatives to the world, that the Father's blessing might embrace all. For their sake He permitted Lazarus to die. Had He restored him from illness to health, the miracle that is the most positive evidence of His divine character, would not have been performed.

Had Christ been in the sickroom, Lazarus would not have died; for Satan would have had no power over him. Death could not have aimed his dart at Lazarus in the presence of the Life-giver. Therefore Christ remained away. He suffered the enemy to exercise his power, that He might drive him back, a conquered foe. He permitted Lazarus to pass under the dominion of death; and the suffering sisters saw their brother laid in the grave. Christ knew that as they looked on the dead face of their brother their faith in their Redeemer would be severely tried. But He knew that because of the struggle through which they were now passing their faith would shine forth with far greater power. He suffered every pang of sorrow that they endured. He loved them no less because He tarried; but He knew that for them, for Lazarus, for Himself, and for His disciples, a victory was to be gained.

'For your sakes,' 'to the intent ye may believe.' To all who are reaching out to feel the guiding hand of God, the moment of greatest discouragement is the time when divine help is nearest. They will look back with thankfulness upon the darkest part of their way. 'The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly, 2 Peter 2:9. From every temptation and every trial He will bring them forth with firmer faith and a richer experience.

In delaying to come to Lazarus, Christ had a purpose of mercy toward those who had not received Him. He tarried, that by raising Lazarus from the dead He might give to His stubborn, unbelieving people another evidence that He was indeed 'the resurrection, and the life.' He was loath to give up all hope of the people, the poor, wandering sheep of the house of Israel. His heart was breaking because of their impenitence. In His mercy He purposed to give them one more evidence that He was the Restorer, the One who alone could bring life and immortality to light. This was to be an evidence that the priests could not misinterpret. This was the reason of His delay in going to Bethany. This crowning miracle, the raising of Lazarus, was to set the seal of God on His work and on His claim to divinity." D.A.528.