No gaurdian angel if not with Christ?

[ClubV12]

From the Great Controversy, page 513.

"A guardian angel is appointed to every follower of Christ. These heavenly watchers shield the righteous from the power of the wicked one."

Does this imply that UNTIL you accept Christ you DON'T have a gaurdian angel?

What then of new born babies?

It is a fairly common belief that all of us have a gaurdian angel... I wonder if thats true?

[Guest]

Every redeemed one will understand the ministry of angels in his own life. The angel who was his guardian from his earliest moment; the angel who watched his steps, and covered his head in the day of peril; the angel who was with him in the valley of the shadow of death, who marked his resting-place, who was the first to greet him in the resurrection morning --what will it be to hold converse with him, and to learn the history of divine interposition in the individual life, of heavenly cooperation in every work for humanity! {AG 364.4}

[ClubV12]

"Every redeemed one..." Well, that settles it for the "redeemed ones", but, what about those who are not professed believers?

dgrimm60, it's pretty clear what happens when the Lord withdraws His protection in the last day events, but I;m a little fuzzy on the details for the here and now events. Or even historic events.

Then there is that troubling statement, "Let the dead bury their dead."

[Gerr]

From the Great Controversy, page 513.

"A guardian angel is appointed to every follower of Christ. These heavenly watchers shield the righteous from the power of the wicked one."

Does this imply that UNTIL you accept Christ you DON'T have a gaurdian angel?

What then of new born babies?

It is a fairly common belief that all of us have a gaurdian angel... I wonder if thats true?

What does the Word say?

[ClubV12]

I don't know Gerry, what does it say?

[SivartM]

What does the Word say?

Nothing.

[ClubV12]

... so the mystery remains. I wonder where people got the idea that everyone has a guardian angel in the first place, if it's not bible based? Wishful thinking maybe? The idea sounds good and is pleasing to the mental state.

Some modern books support the concept (I haven't read any myself) and LOTS of people believe in angels. The down side of thinking "angels are everywhere" makes you suseptible to spiritualism. Evil angels immitating good angels and even working what looks like miracles, saving peoples lives, appearing as the dead, etc.

[John317]

LOTS of people believe in angels. The down side of thinking "angels are everywhere" makes you suseptible to spiritualism.

You all have an influence for good or for evil on the minds and characters of others. And just the influence which you exert is written in the book of records in heaven. An angel is attending you and taking record of your words and actions. When you rise in the morning, do you feel your helplessness and your need of strength from God? and do you humbly, heartily make known your wants to your heavenly Father? If so, angels mark your prayers, and if these prayers have not gone forth out of feigned lips, when you are in danger of unconsciously doing wrong and exerting an influence which will lead others to do wrong, your guardian angel will be by your side, prompting you to a better course, choosing your words for you, and influencing your actions. {CCh 184.2}

Every redeemed one will understand the ministry of angels in his own life. The angel who was his guardian from his earliest moment; the angel who watched his steps, and covered his head in the day of peril; the angel who was with him in the valley of the shadow of death, who marked his resting place, who was the first to greet him in the resurrection morning--what will it be to hold converse with him, and to learn the history of divine interposition in the individual life, of heavenly co-operation in every work for humanity! {Ed 305.2}

A guardian angel is appointed to every follower of Christ. These heavenly watchers shield the righteous from the power of the wicked one. This Satan himself recognized when he said, “Doth Job fear God for naught? Hast not thou

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made a hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side?” [Job 1:9, 10.] The agency by which God protects his people is presented in the words of the psalmist, “The angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.” [Psalm 34:7.] Said the Saviour, speaking of those that believe in him, “Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in Heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father.” [Matthew 18:10.] The angels appointed to minister to the children of God have at all times access to his presence. {GC88 512.2}

If I felt a human influence affecting my testimony, no matter where I might be, I had only to cry to God, and an angel would be sent to my rescue. I already had one guardian angel attending me continually, but when necessary, the Lord would send another to strengthen, and raise me above the power of every earthly influence. Then I saw for the first time the glory of the new earth. {LS80 215.2}

I Shall Meet My Guardian Angel

Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 18:10 {ML 367.1}

Not until the providences of God are seen in the light of eternity shall we understand what we owe to the care and interposition of His angels. Celestial beings have taken an active part in the affairs of men. They have appeared in garments that shone as the lightning; they have come as men, in the garb of wayfarers. They have accepted the hospitalities of human homes; they have acted as guides to benighted travelers. They have thwarted the spoiler's purpose, and turned aside the stroke of the destroyer. {ML 367.2}

ANGELS MARK OUR PRAYERS AND INFLUENCE US FOR GOOD.—When you rise in the morning, do you feel your helplessness and your need of strength from God? and do you humbly, heartily make known your wants to your heavenly Father? If so, angels mark your prayers, and if these prayers have not gone forth out of feigned lips, when you are in danger of unconsciously doing wrong and exerting an influence which will lead others to do wrong, your guardian angel will be by your side, prompting you to a better course, choosing your words for you, and influencing your actions. {Pr 14.2}

If you feel in no danger, and if you offer no prayer for help and strength to resist temptations, you will be sure to go astray; your neglect of duty will be marked in the book of God in heaven, and you will be found wanting in the trying day.—(Testimonies for the Church, vol. 3, 363, 364.) {Pr 14.3}

ANGELS MARK OUR PRAYERS AND PROVIDE HELP.—When you rise in the morning, do you feel your helplessness, and your need of strength from God? and do you humbly, heartily make known your wants to your heavenly Father? If so, angels mark your prayers, and if these prayers have not gone forth out of feigned lips, when you are in danger of unconsciously doing wrong, and exerting an influence which will lead others to do wrong, your guardian angel will be by your side, prompting you to a better course, choosing your words for you, and influencing your actions. {Pr 256.3}

If you feel in no danger, and if you offer no prayer for help and strength to resist temptations, you will be sure to go astray; your neglect of duty will be marked in the book of God in heaven, and you will be found wanting in the trying day.—(Messages to Young People, 90.) {Pr 256.4}

GOD SENDS REINFORCEMENTS OF ANGELS TO OUR AID IN ANSWER TO PRAYER.—If Satan sees that he is in danger of losing one soul, he will exert himself to the utmost to keep that one. And when the individual is aroused to his danger, and, with distress and fervor, looks to Jesus for strength, Satan fears that he will lose a captive, and he calls a reinforcement of his angels to hedge in the poor soul, and form a wall of darkness around him, that heaven’s light may not reach him. But if the one in danger perseveres, and in his helplessness

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casts himself upon the merits of the blood of Christ, our Saviour listens to the earnest prayer of faith, and sends a reinforcement of those angels that excel in strength to deliver him. Satan cannot endure to have his powerful rival appealed to, for he fears and trembles before His strength and majesty. At the sound of fervent prayer, Satan’s whole host trembles. He continues to call legions of evil angels to accomplish his object. And when angels, all-powerful, clothed with the armory of heaven, come to the help of the fainting, pursued soul, Satan and his host fall back, well knowing that their battle is lost. The willing subjects of Satan are faithful, active, and united in one object. And although they hate and war with one another, yet they improve every opportunity to advance their common interest. But the great Commander in heaven and earth has limited Satan’s power. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, 345, 346.) {Pr 256.5}

[ClubV12]

John the above quotes are, again, making referrence to someone who has professed to follow Christ. When that person does so, makes a profession, he is AT THAT TIME assigned a guardian angel.

"A guardian angel is appointed to every follower of Christ."

Implying that was not the case BEFORE that person was a follower of Christ.

The question remains unanswered:

Do those WHO DO NOT profess to follow Christ have a "guardian angel"? We KNOW the followers of Christ have one.

[John317]

Guardian angels are only appointed to every follower of Christ. They shield the righteous from the power of the devil and of his demons.

[ClubV12]

Thats what I was thinking!!!! If your not a follower of Christ you DON'T have a guardian angel. I haven't been able to find anyone that thinks this is true, or perhaps I should say they "question" the hypothesis. And yet, they cannot cite any source that indicates "all" have a gaurdian angel.

The secondary question would then be:

How is it that most people have come to the conclusion that all of us have a guardian angel, even the heathen?

[John317]

The secondary question would then be:

How is it that most people have come to the conclusion that all of us have a guardian angel, even the heathen?

Probably wishful thinking instead of being based on special revelation. We can only know these things if God reveals them.

[Gerr]

I don't know Gerry, what does it say?

It's not "nothing" as Sivart says. Here is what it says:

ESV | Mt 18:10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.

ESV | Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

ESV | Lk 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

The "little ones" referred to in Mt 18:10 are children who may or may not have yet accepted God/Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. Without the angels protecting even the unbelievers, the devil would snuff them out every chance he has to ensure that they would have no chance for heaven. Guardian angels are also sent to unbelievers to bring the light of heaven & woo them, battling the forces of darkness for their souls.

[ClubV12]

What we DO know. Those who profess Christ receive a guardian angel who's specific mission, at that time of appointment and beyond, is to protect us from, within limits, the attacks of the temptor.

God's hand holds back the winds of strife to protect all mankind and the earth from total destruction, which should not imply that every single human has a "guardian angel".

I don't know if it's "guardian angels" that bring light to the heathen. God has given every man the inherent ability to understand right from wrong, even if that person grew up as a idol worshiper, indigenous tribal forest dweller or who anyone who has never even heard the name Jesus. That doesn't mean they necessarily have a "ministering angel" on their behalf as this basic knowledge of good vs evil is in all human beings.

Some people will not be raised to judgement at any time after they pass away. They will die once, thats it. This according to Ellen White in reference to some slaves. Who, under their masters care, were so oppressed they were little different than the dumb beasts of the field. With no knowledge of God, no chance to make a decision for good or for evil, but simply lived a life where every detail was commanded by someone else. In mercy, God will let them rest, this life is all they will know. Such may also be the fate of some very young children, but THAT is total specualtion on my part and speculation can be dangerous, so don't hold me to it.

It could be said, the children of which Jesus spake, were brought to Him by parents seeking His blessing. In other words they were professing to be followers of Jesus.

[Gerr]

What we DO know.

It looks to me that if little children who may not even have the capacity to accept or reject Christ yet have an angel, it stands to reason that adults have them as well.

The angels of glory find their joy in giving,--giving love and tireless watchcare to souls that are fallen and unholy. Heavenly beings woo the hearts of men; they bring to this dark world light from the courts above; by gentle and patient ministry they move upon the human spirit, to bring the lost into a fellowship with Christ which is even closer than they themselves can know. {DA 21.

White, E. G. (1898; 2002). The Desire of Ages; Conflict of the Ages Series, Volume 3; Desire of Ages (21). Pacific Press Publishing Association.

Ministering angels open the eyes of the mind and heart to see wonderful things in the divine law, in the natural world, and in the eternal things revealed by the Holy Spirit. [bEGIN P.292] {ML 291.7}

White, E. G. (1952; 2002). My Life Today (291–292). Review and Herald Publishing Association.

[ClubV12]

Well, I guess it could be said we all (all as in believers and non-believers) have an angel or angels in our attendance to some degree. I'm a little fuzzy on whether those who are NOT professed followers of Christ have one specifically assigned to them or not though. Looks like that is something we will know for sure when the time comes.

As to the "little children" there may be other factors that come into play as to who or which group of them have or have not specific "guardian angels". It may be related to their parents faith, for instance.

Now we KNOW some very young children will be raised at His secomd coming. But I'm not sure that is "universal", in that ALL young children are included in the group.

Would it "risk eternal happiness" to allow any person or young person to come into the kingdom who never had a chance to experience "choice"? To make a "choice" for good or for evil? One who has NOT seen and understood the love of Jesus?

It was noted of the slaves who would not be raised: the reason is because they had never had a chance to make a "choice", or to understand the love of God. You could make a case for very young children that would also fall into that group.

How young is to young to understand the concept of love of Jesus, right and wrong, choice? EGW says by age two, the character is "set", whatever that means exactly...

[Tobiwan]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

What does the Word say?

Nothing.

The Bible seems clear to me. Those who have started on the Path, or at least profess to have started, have angels to guard and guide.

The others need extra and the record (Word) states, "Lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the world."

Jesus and the Holy Spirit are there to get things started, then turn it over to the guardian angels to serve and protect.

make sense? does to me

[Tobiwan]

Another thought came to me after the above post. Those on the Lords side who survive to go through the final days will need extra protection and it sounds like they will get just what they need.

[John317]

You're right.

I believe the evidence show that before Chrsit returns, many faithful Christians, including many SDAs, will be martyred for their faith. I believe that will yet happen in the United States. But no true follower of Christ will be martyred AFTER the end of probation.

Ellen White says that the angels will actually appear as men and will defend faithful SDAs against attack. See Last Day Events.

[John317]

So much for Sivart's "nothing."

Most people don't know this, but God's angels literally guard and surround the homes of God's faithful people, keeping us safe from the influence and attacks by evil angels. They actually do some kind of "battle" that is more than simply a battle of "thoughts." When we get to heaven, we are going to be amazed at what happened when we didn't know anything about it and even while we were doubting God's goodness and love.

I am already ashamed at what I've put my guardian and recording angels through. If I had been them, I would have given up on me a long time ago. They probably asked God a few times, "Uhh, are you sure you want us to still stay with this, uh, this foolish person? I'm getting kind of discouraged. Don't you have a more promising prospect for me to keep my eyes? How long am I assigned here anyway? I need a break!"

[ClubV12]

How young is to young to know and follow the Lord's ways?

There was a King of Israel in the bible that was eight years old and did all according to the Lord. Jesus was much older at twelve when He entered into His first deep theological discussion with learned men.

Any other examples, younger than eight, of men (mankind?) who clearly manifested themselves as followers of God?

EGW says something about the character being "set" by age two. Perhaps that is indicative of how young a child may be and set his path to follow the Lord, or not?

Of course much of this depends on the parents and the childs upbringing from birth.

While it could be argued every human on earth has a "protective" angel(s) holding back the "winds of strife" (evil angels that would kill us all without a second thought) a specific "guardian angel" appears to be a separate class. Not all persons are appointed this special class of angelic protection, or so my theory goes...

[skyblue888]

I have read that everyone born into this world is automatically given a guardian angel. But at the new birth an extra angel is given. I read that in the SoP.

sky

[teresaq]

ESV | Mt 18:10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven.

ESV | Heb 1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

ESV | Lk 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

The "little ones" referred to in Mt 18:10 are children who may or may not have yet accepted God/Jesus as their Lord and Saviour. Without the angels protecting even the unbelievers, the devil would snuff them out every chance he has to ensure that they would have no chance for heaven. Guardian angels are also sent to unbelievers to bring the light of heaven & woo them, battling the forces of darkness for their souls.

I think your and Tobiwan's posts are the most accurate according to my understanding of God.

While I don't know where you stand on this, Gerry, it seems to me, that if we don't believe that the word of God is powerful on it's own to vanquish Satan and his angels then we really don't understand the power of the word. Maybe we need to restudy the life of Christ as presented in the scriptures and Desire of Ages, to see how Christ did not need to grab a sword and drive Satan off, nor did He need to call any of His angels.

There is something about the word...

Hebrews 4:12

For the word of God is quick, (living) and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Hebrews 1:3

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Matthew 8:8

The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

8:28And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

29And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

30And there was a good way off from them an herd of many swine feeding.

31So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.

32And he said unto them, Go....