IS GOD JUST?

[miz3]

In 2Kings chapter one is the story of Elijah and the death of Ahaziah.

In the story God through Elijah kills 100 men who appear to have done nothing wrong except to do their duty the best they knew how?

Is God "just" in simply disposing of these 100 persons? Isn't this treating them like so disposable pawns in chess game?

How does such an action square with God's Love and His Mercy and the other attributes we are so fond of?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The Old Testament is full of stories that make God appear to be a maniacal killer of innocents. SDA's are not the only denomination that struggle with that paradox.

[miz3]

I agree that this is only one example of many that could be made. I also agree that this seems to be a paradox.

The question is, is this really an UNSOLVABLE paradox or is there a solution that explains the paradox?

[Haldog]

I don't see that God had any choice in the matter. Elijah was undoubtedly a man of God and it looks like he had God between a rock and a hard place the way he worded his statement. "If I am a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven ....."

Kind of like when Jesus was walking on the water and Peter said "Lord if it is You, then command me to come to You on the water" What was Jesus supposed to say? "No, I'm not Jesus?" Do you think Jesus was planning on Peter asking that question? The only time Peter ever took his foot out of his mouth was to stick the other one in!

Back to II Kings. Ahaziah, the 8th ruler of the northern kingdom, was as evil as his father and mother, Ahab and Jezebel. And to call on Baal? That was too much. God knows who Baal is, the precursor to Islam and the Assyrian, the anti-Christ.

[John317]

In 2Kings chapter one is the story of Elijah and the death of Ahaziah.

In the story God through Elijah kills 100 men who appear to have done nothing wrong except to do their duty the best they knew how?

Those men insulted God and His prophet, and they were supporting a rebellious king who was under the rulership of God Himself, who was the true King of Israel. If Ahaziah and the captains truly believed Elijah was a prophet of God , they would not have been demanding that he surrender himself to Ahaziah. Their tone was clearly one of demanding that the prophet of God obey the king's command, which the king had no right or authority to do, since king Ahaziah was merely a servant of God.

2 Kings 1: 13-15 shows that when the captain who was sent to deliver the message humbled himself before God, his life and the life of his men were spared.

What do we learn from what we read in 2 Kings 1? We learn, first of all, that when we turn away from God and seek the help of God's enemy, Satan, God removes his protecting hand from us and gives us over to the "Baal-zebub," which is another name for the Devil. God cannot protect those who have turned against Him and sought the favor and protection of the wicked.

Secondly, we see an illustration of what will happen in the destruction of the wicked at the end of the one thousand years, when fire will come down from God out of heaven and destroy and consume all sin and sinners. Compare 2 Kings 1: 10, 12 and Rev. 20: 9. It is very similar the destruction of Sodom, as desribed in Jude 7; 2 Peter 2: 6-10; and Gen. 19: 24-29. It's a serious thing to turn against the God of heaven. Many do it without even being aware they are doing it.

Those who believe in Ellen White as the true prophet of God, see PK 207-212.

Quote:

The history of King Ahaziah's sin and its punishment has in it a warning which none can disregard with impunity. Men today may not pay homage to heathen gods, yet thousands are worshiping at Satan's shrine as verily as did the king of Israel. The spirit of idolatry is rife in the world today, although, under the influence of science and education, it has assumed forms more refined and attractive than in the days when Ahaziah sought to the god of Ekron. Every day adds its sorrowful evidence that faith in the sure word of prophecy is decreasing, and that in its stead superstition and satanic witchery are captivating the minds of many. {PK 210.1}

Today the mysteries of heathen worship are replaced by the secret association and seances, the obscurities and wonders, of spiritistic mediums. The disclosures of these mediums are eagerly received by thousands who refuse to accept light from God's word or through His Spirit. Believers in spiritism may speak with scorn of the magicians of old, but the great deceiver laughs in triumph as they yield to his arts under a different form. {PK 210.2}

There are many who shrink with horror from the thought of consulting spirit mediums, but who are attracted by more pleasing forms of spiritism. Others are led astray by the teachings of Christian Science, and by the mysticism of Theosophy and other Oriental religions.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Today the mysteries of heathen worship are replaced by the secret association and seances, the obscurities and wonders, of spiritistic mediums. The disclosures of these mediums are eagerly received by thousands who refuse to accept light from God's word or through His Spirit. Believers in spiritism may speak with scorn of the magicians of old, but the great deceiver laughs in triumph as they yield to his arts under a different form. {PK 210.2}

There are many who shrink with horror from the thought of consulting spirit mediums, but who are attracted by more pleasing forms of spiritism. Others are led astray by the teachings of Christian Science, and by the mysticism of Theosophy and other Oriental religions.

That should have been the opening Forward in the book I just got done editing.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: miz3

In 2Kings chapter one is the story of Elijah and the death of Ahaziah.

In the story God through Elijah kills 100 men who appear to have done nothing wrong except to do their duty the best they knew how?

Those men insulted God and His prophet, and they were supporting a rebellious king who was under the rulership of God Himself, who was the true King of Israel. If Ahaziah and the captains truly believed Elijah was a prophet of God , they would not have been demanding that he surrender himself to Ahaziah. Their tone was clearly one of demanding that the prophet of God obey the king's command, which the king had no right or authority to do, since king Ahaziah was merely a servant of God.

2 Kings 1: 13-15 shows that when the captain who was sent to deliver the message humbled himself before God, his life and the life of his men were spared.

What do we learn from what we read in 2 Kings 1? We learn, first of all, that when we turn away from God and seek the help of God's enemy, Satan, God removes his protecting hand from us and gives us over to the "Baal-zebub," which is another name for the Devil. God cannot protect those who have turned against Him and sought the favor and protection of the wicked.

Secondly, we see an illustration of what will happen in the destruction of the wicked at the end of the one thousand years, when fire will come down from God out of heaven and destroy and consume all sin and sinners. Compare 2 Kings 1: 10, 12 and Rev. 20: 9. It is very similar the destruction of Sodom, as desribed in Jude 7; 2 Peter 2: 6-10; and Gen. 19: 24-29. It's a serious thing to turn against the God of heaven. Many do it without even being aware they are doing it.

Those who believe in Ellen White as the true prophet of God, see PK 207-212.

Quote:

The history of King Ahaziah's sin and its punishment has in it a warning which none can disregard with impunity. Men today may not pay homage to heathen gods, yet thousands are worshiping at Satan's shrine as verily as did the king of Israel. The spirit of idolatry is rife in the world today, although, under the influence of science and education, it has assumed forms more refined and attractive than in the days when Ahaziah sought to the god of Ekron. Every day adds its sorrowful evidence that faith in the sure word of prophecy is decreasing, and that in its stead superstition and satanic witchery are captivating the minds of many. {PK 210.1}

Today the mysteries of heathen worship are replaced by the secret association and seances, the obscurities and wonders, of spiritistic mediums. The disclosures of these mediums are eagerly received by thousands who refuse to accept light from God's word or through His Spirit. Believers in spiritism may speak with scorn of the magicians of old, but the great deceiver laughs in triumph as they yield to his arts under a different form. {PK 210.2}

There are many who shrink with horror from the thought of consulting spirit mediums, but who are attracted by more pleasing forms of spiritism. Others are led astray by the teachings of Christian Science, and by the mysticism of Theosophy and other Oriental religions.

Exactly John, the problem is, many want answers, but want no part of the answers that EGW has to give. This was one of her responsiblities as prophet, to fill in the questions people had when reading passages like this that don't always tell the whole story. To guess and use are minds is OK, but sometimes as I have seen, many don't like what they read and see and ask why would God do this or that. And EGW answers this but we want no part of that. Just incredible.

[Gerr]

Can't seem to find, "God is just" in my ESV, NASB, NRSV, or KJV, so He must not be.

[Gail]

Can't seem to find, "God is just" in my ESV, NASB, NRSV, or KJV, so He must not be.

Hmm, sounds like another topic that's going on right now...

[phkrause]

Can't seem to find, "God is just" in my ESV, NASB, NRSV, or KJV, so He must not be.

I know you don't believe that Gerry.

[Woody]

Can't seem to find, "God is just" in my ESV, NASB, NRSV, or KJV, so He must not be.

I've always had my doubts about your theology Gerry. Now, I no longer doubt. I know.

[miz3]

Exactly John, the problem is, many want answers, but want no part of the answers that EGW has to give. This was one of her responsiblities as prophet, to fill in the questions people had when reading passages like this that don't always tell the whole story. To guess and use are minds is OK, but sometimes as I have seen, many don't like what they read and see and ask why would God do this or that. And EGW answers this but we want no part of that. Just incredible.

pkrause,

I do not recall in anything I said, including the question I initiated here that said no one could use Ellen White to answer question, IS GOD JUST?

I gave an example from the Bible and asked if God was just in incinerating 100 seemingly innocent people.

You many answer this question using any source you want. Unlike other questions I have posed where I did ask others to answer using the Bible and the Bible only. Those questions were different. In this current question I did not stipulate that answer were to be restricted in any way.

Even if the questioner wants to "restrict" the question people can still answer the question they way they want. I do think it is courteous to try and accommodate the questioner when they want answers using a "restriction".

Again in this case the question was asked without restriction.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Can't seem to find, "God is just" in my ESV, NASB, NRSV, or KJV, so He must not be.

I've always had my doubts about your theology Gerry. Now, I no longer doubt. I know.

tic, my boy. tic. You should know me by now!