Is love before marriage better?

[koky]

Is love before marriage better?: http://bit.ly/eMjFPB

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Is love before marriage better?: http://bit.ly/eMjFPB

DO NOT CLICK ON THE HYPERLINK - IT IS A VIRUS

[Gerr]

I did not follow the link because Pam says it's a virus. But to answer your question -

Most Americans probably marry for love. But for at least 50% if not more, it's all downhill after the altar. I had Indian colleagues who had arranged marriages in which I was told that love comes later. Their divorce stats are much better (less divorce).

[Stan]

not seeing that as a virus

this is where it ends

http://www.islam-center.net/en/articles-mgz/212-is-love-before-marriage-better.html

Looks like koky is trying to enlighten us with current Islamic thought.

[doug yowell]

I did not follow the link because Pam says it's a virus. But to answer your question -

Most Americans probably marry for love. But for at least 50% if not more, it's all downhill after the altar. I had Indian colleagues who had arranged marriages in which I was told that love comes later. Their divorce stats are much better (less divorce).

That has been my experience too. Physical, emotional, and financial commitments are aspects of love (fidelity). Arranged marriages when agreed upon can create a love that isn't a slave to fleeting and often irrational emotional challenges.The history of the world is full of long,happy non-westernized marriages.Many even live happily ever after,Islamic or not.Even Rhett Butler almost had one.

[Dr. Shane]

I don't think arranged marriages are the solution. I think the solution is for the couple to submit to the guidance of their godly parents and those in the church that are in positions to guide those contemplating marriage.

The reason there is so much divorce is because their is so much self. Self is acid in a marriage. A perfect marriage would be two people completely giving themselves to each other. Of course no marriage is perfect because no one person - let alone two - are perfectly unselfish in regard to another.

When my wife and I got married we both consulted our parents and followed their advice. We both got the book "Letters To Young Lovers" and read it completely.

Many do not understand what love is. Many confuse love with infatuation believing it is an emotion of endearment. What is going on is that during this period of infatuation that our serotonin levels are low and our dopamine levels are high. Serotonin helps us make reasonable decisions and dopamine can cause us to be impulsive. That alone explains why many people not listening to their parents or church leaders make bad decisions when it comes to marriage. The infatuation will normally run its course within 18 months but can stretch out to 24 months. Many marry during this period of infatuation and when it goes away they *feel* their love has decreased or gone completely.

Love is a principle - not a feeling. I discipline my children because I love them. My mother called the police on her drug-addict son (me) because she loved him. The Bible says that Jesus rebukes and chastises all that He loves. Feelings come and go. We feel happy, we feel sad, we feel disappointed, we feel anxious, we feel angry, etc. Feelings are temporary states of mind. Love isn't temporary. Love can be summarized in two words "acceptance" and "commitment". When I love someone I accept them for who they are and I commit myself to their well-being. I don't even have to meet somebody to love them.

As for me and my marriage, my love for my wife grows deeper and deeper as time goes on. What does that mean? It means my acceptance of her as she is and my commitment to her well-being grows deeper and deeper as time goes on. Each day I think I can't possibly love her more than I already do only to wake up a few days or weeks later and realize I love her more than I ever did before. Love does grow when we invest ourselves in the object of our love.

[Bravus]

On the other hand, our pre-marriage counsellor said we might have problems with Sue being outgoing and me being shy - and we're blissfully happy nearly a quarter-century on.

And I love your last para, Shane, and feel that way too. Ain't love grand?

[phkrause]

I did not follow the link because Pam says it's a virus. But to answer your question -

Most Americans probably marry for love. But for at least 50% if not more, it's all downhill after the altar. I had Indian colleagues who had arranged marriages in which I was told that love comes later. Their divorce stats are much better (less divorce).

Jews did this for many years ago also. Can't remember where I read this but pre-arranged marriages have or had a very low divorce rate. And also read that its still being used in some countries today.

[Dr. Shane]

I read that the American founders wanted to get away from pre-arranged marriages. Many of the European countries had pre-arranged marriage and did not allow divorce except for the very elite. The founders allowed divorce to every class of citizen (when grounds existed). The idea was that marriage should be based on love. In order for marriage to be based on love, not only should the lovers choose of their own free will to get married, but they should be allowed to leave the marriage when it became loveless.

Does anyone venture to guess if the adultery rate is higher in arranged marriages?

[ClubV12]

Being a single guy and not necessarily contemplating a union, but, being a single guy, I did a short study on what Ellen White had to say about courtship. I was left with the distinct impression it wasn't that far away from "arranged marriage"!

Like Shane mentioned, counsel with the appropriate people BEFORE even entering a courtship is like #1. And the reason(s) FOR this courtship? A union to carry forward the work of God! James and Ellen decided to join first and foremost because SHE needed a "protecter" for her time and station in life, an help mate. I am left with the impression it was mostly a "logical" solution to a problem that needed to be addressed. Pretty close to an "arranged" marriage if you would!

The main reason I remain single is because I began a "spiritual quest" about ten years ago, culminating in joining the Seventh Day Adventist church. I didn't know where it would lead when I began but I was convinced that having a spouse along for the ride would greatly complicate, if not de-rail, that quest.

Now, I would only consider a spouse if such a union would allow for a greater work to be done for the Lord than I could accomplish by myself. I don't see that happening in the future, but I'm not totally closed to the idea either. Should the need arise and after careful counsel with the appropriate people.

Both Paul and Ellen White have some pretty strong counsel about staying single, counsel I take seriously.

[MariaS]

The problem of the American society and all the other part of the world is not because they have married with the person, not because they dont love each other. Its the woring motives as to why they are marrying that person such as:

1) She/he can help me financially

2) She/he will make me happy

3) She/he will give me a child

4) She/he will give me ssexual satisfaction

5) I can have her/his wealth

6) He is handsome/she is pretty

7) She can keep my house clean and polish my shoes

8) she can cook for me (without thinking that he can cook for her when she is sick or too tired to cook)

and etc etc

There are seldome people think of marrying some because:

1) I can protect her

2) I can bless him

3) we can honor God together

4) I want to take care of his/her parents

5) I love her/him and accept her/him just as she/he is

6) I can be a good father to her children

7) I can be a good mother to her children

8) We can be a good business partner that will honor God

9) I can encourage her

10) I can make himself proud of his achievement

and etc etc

No wonder divorce rate is increasing, because people are marrying for the wrong reasons, SELFISH MOTIVES

[Doug]

The problem of the American society and all the other part of the world is not because they have married with the person, not because they dont love each other. Its the woring motives as to why they are marrying that person such as:

1) She/he can help me financially

2) She/he will make me happy

3) She/he will give me a child

4) She/he will give me sexual satisfaction

5) I can have her/his wealth

6) He is handsome/she is pretty

7) She can keep my house clean and polish my shoes

8) she can cook for me (without thinking that he can cook for her when she is sick or too tired to cook)

and etc etc

There are seldome people think of marrying some because:

1) I can protect her

2) I can bless him

3) we can honor God together

4) I want to take care of his/her parents

5) I love her/him and accept her/him just as she/he is

6) I can be a good father to her children

7) I can be a good mother to her children

8) We can be a good business partner that will honor God

9) I can encourage her

10) I can make himself proud of his achievement

and etc etc

No wonder divorce rate is increasing, because people are marrying for the wrong reasons, SELFISH MOTIVES

I've decided to wait. I thought I "needed" to be in a relationship with someone because society looks down on single folk, especially when you hit a certain age. But I have decided that the most important thing in my life is my relationship with Christ, this has to be #1.

I also think people hook up for the wrong reasons. I think a lot of people do it because they "need" someone, you marry someone because you make a whole new person between the two of you.

[phkrause]

The problem of the American society and all the other part of the world is not because they have married with the person, not because they dont love each other. Its the woring motives as to why they are marrying that person such as:

1) She/he can help me financially

2) She/he will make me happy

3) She/he will give me a child

4) She/he will give me ssexual satisfaction

5) I can have her/his wealth

6) He is handsome/she is pretty

7) She can keep my house clean and polish my shoes

8) she can cook for me (without thinking that he can cook for her when she is sick or too tired to cook)

and etc etc

There are seldome people think of marrying some because:

1) I can protect her

2) I can bless him

3) we can honor God together

4) I want to take care of his/her parents

5) I love her/him and accept her/him just as she/he is

6) I can be a good father to her children

7) I can be a good mother to her children

8) We can be a good business partner that will honor God

9) I can encourage her

10) I can make himself proud of his achievement

and etc etc

No wonder divorce rate is increasing, because people are marrying for the wrong reasons, SELFISH MOTIVES

Good points MariaS

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

The problem of the American society and all the other part of the world is not because they have married with the person, not because they dont love each other. Its the woring motives as to why they are marrying that person

I attended a camp meeting when I was in college and the speaker was a nurse that worked in a high school. Her husband was a pastor. She said something that really made an impact on me. She said that her husband modeled God to her. Although he was not perfect, she said she learned from his example the type of person God wanted her to be. I took that to heart and understood that I would need to be a husband like that when I got married. God gave me my wife to minister to. Same for my children. When my kids get angry and yell "I hate you", I lovingly reply, "I love you." This normally happens just after they get punished. Their punishment stands but I let them know I love them.

[phkrause]

I attended a camp meeting when I was in college and the speaker was a nurse that worked in a high school. Her husband was a pastor. She said something that really made an impact on me. She said that her husband modeled God to her. Although he was not perfect, she said she learned from his example the type of person God wanted her to be. I took that to heart and understood that I would need to be a husband like that when I got married. God gave me my wife to minister to. Same for my children. When my kids get angry and yell "I hate you", I lovingly reply, "I love you." This normally happens just after they get punished. Their punishment stands but I let them know I love them.

[Gary K]

There is one reason marriages break down, and one reason alone: Selfishness.

We live a culture that teaches each of us that everything around me must serve me, and that I need not serve anyone else, that I am the center of the universe. IOWs, each of us are taught selfishness is the best thing for us.

[Woody]

There is one reason marriages break down, and one reason alone: Selfishness.

We live a culture that teaches each of us that everything around me must serve me, and that I need not serve anyone else, that I am the center of the universe. IOWs, each of us are taught selfishness is the best thing for us.

Good Comments. I agree.

[Gary K]

Originally Posted By: Gary K

There is one reason marriages break down, and one reason alone: Selfishness.

We live a culture that teaches each of us that everything around me must serve me, and that I need not serve anyone else, that I am the center of the universe. IOWs, each of us are taught selfishness is the best thing for us.

Good Comments. I agree.

I'm glad we agree on something, Woody.

[Dr. Shane]

I have come to believe that the word selfishness is interchangeable with the word sin. There are many forms of it. Pride seems the most deadly. How many marriages have died because of pride? The individuals in the marriage were too proud to take an honest look at their own errors. They are too proud took in the mirror and worry about their side of the street. They were too proud to admit wrong when they saw it. They were too proud to reach out for help. Instead of admitting wrong, they dug their heels in deeper until the hole was so big they couldn't get out.

[fccool]

Very "right" answer that every Christian knows how to repeat .

If we drop the "holly act", then perhaps we can see that marriage is pragmatic, and that the purpose of the marriage is not to romanticize our life, but to make it more efficient and fun.

1) You can cut on costs

2) You can share workload

3) You can have fun raising kids

4) You can live with your best friend

5) The three letter Christian's avoid is one of the reason's people marry...

But eventually the idea is to be best friends first, and wife/husband and sexual partners later. If you can't imagine being with your wife outside of sexual/romantic context... then it's more likely to fall apart because women desire attention.

Marriage is there to meet the needs of both men and women. Call it selfish, but that's what actually makes it work. If you believe that any of these "holy people" crying "selfish" were married for unselfish reasons... it's all an act to appear more holy.

The idea of marriage, is the idea of two "selves" coming together to use each other's knowledge, resources, time, sexual organs, money and relatives Quid-pro-Quo is what makes it tick!

Where it falls apart is when one person is hyped up into being the "perfect husband", or "perfect wife" and who spends a good couple years being "unselfish", and then ends up divorcing because the other party can't keep up. That's not a good marriage, and the romanticizing/unrealistic expectations what make Christians divorce more often than secular couples. Check the stats.

[Gary K]

Very "right" answer that every Christian knows how to repeat .

If we drop the "holly act", then perhaps we can see that marriage is pragmatic, and that the purpose of the marriage is not to romanticize our life, but to make it more efficient and fun.

1) You can cut on costs

2) You can share workload

3) You can have fun raising kids

4) You can live with your best friend

5) The three letter Christian's avoid is one of the reason's people marry...

But eventually the idea is to be best friends first, and wife/husband and sexual partners later. If you can't imagine being with your wife outside of sexual/romantic context... then it's more likely to fall apart because women desire attention.

Marriage is there to meet the needs of both men and women. Call it selfish, but that's what actually makes it work. If you believe that any of these "holy people" crying "selfish" were married for unselfish reasons... it's all an act to appear more holy.

The idea of marriage, is the idea of two "selves" coming together to use each other's knowledge, resources, time, sexual organs, money and relatives Quid-pro-Quo is what makes it tick!

Where it falls apart is when one person is hyped up into being the "perfect husband", or "perfect wife" and who spends a good couple years being "unselfish", and then ends up divorcing because the other party can't keep up. That's not a good marriage, and the romanticizing/unrealistic expectations what make Christians divorce more often than secular couples. Check the stats.

fccool,

You sure have some prejudicial feelings. Your prejudices run deeply and widely, and color your perceptions pretty strongly.

I'm pretty sure you're referring to me, and other conservative SDAs here as the "holy people". My statement on selfishness is from my own experience and from watching marriages of friends fall apart.

I've been married for almost 30 years now, and not all of those years have been happy ones. Why? Because both my wife and I were much more selfish when we got married. We married for selfish reasons, pure and simple. She got married because she wanted certain things, and so did I, and not all those certains things were sex.

It took us a long time to learn to live for each other as we both came from very dysfunctional families. Both of us needed to become converted Christians before our marriage really improved.

I came out of a home in which I was never told that I was loved. I was so insecure I had an eye that liked to wander. She came out of a marriage in which her husband used to drive down the street and ask her why she couldn't be as sexy and beautiful as this or that woman walking down the street. He ended up having several affairs before he left her. She, not surprisingly, had zero trust in men.

If you think selfishness didn't reign in our marriage you're nuts. The only thing that has allowed this marriage to last 30 years, and for my wife and I to now truly love each other is God's love becoming a part of us and removing that selfishness.

But, you just go right ahead and keep your prejudices against anyone who believes God can change our hearts, as you seem to feel very strongly that anyone who believes that is a legalist who just likes to slam other people and believes they are perfect.

[Dr. Shane]

Most everything I do has a tinge of selfishness to it so I can't claim that I did not get married for selfish reasons. I felt a tug to get married for the most part because I didn't want to be alone and I wanted to have my sexual instinct satisfied. However at the time I got married I had been clean and sober in a recovery program for 11 years. The whole emphasis of the recovery program is to strive to live less selfishly. So I approached marriage with an attitude of ministering to my spouse by meeting her needs.

I don't think lofty goals and ambitions for one's self hurt marriage at all. However I think making such lofty goals and ambitions into expectations that we place on our spouses can most certainly harm our marriages because when they fail to meet our unrealistic expectations we get angry, hurt or depressed and feel the "love" is leaving our marriage. In reality, no one is perfect and not everyone has the same abilities so we need to be very cautious about placing expectations on our spouses. I think we do good if we accept our spouses as they are with all their defects and spend most of our time looking in the mirror and being concern how we can be better spouses and parents.

[doug yowell]

Marriage is there to meet the needs of both men and women. Call it selfish, but that's what actually makes it work. If you believe that any of these "holy people" crying "selfish" were married for unselfish reasons... it's all an act to appear more holy.

Without some of the extra jabs ,ya make some good pragmatic points,cool.Perhaps it should noted that the original reason for marriage was simply that it was "not good for the man to be alone." Selfish???

[phkrause]

Perhaps it should noted that the original reason for marriage was simply that it was "not good for the man to be alone." Selfish???

Wasn't that God's words? If that be the case, than how would that be selfish? He had a better purpose for us to be married or as he says one flesh. I can agree with Shane about us as individuals who are now far from the ideal that God intended, as having selfish reasons for be married, and probably anything else we do.

[LifeHiscost]

Arranged marriages when agreed upon can create a love that isn't a slave to fleeting and often irrational emotional challenges.

When dating before my last marriage, each person I chose to marry, not trusting myself because of former failure, I asked God to make the final decision.

Our marriage was arranged by God, when His choice and our love coincided. Not only has the marriage lasted but we are still happily in love going on 34 years of wedded joy.

God blesses!