DON'T quote Ellen White...

[ClubV12]

"We do not solve it by claiming that the Bible tells us to ignore prophets."

I totally agree with that Bob. I believe there will be folks with the prophetic gift in the future, again, besides Ellen White. Certainly the tests for such a prophet must apply. Satan came to Jesus as an angel of light and Jesus, at first, was not sure who it was. Until he spoke, by his words he revealed himself.

I've heard it said mothers explain to their children that they will know it's really Jesus when He comes because his feet won't touch the earth. True enough, but I gotta wonder, will others claim to be Him and work miracles whose feet also won't touch the ground?

We cannot trust what we see, what we feel. We can trust the bible, but we need to be careful in our study to make sure we understand what we are reading, to interpret it correctly. That only happens with the Holy Spirit as our guide. Those without the Spirit will surely fall for the false god's working miracles and speaking much "truth".

The prophets bring clairity to the word of God, it's what they do.

[Woody]

Quote:

The prophets bring clairity to the word of God, it's what they do.

Prophets are human. We simply don't need them. Scripture and the Holy Spirit is all we need. Now if we aren't doing turning to the Word ... then some might need a prophet to turn them to scripture. But that is not my case. So I don't need them.

[Gerr]

Quote:

The prophets bring clairity to the word of God, it's what they do.

Prophets are human. We simply don't need them. Scripture and the Holy Spirit is all we need. Now if we aren't doing turning to the Word ... then some might need a prophet to turn them to scripture. But that is not my case. So I don't need them.

I wonder if that's what Zedekiah said as he cut up Jeremiah's letter and threw it in the fire.

[Gary K]

In all seriousness - I don't need ANY prophet to tell me ANYthing. If I am serious - I will find it in scripture and through prayer.

Well, then you don't need the Bible. How many books of the Bible were written by prophets? Most of the Bible, including most of the NT, is now useless to you because most its writers prophesied at one time or another, therefore they fit even the narrowest definition of prophet. You are left with only a very small Bible.

Sometimes you just don't seem to grasp the import of what you say.

[Woody]

Thanks for the twist. But I meant ALL of the bible when I referred to 'scripture'.

Unlike some here - I don't consider EGW to be scripture. No how no way.

[Bravus]

Which is what she herself said. Odd, logically, that those who treat her every word as inspired don't treat those words of hers that way...

[Woody]

Which is what she herself said. Odd, logically, that those who treat her every word as inspired don't treat those words of hers that way...

Exactly. They appear to have extremely selective hearing when it comes to our prophet.

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

Which is what she herself said. Odd, logically, that those who treat her every word as inspired don't treat those words of hers that way...

Exactly. They appear to have extremely selective hearing when it comes to our prophet.

I agree to an extent with this assessment. My problem is than, why was she asked to write these books?? What's God's reason than for her to write to his church????? So that they should ignore her? See I don't understand that, because there are places in the Bible like Creation, the Flood, just to mention a couple, there are others. That people have a problem understanding. So she seems to fill those in pretty well Just throwing out my thoughts here.

[ClubV12]

Well Paul does say at one point he is expressing his opinion on marriage, not holding anyone's feet to the fire either way on that issue.

Ellen White has also clearly stated at times her opinion on an issue.

In BOTH cases it is also clear there are times when they (the Lord's messengers) are distinctly speaking under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

It's not all that hard to distinguish the difference, but it's not always easy either. I look for the principles involved not the people or the item itself in some cases. Much the same way you interpret bible passages!

[phkrause]

Well Paul does say at one point he is expressing his opinion on marriage, not holding anyone's feet to the fire either way on that issue.

Ellen White has also clearly stated at times her opinion on an issue.

In BOTH cases it is also clear there are times when they (the Lord's messengers) are distinctly speaking under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

It's not all that hard to distinguish the difference, but it's not always easy either.

[Woody]

Well Paul does say at one point he is expressing his opinion on marriage, not holding anyone's feet to the fire either way on that issue.

Ellen White has also clearly stated at times her opinion on an issue.

In BOTH cases it is also clear there are times when they (the Lord's messengers) are distinctly speaking under the direction of the Holy Spirit.

It's not all that hard to distinguish the difference, but it's not always easy either. I look for the principles involved not the people or the item itself in some cases.

The abusive and dangerous part is when we try to promote ALL of her writings.

Good comments. Personally I find that each person has their agenda as to what they want to proclaim is from God and what isn't. It does create confusion.

[skyblue888]

I dont know why there should be any confusion as how we are to read and study her writings. The Lord has already told us. "The testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages given, as Scripture is explained by Scripture." 1 S.M.42.

I am not talking about Mrs. White's opinions on anything but about the Testimonies.

sky

[BobRyan]

The Bible is sufficient.

And the Bible says that if you want to survive - you had better listen to God's prophets (2Chronicles 20, 1Thess 5).

in Christ,

Bob

[Scion]

Originally Posted By: Woody

The Bible is sufficient.

And the Bible says that if you want to survive - you had better listen to God's prophets (2Chronicles 20, 1Thess 5).

in Christ,

Bob

Not to mention... we only have the Bible because it was written by prophets. At no point are we told, "Prophets will become obsolete before the end." I agree that prophetic writings can be abused, especially now that we have so many of them, but we're clearly told to listen to them... which we would not have been instructed to do if there were no "need" for them. God does not give His people useless gifts.

[Woody]

The prophet's job is to point us to scripture.

I'm already pointed. So, I don't need any further pointing.

[ClubV12]

A prophets job is also to bring clairity to existing scripture. To build on it, explain it, at times, in greater detail. Making it more relevant to the time in which it was delivered.

The laws of Moses were like that, really, just spelling out in greater detail so "man" could understand more clearly God's ten laws.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Can't a prophet become obsolete once his/her prophecy(ies) have occurred? I'm puzzled by the use of Biblical prophecies which were fulfilled, but we try and take them and apply them to modern times. In fact, it appears that every age had voices that were raised to proclaim the end was near whenever there were earthquakes and floods...

Don't know...just pondering...

[Gerr]

The prophecy may have been fulfilled and therefore obsolete, but the same message still applies because the circumstances that God's people experienced in the past are very much like ours.

[Dr. Rich]

A prophets job is also to bring clairity to existing scripture. To build on it, explain it, at times, in greater detail. Making it more relevant to the time in which it was delivered.

The laws of Moses were like that, really, just spelling out in greater detail so "man" could understand more clearly God's ten laws.

WHAT? NO it's not! Daniel had no idea what some of the things were about that he wrote down. It is NOT the job of any prophet to interpert what God told him to say or write down. John didn't understand Revelation but wrote it down just as he was instructed to do. Where did you get this crazy idea from?

Dan. 12:8-9-10 As for me, I heard but could not understand; so I said, "My Lord, what will be the outcome of these events?" And he said to me "Go your way Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time. Many will be purged, purified and refined; but the wicked will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand."

[ClubV12]

Daniel and the Revelation are an interesting case, difficult to pigeon hole. Their counsel was geared toward and about the distant future. But in many many cases we see the "messenger of the Lord" delivering timely messages to a group of people for their time or for their immediate future.

We know of people in the bible simply referred to as "a man of God", no name. Who are they? We know some people prophesied ONCE and never did it again (70 of them I know of for sure)! There are many versions of what one might call a "prophet" and many different names they may be accurately called by (messenger is one such name).

It has always been God's plan that the people of earth live their lives with the expectancy of His return or appearance at any time. In the mid 1800's Ellen White was convinced the Lord would be returning in HER lifetime, and not when she was "old", but sooner than that! So it shall always be for God's people, we know not when.

[Dr. Rich]

I agree to an extent with this assessment. My problem is than, why was she asked to write these books?? What's God's reason than for her to write to his church????? So that they should ignore her? See I don't understand that, because there are places in the Bible like Creation, the Flood, just to mention a couple, there are others. That people have a problem understanding. So she seems to fill those in pretty well Just throwing out my thoughts here.

[Scion]

The prophet's job is to point us to scripture.

I'm already pointed. So, I don't need any further pointing.

If you're doing all that the Bible indicates, and fulfilling the prophets' instructions, that's great And I'm not being facetious, I really do believe that is the goal (and that it is attainable by faith, and that the saints have this experience). Unfortunately, looking around at the world I can't imagine that we no longer need people who KEEP pointing to Scripture.

And even if there aren't any new revelations or visions for everyone who acts as a prophet (John the Baptist, for example, was very different from Ellen White in terms of their experiences) that doesn't make the prophets' role any less necessary or important.

[skyblue888]

I agree to an extent with this assessment. My problem is than, why was she asked to write these books?? What's God's reason than for her to write to his church????? So that they should ignore her? See I don't understand that, because there are places in the Bible like Creation, the Flood, just to mention a couple, there are others. That people have a problem understanding. So she seems to fill those in pretty well Just throwing out my thoughts here.

Her husband owned a printing shop, isn't that enough evidence to show WHO it was that told her to write books and sell them? It was not God who asked her to write the books no matter who says what about this! Shoot, even Charles Manson said that his god told him to do things, so what makes this any different? Especially when many of the things she wrote were not correct as is the case with Noah preaching. LOL! God NEVER told Noah to preach at all. If he did then he was the worst preacher in the world!

[BobRyan]

The prophet's job is to point us to scripture.

I'm already pointed. So, I don't need any further pointing.

There is not one single text in the Bible that says "ignore God's messages sent to you through His prophets IF you have a Bible that you will accept".

Those who claim to want only the Bible but not God's prophets are in reality saying - I want the Bible I just don't want to follow the instruction IN the bible regarding the fact that we need to accept the messages God sends us through His prophets.

It is a horribly self-conflicted position they take.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Can't a prophet become obsolete once his/her prophecy(ies) have occurred? I'm puzzled by the use of Biblical prophecies which were fulfilled, but we try and take them and apply them to modern times. In fact, it appears that every age had voices that were raised to proclaim the end was near whenever there were earthquakes and floods...

Don't know...just pondering...

If Daniel is "obsoleted by the RCC" then we would not be studying his writing any more.

Since many of Ellen White's prophecies are still to be fulfilled - I guess she is still on the "not-obsoleted" list.

You could delete a lot of the Bible if all you did is stamp each page as "obsoleted" each time you come to a case of fulfilled prophecy.

God's prophets not only predict future events (like the NSL and Plagues and I.J and close of probation etc) but they also proclaim doctrinal truth and insights. In Matt 23 Christ said he would send the Jews more prophets - they would reject them and that they then would be guilty of all the innoncent blood shed on earth.

Thus the "Bible" gives us a warning against going down the path of rejecting God's future prophets.

in Christ,

Bob