How does doing no work on the Sabbath make it holy?

[Sonny]

Details?

Everything that goes to make up this worldly system — nationalism, tribalism, politics, education, commerce, recreation, sports, social clubs, technology, etc. — is founded upon the principle of love of self, even though at times this principle may not be obvious. According to 1 John 2:16, “all that is in the world” (i.e., without exception) is based or founded upon lust (i.e., love of self).

[Flyboy]

I don't necessarily agree that Jesus was poor. I think the Bible is clear that he was not rich, but I think he probably got by okay.

As for education, Jesus proved himself when He was 12. While some of that came from innate awareness, perhaps, I'd argue that His parents and his schooling were a pretty significant factor in his education.

As for recreation... suggesting that Jesus didn't take time to relax is against the Bible. He did. One's idea of recreation may be different from another's, in terms of the relaxation gained, yet it is still recreation.

Technology? How would you have defined technology in His day? Perhaps getting on a boat and going out in a lake so everyone could here Him? You don't think His father used the latest in carpentry tools?

Seems you make a lot of assumptions and use 1 John 2:16 to fit your own interpretation. The Bible was not meant for that. The idea in this verse is that we must stay grounded, we must stay connected to the maker. It does not say we must live a life of poverty. If we did that then how effectively would we reach those who are not living in poverty? How long will a rich man listen to a poor man talk about religion, in this day and age?

[Sonny]

I don't necessarily agree that Jesus was poor.

[Sonny]

I don't necessarily agree that Jesus was poor.

“The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.” Those who follow him must share his poverty. “If any man will come after me,” he declares, “let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.” “So shall ye be my disciples.” [RH 7-4-1912]

Having no place to lay your head is homelessness. That's dirt poor. But Jesus wasn't poor just to be poor. He was poor because He lived in a world dominated by lust, which the Bible defines as self-seeking. Since there was no self-seeking in His life Jesus had nothing.

In order to gain wealth in this world you must practice self-love, which the Bible calls iniquity. Jesus never gave into our bent-to-self. His poverty illustrated this truth.

[Sonny]

In fact, before God's people can experience pure agape love all earthly associates must be cut off. So God's remnant, which is future, will perfectly reflect the image of God:

"Self-love, self-interest, must perish. And the law of self-sacrifice is the law of self-preservation."

“Their earthliness must be removed that the image of Christ may be perfectly reflected.” [4SP 438]

Did you get that? When our love of self...when our self-interests perishes, then we will be able to reflect Christ. Then, and only then, can it be said: "Here are they that keep the commandments of God".

It's coming, folks. The Papacy is already connected to Washington. When God allows, the Papacy will perform false miracles. And our Political leaders will bring this world under a theocracy. This church/state union will renounce the true gospel, i.e., justification by faith alone. The Papacy will act in Christ's place and establish it's own false gospel based on salvation by works. All who refuse this gospel will be cutoff from all earthly support. This is when God's people, those under the banner of justification by faith, will manifest God's agape love to the world.

[BobRyan]

From Welfare Ministry, pg.77

Welfare Ministry on the Sabbath—According to the fourth commandment the Sabbath was dedicated to rest and religious worship. All secular employment was to be suspended, but works of mercy and benevolence were in accordance with the purpose of the Lord. They were not to be limited to time or place. To relieve the afflicted, to comfort the sorrowing, is a labor of love that does honor to God’s holy day.—;Redemption: or the Teachings of Christ, no. 4, p. 46. {WM 77.1}

I thought that was an interesting quote from EGW used by Pastor Dwight Nelson today. So I thought I'd share it.

Good point.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

Maybe the Sabbath itself actually is holy because God said so quite a few times. Here are two quick examples:

Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD:

Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD:

good point.

God said "He MADE it Holy"

Gen 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 20: 11 "" For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

[Sonny]

"Made it Holy" simple means that God set it aside for a special purpose. That purpose was to point to "His rest" from what?

[skyblue888]

The Sabbath is a memorial, Sonny. It will last for ever. On the new earth we will come before God from Sabbath to Sabbath. You know it says that in Isaiah.

When we abide in Christ, we rest from our own works and He does the works. The Sabbath is a memorial of that.

The Sabbath will endure for ever.

sky

[Sonny]

The Sabbath is a memorial, Sonny.

[Flyboy]

Are you homeless Sonny? Use of the word poor has a wide spectrum of definition, just like use of the word "wine" in the Bible. The disparity between rich and poor in Jesus' day is not the same as it is today. Therefore, I would still challenge your assertions that because Jesus was living in "poverty" in his day suggests that we should also live a life of modern-day poverty or homelessness.

Likewise, being a person without a home because one is a traveling, preaching as Jesus did, is not the same as what we mean when we say "homeless" in modern times. I know many very wealthy businessmen here in Asia who are nearly always on the road, thus, essentially being also, like Jesus, homeless. They have a base from which to operate, but spend 80% of their time away from home. Jesus, while we don't know how much time he spent on the road as a preacher, I think it's safe to assume that sometimes he slept in people's homes, and perhaps sometimes he slept in gardens or near the ocean. Doing so in His day likely would not have carried the same stigma as today.

Your application of the words "Poverty", "homeless" and "poor" is inconsistent. Your "fact" therefore, seems less clear. In Jesus life we have very little recorded. Of his ministry, a very short period of his life, we also have little recorded. Is it safe to assume that Jesus led a fairly comfortable life until His ministry began? No assumption is safe, of course, but there is no reason to suggest that this one would be inaccurate.

Again, I'd like to know if you live by the standards you are arguing here.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Having no place to lay your head is homelessness. That's dirt poor. But Jesus wasn't poor just to be poor. He was poor because He lived in a world dominated by lust, which the Bible defines as self-seeking. Since there was no self-seeking in His life Jesus had nothing.

Jesus had a trade which He could have done to earn a living...He worked at it for 33 years, as I recall..

Why was there an accountant/money-keeper in the group of disciples?

Where did they get the money to buy food, clothing? Was it all by donation? If so, how were the donations obtained? Did anyone need to work to buy the donated items?

[CoAspen]

Quote:

Tell us your definition of selfless living and how you accomplish it.

Details, not pious sounding phraseology!

You are avoiding answering the question!! What have / are you doing re:selfless living????

How many times do we ask and not get a reply??

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

selective reading disorder

[Sonny]

Again, I'd like to know if you live by the standards you are arguing here.

No, but for those living under law you guys aren't going to make it. That's my point.

[Sonny]

Jesus had a trade which He could have done to earn a living...He worked at it for 33 years, as I recall..

[Sonny]

I would still challenge your assertions that because Jesus was living in "poverty" in his day suggests that we should also live a life of modern-day poverty or homelessness.

The childhood of Jesus, spent in poverty, had been uncorrupted by the artificial habits of a corrupt age. Working at the carpenter's bench, bearing the burdens of home life, learning the lessons of obedience and toil, He found recreation amidst the scenes of nature, gathering knowledge as He sought to understand nature's mysteries.

The parents of Jesus were poor, and dependent upon their daily toil. He was familiar with poverty, self-denial, and privation.

1] Jesus was born into poverty.

2] Jesus never lived for Himself.

[Parade Orange]

JOHN 13:29

JUDAS held the bag i.e. accountant

or maybe he had the weed

but i think it was money in the bag

back then they kept the gold or silver coins in small sacks tied to the belt

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Originally Posted By: rudywoofs

Jesus had a trade which He could have done to earn a living...He worked at it for 33 years, as I recall..

Jesus helped His dad. He not only helped His family He was also the servant of all. He never lived for Himself, as you infer. Self-seeking & self-interest is the same as coveting and Jesus never sinned.

Quote:

Why was there an accountant/money-keeper in the group of disciples?

You'll have to show me this one from the Bible.

Quote:

Where did they get the money to buy food, clothing?

What did Paul say to the believers of his day? If we have food & clothing with this be content. Food & clothing are necessities.

Thank you, Parade Orange, for answering Sonny's question about the "accountant" among the disciples!

As for Jesus helping His dad: when did Joseph die? The Bible doesn't say. But it does state that Mary and the brothers of Jesus tried to stop Jesus from healing/preaching/helping people. That seems to indicate that Joseph was not around. And Jesus would not have left His mother in the lurch after Joseph died. So..."common sense" would associate Jesus working as a carpenter to support His mother and siblings until His brothers could take over. To do otherwise would have been....selfish.

[Sonny]

Quote:

So..."common sense" would associate Jesus working as a carpenter to support His mother and siblings until His brothers could take over.

Our His brothers took over immediately.

Jesus didn't come to be a carpenter, Jesus came to save the human race.

[Sonny]

JOHN 13:29

"Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the Feast, or to give something to the poor"

Okay....

Jesus wasn't a bum - neither did He covet money & the things it can buy. Jesus planned not, thought not and lived not for Himself. That's what EGW states. The Bible agrees.

In order to eat & have clothing Jesus & the disciples had to work odd jobs now and then. Wouldn't you say? But Christ main function was preaching the gospel & living a life that was pleasing to God.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Sonny has just earned the Official Monthly Backpedaling Award:

[Sonny]

How so?

[BobRyan]

Maybe the Sabbath itself actually is holy because God said so quite a few times. Here are two quick examples:

Exo 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD:

Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD:

[Sonny]

God said "He MADE it Holy"