1888 One more time

[ClubV12]

An important date that keeps coming around again and again. As simple as ABC, as elusive and mysterious as the end of the rainbow.

Near as I can figure, it's the message Ellen White has been preaching since AT LEAST 1888, when Jones and Wagoner brought it to our attention. Seems to me it was also her message before that but we didn't yet have a "name" we could hang on it.

Look to Jesus, don't take your eyes off of Him. Or you'll sink like Peter in the water. What ever else is going on in your life, no matter how "unworthy" and guilty and unforgiven you may feel, don't take your eyes off Jesus. Everything else pales when compared to this one great principal.

So WHAT is the problem, WHY don't we "get it"? I THINK it might be because while recognizing faith and acceptance is our only hope, we recognize our very real responsibility to the "law". So we have this internal battle trying to resolve this conflict. Speak to much of "faith" and people might shun the respect of the law. Speak to much of the law and we ignore faith. A classic Liberal vs Conservative type of deal.

I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the message, righteouness by faith, must be the prominent one. ALMOST to the point of ignoring the "law" completely. Those who truly accept the message and truly love Jesus will just naturally find that "works" follow suit. They can't help it, when you really love Jesus you can't stop telling people about it. Living like He would have you live. It just naturally "flows". Now those who accept the message as an "easy way out" and dismiss works never got the message in the first place! And there's nothing you can do about it. No amount of "preaching" about works and the law will make any difference anyway.

Keep your eyes on Jesus, it's as simple as ABC. Everything else will fall in place. Well, it sounds easy, I think I'm going to try it, really, just give up everything else. Just trust Him, love Him more. Not because I feel "helpless" and "hopeless" and have to come see I can't keep the "law", but because everything else is just spinning your wheels anyway. The ONE thing I want to do is behold Him more, until it becomes like breathing.

[BobRyan]

As much as I can't explain why Rich does what he does - one thing that his activity is helping is in the area of your statement about RBF in 1888. Rich imagines that Christ preaches none-of-it and that Paul is the guy that speaks to that point.

Some people find a way to imagine that Ellen White did not talk about it until 1888.

What I find facinating is the fact that they did not consider the full meaning of RBF to be preached until you had the "keep the commandments of God" balance from Rev 14 added in to the mix.

So we have saints that are saved by grace through faith - AND THE result is mature Christians that "Have the Law of God written on the heart" (a promise that is central to the New Covenant of Heb 8) instead of having the Law of God "tossed out the window"! So in 1Cor 7:19 Paul can say "but what matters is keeping the commandments of God" when speaking to the saints who are saved by grace through faith.

in Christ,

Bob

[ClubV12]

I think it will happen Bob, seeking that closer relationship with Jesus, these things will indeed be written on the heart. The end result is inevitable, love for God and His law will just naturally follow.

The other day I was in Walmart and the thought stuck me, so many of these folks don't have a clue about the Lord. I just wanted to stand in the middle of the store and proclaim His love, still do, but am considering how to do that with a little finese and without getting arrested. :)

[Ambassador]

You know Clubv12 that thought has struck me quite a few times. Usually when I am surrounded by people. I look at everyone and all I can see is people who don't know Jesus. I know it is Christ in me, I'm just seeing and understanding what he sees all the time. To me when that happened it was like a crushing weight of understanding, that most of these people are currently lost in one way or another. I just wanted to start yelling out the gospel right then and there.

However, I like you was constrained, and justified keeping my mouth shut by the amount of embarrassment it would likely cause. Looking back at those types of experiences it shows me just how far I am from the ideal that God has for me.

On the topic of 1888

In my mind I summarize the idea like this.

#1. God's grace is without precedent. Nothing we can do, whether willful or not can wrest that from us. Of course the idea that God will forgive willful and unforgiven sin is not true. What I am speaking of is for those who accept, agree, and claim his power in there lives. Whether they have fallen or not. God will never "hate" us for sinning. Complete pardon from past, present, and future sins were paid in Christ. That pardon is available to anyone who confesses in faith that Christ is Lord! As I summarize one author "God's grace gives you the ability to make mistakes, and to grow from them".

#2. When we confess Christ, we can claim by faith his atoning sacrifice, and thereby not only his atonement but his ability to cleanse and sanctify. The Spirit of God brings the Mind of Christ into us when we confess Christ. At this point all that is necessary is to surrender our will to his and Christ gradually changes our hearts. Therefore the more we look at Christ, appreciate his character, and recognize what it cost for our redemption, the more willfully we will obey in Christ. Because we know this, that without him, we can do nothing.

[Pastor_Chick]

Ambassador,

I'll keep my peace for the moment on your take regarding RBF/1888, but I really like your quote from Martin Luther. That brother could relate to why I cannot give up the name of my faith. Thank you.

[skyblue888]

I didn't see any statement from Luther, at least, ambassador did not give any reference to him by name.

ClubV12 has the right idea. If we daily come to God just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the all-sufficient merits of a crucified and risen Saviour, the Father accepts us and He clothes us with the robe of Christ's righteousness which is just another way of saying that we have the mind of Christ and the mind of Christ is always subject to the law of God. In other words, if we have the mind of Christ, the law will take care of itself.

"Oh be so full of the message that it is like fire shut up in your bones, that you cannot hold your peace. It is true, men will say, 'You are too excited; you are making too much of this matter, and you do not think enough of the law; now, you are to think more of the law; don't be all the time reaching for this righteousness of Christ, but build up the law.' Let the law take care of itself. We have been at work on the law until we get as dry as the hills of Gilboa, without dew or rain. Let us trust in the merits of Jesus Christ of Nazareth. May God help us that our eyes may be anointed with eyesalve that we may see." E.G. White, 1888 Materials, Vol.2, 557.

This is coming from the 1888 Materials!

Did you catch this? Let us trust in the merits of Jesus Christ of Nazareth and the law will take care of itself. Why, because as we rely solely upon the merits of Jesus Christ for our salvation, the Holy Spirit brings the righteousness of Christ into the life and His righteousness is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. His righteousness accomplishes everything. See T.M.92 and F.W.27,65,66.

It helps me better appreciate why she wrote that unless we make it our life business to look to Jesus and accept His merits which it is our privilege to claim, we cannot be saved. See T.M.93.

"We shall come in repentance and contrition, with a despairing sense of our own finite weakness, and learn that we must daily apply to the merits of the blood of Christ, that we may become vessels fit for the Master's use." F.W.86.

This, I believe, is the 1888 message in a nutshell.

As we are imbued with the Spirit of Christ for trusting wholly in His all-sufficient merits, we shall be organized as we shall be actuated by the Head, that His will may be done on earth as it is in Heaven and He will do in and through us, through the endowment of the Holy Spirit, the works of omnipotence, the works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. (Eph.2:10)

sky

[skyblue888]

Many ask, What do you mean by the "merits" of Christ? What are the "merits" of Christ? I have met many brothers and sisters who seemed to be shocked at the idea that Christ should have merits. Merits for what? Then I ask them, Was not His sacrifice infinite? and who can measure the infinity of that sacrifice? Was not the blood He shed of value beyond estimate? They usually reply "yes" but fail to see that that sacrifice is full of merits, full of divine merits which the Lord pleads before the Father in behalf of all men but especially those who believe, those who believe that "the merits of His sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf"* in order to receive the gift that cannot be excelled, the gift of the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Godhead, Christ's true Representative, bringing all other blessings in its train!

sky

*S.C.36.

[Ambassador]

Quote:

I didn't see any statement from Luther, at least, ambassador did not give any reference to him by name.

Pastor Chick is talking about my signature.

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[skyblue888]

Sorry Ambassador but I dont see any signature in the post that P Chick referred to.

Just want to add this statement for those who might not see the connection between trusting in the merits of Christ and receiving His righteousness.

Mrs. White speaks of "The faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousness into the life. Clothed with the righteousness of Christ and not your own righteousness, you will not depend upon what you can do or what you will do," for "Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." Faith & Works, p.65,66,27.

This is, again, the 1888 message in a nutshell.

Here is another one:

"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness, and this the sinner owes to the law; but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way he can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ." F.W.101.

Is not the 1888 message just as simple as ABC?

The only way the sinner can attain to righteousness, obedience to the law, is through faith: by faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ. This is our life business.

Praise God for the simplicity of the 1888 message. Had this message been received, believed, and acted upon, the earth would have been lightened with the glory of God. See 1 S.M.234,235.

sky

[ClubV12]

Last night, right at sundown, I was sitting in a chair in my backyard and considering the lovely trees, the slight breeze fluttering the leaves, and a greater understanding of rightousness by faith was granted to me. I couldn't help but burst forth in praise to God. This is such a wonderful message.

Everything I'v learned to date, didn't matter. Was I saved? I didn't care, even THAT question paled as I contemplated the wonderful forgiveness and love of our Saviour. Nothing else on the earth could touch me in that moment of sublime acceptance of His grace. Do with me what thou will, it is all in God's hands. I accept Christs merits to be presented to the Father. My destiny is in His hands.

My peace, this morning, exceeds anything I've ever known in my life.

[BobRyan]

"Create in me a clean heart o God and renew a right spirit within me. Restore unto me the joy of Thy salvation... THEN will I teach transgressors Thy ways and sinners will be converted unto Thee" Ps 51

[ClubV12]

Wow, that fits SO beautifully with the Rightousness by faith message.

THEN,,, will I teach.

That's a memory verse right there!

[Ambassador]

Quote:

My peace, this morning, exceeds anything I've ever known in my life.

Now THAT is something I can praise God for!!

Those who understand THIS message are the ones who are able to really grow in Christ.

[cheddar]

Last night, right at sundown, I was sitting in a chair in my backyard and considering the lovely trees, the slight breeze fluttering the leaves, and a greater understanding of rightousness by faith was granted to me. I couldn't help but burst forth in praise to God. This is such a wonderful message.

Everything I'v learned to date, didn't matter. Was I saved? I didn't care, even THAT question paled as I contemplated the wonderful forgiveness and love of our Saviour. Nothing else on the earth could touch me in that moment of sublime acceptance of His grace. Do with me what thou will, it is all in God's hands. I accept Christs merits to be presented to the Father. My destiny is in His hands.

My peace, this morning, exceeds anything I've ever known in my life.

This has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. LOL So good happy feelings mean we understand righteousness by faith! I don’t think so. I actually believe in the 1888 message and I get into one argument after another with adventist yahoos who worship Ellen White and the 10 commandments. The last time I checked the SDA church rejected that message a hundred years ago and they still reject it today. Satan will gladly give you good happy feelings to go on rejecting it.

[skyblue888]

Cheddar, CluvV12 wrote: "I accept Christs merits to be presented to the Father. My destiny is in His hands."

Far from being the dumbest thing, it is the wisest thing a man can do in this world.

I believe ClubV12 understands that this is a daily matter.

"Unless he makes it his life business to behold the uplited Saviour and to accept His merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." T.M.93.

"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness. This the sinner owes to the law, but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way he can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ." F.W.101.

This is the 1888 message in a nutshell.

As we daily come to God just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour, His righteousness is brought into the life and it is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. (T.M.92) Just another way of saying what the Scriptures are teaching, that Christ is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption. 1 Cor.1:30.

Faith in His blood (Rom.3:25) means to present our case before God pleading the merits of the blood shed for us upon Calvary's cross. This is our only plea.

Lord, I have no merit or goodness within whereby I may claim salvation but I present before You the all-sufficient merits of the all-atoning blood of the spotless Lamb of God.

This prayer is heard in the courts above and thus we believe from the heart unto righteousness. Rom.10:10.

sky

[cheddar]

I wasn't basing my opinion on just that post but on his other posts as well. He doesn't believe the message, but lets find out for sure.

ClubV12 do you believe in the 1888 message and share it wherever you go, especially with your fellow adventists? A yes or no answer will suffice.

[Jody]

HalleluYah!!!

[ClubV12]

I've been TRYING to understand the 1888 message for some time, it certainly is elusive. Like looking for the end of the rainbow. Today, Sunday, I understand it better than I did Friday night. At least in my case, it either takes awhile to sink in or as you contemplate how wonderful it is, it just keeps getting better!

"good happy feelings"

No, there is a substantial difference between "feeling happy" and finding a peace that passes understanding. If you have never experienced this peace, you might mistake it for "good happy feelings".

I was blessed to speak of it, Righteousness by faith, with several folks at the common meal after church on Sabbath. Some get it, some just kind of get a quizical look on their face. It is a difficult subject to explain, that balance between justification and sanctification, but I hope to be able to do so in a simple way soon. It is a powerful message and I hope to make it my lifes work by beholding Jesus.

It's rather ironic, just a few days ago I was ALL about "keeping the law, no excuses". Works that do not flow from a heart of love are rubbish.

[cheddar]

That's a good answer.

[skyblue888]

Club, after reading the statements from Mrs. White regarding the 1888 message you still believe the message is elusive?

When you accept the precious light of truth there is no need to split the theological hair between justification and sanctification.

A few posts ago, you said that you presented the merits of Christ to the Father and that you rested believing that everything would be taken care of. I could say Amen to that.

But now you are saying that the message is elusive!

Is there anything elusive in those words:

"There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ. The grace of the Holy Spirit has been offered to you again and again." T.M.97.

In other words the grace of God is offered to us through faith in the merits of Christ, appropriating them by faith.

Mrs. White was discussing the 1888 message when she wrote these words.

She was also discussing the 1888 message when she wrote the following words:

"Unless he makes it his lifebusiness to behold the uplifted Saviour and to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." T.M.93.

In the wilderness "The lifting up of the brazen serpent was to teach Israel an important lesson."

And you know what that lesson was?

"They knew that there was no virtue in the serpent itself, but it was a symbol of Christ; and the necessity of faith in His merits ( the merits of a Saviour to come) was presented to their minds." P.P.430.

This is what it means to look and live and that is the 1888 message in clear, distinct lines.

Nothing elusive about it.

This look of faith in the merits of Christ takes care of justification and sanctification for Christ is then made unto us wisdom and righteousness and redemption and sanctification. 1 Cor.1:30. If we continue in the faith, of course.

sky

[ClubV12]

For me, it is not elusive NOW! I continue to grow in understanding of it daily, it has many facets, it is a thing of beauty.

But I would have to say, it is in fact very elusive, it was for me. I read the texts, read some books, looked up plenty of references, it seemed so close, so simple, yet, I couldn't quite grasp it. It's like having something on the tip of your tongue, or finding the actual "end of the rainbow". I actually DID find the end of the rainbow, ONCE, in Hawaii, where rainbows are very very common. The "end" was in my backyard, right there, I could actually see it! That was an interesting moment, by the way.

The past couple of WEEKS I've been really focused on finding the meaning of Righteouness by faith, praying God would help me understand, it was SO close. And yet, so far away. In my case I had to "give up". Give up all my preconceived ideas of what being a christian was all about. Give up the "law". Give up all the old ideas I had. I wasn't even studying when it came to me, basically, I had given up. Yet, it was in the back of mind constantly. And then, it happened, watching the trees, Sabbath evening, enjoying nature and contemplating the love of God. That still small voice, not from intense bible study, more books, more EGW writings, just the trees and the breeze.

My latest realization is that Righteouness by faith is NOT a "one time event". Not even "daily", but moment by moment as I rejoice in a new understanding of the "law". The joy in doing God's will, desiring to be just like Him. It has been very profound. It's NOT some "mystical thing" some new spirituallity, I've come to see it as "christainity 101", and am amazed I did not understood it until recently. It's as simple as ABC! :)

[cheddar]

The biggest hurdle to understanding righteousness by faith is how we see the Law. The law of God has only one purpose and that’s to show us what sin is. The minute we grit our teeth together and say ‘I’m going to keep that law whether I like it or not’, we’ve already failed. The Jews tried to get righteousness out of the law for thousands of years and not a single one succeeded. The ones who did succeed, however, were the ones who quit that method and learned to walk by faith.

Another big obstacle is the verse in Rev. 14 – ‘here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.’ The minute the talk of commandment keeping comes up it always directed back to the old covenant. We’re not under the old covenant anymore; we should be under the new covenant. The new covenant is filled with commandments too and these supersede any found in the old. In Mark, Jesus says we need to ‘believe the gospel’. John had a lot to say about commandment keeping, but he always linked his commandments with faith and love. I don’t think there’s any doubt where Paul stood on this issue – he preached about faith until he was blue in the face.

So in summary a new covenant commandment keeping Christian is someone who:

1) believes in the gospel (for adventists that would be the 1888 message)

2) exercises a living faith in Jesus Christ (this is where the power comes from)

3) and has God’s agape love written in his heart (when this happens we will keep the law and the sabbath but it will be Jesus doing it thru us)

An old covenant commandment keeper is someone who still trusts in the law for righteousness. These people are usually ‘babes in Christ’ and God bears long with them, but eventually they need to grow up and learn to walk by faith.

[wayfinder]

The ONLY place where you will find this teaching(righteousness by faith through grace)is Paul/Saul et.al.

There is only one covenant(the ten commands)and the only thing "new" about it is where it was to be written. The first time God wrote with His own finger on two tablets of stone. God said, through His prophet Jeremiah, that when He restored both Israel(Northern kingdom)and Judah(southern kingdom)back to the promised land, that He would write the words of the covenant in their innermost parts and upon their hearts(Jeremiah 31). What God ment by this, was that they would choose to keep the covenant and by keeping it, it would be in their heart and not inside the ark of the covenant in the "heart" of temple.

Deuteronomy 30:10 if you obey the LORD your God to keep His commandments and His statutes which are written in this book of the law, if you turn to the LORD your God with all your heart and soul.

11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach

Psalm 1:1 How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, Nor stand in the path of sinners, Nor sit in the seat of scoffers !

2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night.

3 He will be like a tree firmly planted by streams of water, Which yields its fruit in its season And its leaf does not wither ; And in whatever he does, he prospers.

4 The wicked are not so, But they are like chaff which the wind drives away.

5 Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment, Nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.

6 For the LORD knows the way of the righteous, But the way of the wicked will perish.

Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets ; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

19 "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven ; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 "For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.

[ClubV12]

"The ONLY place where you will find this teaching(righteousness by faith through grace)is Paul..."

Well, thats good enough for me! :)

[cheddar]

That's only true if you throw out the entire new testament and only an imbecile would do that.