Are Roman Catholics Correct about SDA: Part 1

[miz3]

Quote:

Adventist History

The Seventh-Day Adventist church traces its roots to American preacher William Miller (1782–1849), a Baptist who predicted the Second Coming would occur between March 21, 1843, and March 21, 1844. Because he and his followers proclaimed Christ’s imminent advent, they were known as "Adventists."

When Christ failed to appear, Miller reluctantly endorsed the position of a group of his followers known as the "seventh-month movement," who claimed Christ would return on October 22, 1844 (in the seventh month of the Jewish calendar).

When this didn’t happen either, Miller forswore predicting the date of the Second Coming, and his followers broke up into a number of competing factions. Miller would have nothing to do with the new theories his followers produced, including ones which attempted to save part of his 1844 doctrine. He rejected this and other teachings being generated by his former followers, including those of Ellen Gould White.

Miller had claimed, based on his interpretation of Daniel and Revelation, that Christ would return in 1843–44 to cleanse "the sanctuary" (Dan. 8:11–14, 9:26), which he interpreted as the earth. After the disappointments of 1844, several of his followers proposed an alternative theory. While walking in a cornfield on the morning of October 23, 1844, the day after Christ failed to return, Hiram Edson felt he received a spiritual revelation that indicated that Miller had misidentified the sanctuary. It was not the earth, but the Holy of Holies in God’s heavenly temple. Instead of coming out of the heavenly temple to cleanse the sanctuary of the earth, in 1844 Christ, for the first time, went into the heavenly Holy of Holies to cleanse it instead.

Another group of Millerites was influenced by Joseph Bates, a retired sea captain, who in 1846 and 1849 issued pamphlets insisting that Christians observe the Jewish Sabbath—Saturday—instead of worshipping on Sunday. This helped feed the intense anti-Catholicism of Seventh-Day Adventism, since they blamed the Catholic Church for changing the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

These two streams of thought—Christ entering the heavenly sanctuary and the need to keep the Jewish Sabbath—were combined by White, who claimed to have received many visions confirming these doctrines. Together with Edson and Bates, she formed the Seventh-Day Adventist denomination, which officially received its name in 1860.

Today the denomination reports that it has 780,000 members in the United States and 7.8 million members elsewhere, many in Catholic countries.

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The question is are they, Roman Catholics correct?

Part 2 of this question to come soon!

[Overaged]

Are they correct about what? Several possible themes are mentioned here.

[ClubV12]

There pretty much correct, for the most part. I don't have a big problem with it. I posted some specific thoughts on the issue in the "Part 2" thread.

[Overaged]

There pretty much correct, for the most part. I don't have a big problem with it. I posted some specific thoughts on the issue in the "Part 2" thread.

[Gerr]

Some minor points of disagreement with the Catholic statement about SDA history.

1. RE: Jesus went into the holy of holies in 1844 for the first time, I believe that when He ascended into heaven after His resurrection, He also dedicated the heavenly sanctuary. He had to have gone into the holy of holies to dedicate it.

2. If my memory serves me correctly, the heavenly-sanctuary-believing Millerites and the Sabbath-keeping Millerites were in the same group.

3. I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that the article seems to intimate that the blame for the change of the Sabbath to Sunday is/was undeserved. The Catholic Church openly admits that by virtue of the power of the church, they made the change.

4. There is nothing "Jewish" about the Sabbath. God instituted it loooong before there was ever a Jew.

5. The stats cited is way out of date. SDAs world-wide now number almost 20 million.

[BobRyan]

Gerry - I believe you are correct.

The article also misses the point that in the mid 1800's all of America was pretty much opposed to what the RCC had done in the dark ages.

in Christ,

Bob

[ClubV12]

"...the intense anti-Catholicism of Seventh-Day Adventism, since they blamed the Catholic Church for changing the day of worship..."

Over stated using the phrase "intense anti-catholic", but still reasonably accurate. There is a difference between accurate and true.

There was a movie, "Absence of Malice", where it was "reported" in the news that Sally Fields character had a "relationship" with Paul Newmans character. That was "accurate", but it wasn't true.

[skyblue888]

If the Word of God labels the papacy as "the man of sin" for having thought of changing the law of God, what do SDA have to do with that? If the Word of God labels the papacy "the mystery of iniquity," is God intensely anti-catholic?

sky

[miz3]

If SDA believe the Bible labels the Roman Catholic Church as Babylon, the Great Whore, etc., etc. then they should not be ashamed of it but should trumpet it everywhere, and as often as they have chance to do so!

Now if SDA are ashamed of their stance in regard to the Roman Catholic Church they have two choices:

1. Shut up and not obey what they believe God wants them to do.

2. Or, massage it and soften it so as not to offend the Roman Church and others.

It appears that Roman Catholics think we believe that about them (Babylon, the Great Whore, etc., etc.) Are the Roman Catholics correct or are they wrong in this regard?

[miz3]

Did or did not the Roman Catholic Church change the Sabbath Day from Saturday to Sunday?

Do Roman Catholics admit they have done this?

[phkrause]

Did or did not the Roman Catholic Church change the Sabbath Day from Saturday to Sunday?

Do Roman Catholics admit they have done this?

Yes and Yes

[miz3]

If SDA believe the Bible labels the Roman Catholic Church as Babylon, the Great Whore, etc., etc. then they should not be ashamed of it but should trumpet it everywhere, and as often as they have chance to do so!

Now if SDA are ashamed of their stance in regard to the Roman Catholic Church they have two choices:

1. Shut up and not obey what they believe God wants them to do.

2. Or, massage it and soften it so as not to offend the Roman Church and others.

It appears that Roman Catholics think we believe that about them (Babylon, the Great Whore, etc., etc.) Are the Roman Catholics correct or are they wrong in this regard?

What about this question that was posted in the last paragraph of this quote?

[BobRyan]

Why are there 4 starter threads for this same subject?

[miz3]

Because each one deals with a different angle and the single piece would be too long for one only thread. (my judgment).

[BobRyan]

Originally Posted By: miz3

It appears that Roman Catholics think we believe that about them (Babylon, the Great Whore, etc., etc.) Are the Roman Catholics correct or are they wrong in this regard?

What about this question that was posted in the last paragraph of this quote?

[ClubV12]

4 threads is to much for me. I commented on, I think thread 2, I'm out! :)

[Overaged]

Nothing wrong with yet another thread on this subject; if there are some people interested again. It can be a lot of work searching and finding such things in the hundreds of topics on the forum. We just have to choose which ones we are interested in/have time for.

Roman Catholics are actually not in agreement with us on very much at all, as with other Protestant groups. I know how it is good to find points of agreement and all; but they often (not always) mean very different things by the same word, than what we do. The general body of Roman Catholic believers do not seem to realize this; but the leadership knows it very well.

Now; it's not wrong to see things differently; but unfortunately, Adventists have historically done a poor job of showing Roman Catholics that we don't hate them; and that our doctrines, do not direct hatred towards their church.

They love to point their finger at us and say we hate them; yet, in the same breath, while they "accept our baptism" unity with them is absolutely impossible unless one thing, and one thing only occurrs. Protestants have to submit to Rome, to Roman Catholic doctrine, to the Papacy, the Pope being the head, or we are not "in full communion" with them. The current Pope has publicly stated we are not real churches, and the only thing that would, in Papacy's eyes, make it "real" is by swimming the Tiber, as they like to call it in their "testimonies." There is no compromise available from Rome, either now, or in the future. Their plans include the use of political and physical means to force us to "submit" so in my opinion, the axe they hold over the non-Catholic world's head is a lot sharper than our's will ever be. I don't know about you, but I don't like it when someone is driving the kife into my back, and all the while looking me in the eye with a sweet smile and saying how they "accept" me. I am sorry; I don't believe them. They say too many other things to counteract that "acceptance" of my baptism.

This gets really interesting when you start asking "Catholics" why they don't like being called "Roman Catholics" anymore, but I will leave that one alone for now. Suffice it to say that when it comes to trust, their leadership has a long ways to go too.

One has to be practical too. If you are an Adventist, and you don't have atleast one "Catholic" friend, there is something wrong. Many of them are great people, lovely Christians. Don't throw them all out with the bathwater, just because the ones at the top are questionable.