fccool Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 You either believe what the Bible says, or you don't believe what the Bible says. Simple as that. Does the Bible say that evil thought = evil deed? That's what seems to be emphasized here quite a bit... How about good thought=good deed? Does it work that way or not?
ClubV12 Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 That is correct fccool. The whole reason God wants our thoughts, our heart, our mind is so we can be focused on Him, who is the very essense of love. When we have good thoughts we are praising Him, which brings joy to the angels and spreads peace and harmony to those around us. It is a beautiful thing, for us, for the world. Evil thoughts cause pain to the angels and the people around us. I like to keep my home and my life in such a way that I invite their presence, a place where they love to dwell, a place where Jesus is honored above all things. I want to keep my mind staid upon Him. It could be said that ANYTHING that separates us from Him is the very essence of sin. Not a guilt trip, a reality trip.
Overaged Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Thats an odd thing to say about the angels. I have often wondered where people get the idea that angels won't have anything to do with us if we are not "good." "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
ClubV12 Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Don't take it to far out Overaged! If they totally withdrew the entire planet would be a disaster right now. But you CAN order your life in such a way that you invite a closer connection, with Christ, and the angels in response to that will draw closer as well. I have some friends like that, some I like to spend time with, get closer, I want to know them better. Some, I tolerate and keep at a distance, I don't want to get to close. I'm not interested in going to the bar with them for instance. Again, much of this is just common sense. Like separation from God, He isn't going anywhere! But I can tell when I'm living my life if that connection to Christ is not as strong as I would like it. Reject His presence long enough, consistently enough, and it is possible to find yourself wholly under the influence of evil angels.
Overaged Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Don't take it to far out Overaged! I have some friends like that, some I like to spend time with, get closer, I want to know them better. Some, I tolerate and keep at a distance, I don't want to get to close. I cannot picture the angels acting like this, or thinking like this; nor can I think of a Bible text that would suggest this KIND of thing with angels. "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
ClubV12 Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 OK. Jesus loved to go to Mary's house, above all other homes. The angels can and do have similiar preferences. Ellen White has much to say on this topic and it is clear from her writings, we should specifically ASK for their presence and make our home in such a way that they feel welcome. A home that they, like Jesus did with Mary, love to visit, not just a place where they come to "work" on our behalf.
Overaged Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 So you think that angels "tolerate" some of us and "keep us at a distance?" And all you can do is say: "It is clear from her writings." Fine and dandy; but where is that in the Bible? "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
CoAspen Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 I think part of our 'anti-reality culture' in Adventism, is that we quite often major in minors while proclaiming that Christ is our 'mentor'. Looking at the life of Christ and His comments in the NT, his major was presenting a true picture of God and obtaining salvation for all that would accept. The culture He came into was majoring in the 'minors' just exactly as we continue to argue about on the many threads of the forums. Is that the reality of our belief system or ant-reality??
Overaged Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 The culture He came into was majoring in the 'minors' just exactly as we continue to argue about on the many threads of the forums.Most of the time it is called "argument" when it is not. "Comparing & Contrasting" are quite different than "arguing." Just because questions are asked; it does not follow that the person is "arguing." The Bible does reveal Jesus as asking a lot of questions, and being labelled as a trouble maker for it. "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
ClubV12 Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 “Doth Job fear God for nought? Hast not Thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side?” Job 1: 9, 10. The house of Herod did not enjoy the same angelic protection as Job. God provides for our protection through the service of His angels. We have ample biblical examples of His protection provided or removed.
Overaged Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 “Doth Job fear God for nought? Hast not Thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side?” Job 1: 9, 10. The house of Herod did not enjoy the same angelic protection as Job. God provides for our protection through the service of His angels. We have ample biblical examples of His protection provided or removed. The complete text reads as follows: and not that this is a conversation between God and Satan 9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? 10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. What I don't understand is how you get angels out of these texts; and where these texts tell us that angels "tolerate us" and don't want to be near us unless we are real good little boys and girls? "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
Moderators Bravus Posted May 31, 2011 Author Moderators Posted May 31, 2011 Doctrinal positions based on the words of Satan are an interesting novelty! Truth is important
Moderators Gerr Posted May 31, 2011 Moderators Posted May 31, 2011 Originally Posted By: Richard Holbrook You either believe what the Bible says, or you don't believe what the Bible says. Simple as that. Does the Bible say that evil thought = evil deed? That's what seems to be emphasized here quite a bit... How about good thought=good deed? Does it work that way or not? From what Jesus said, that seems to be the case, i.e. evil thought = evil deed. But I don't think He's talking about an evil thought that fleetingly crosses our minds. I think He is referring to something that we hatch in our minds that if given the opportunity would want to carry it out. How about the "good thought = good deed?" I believe the same principle applies. When we believe God and take Him at His word and truly repent and promise God good behavior and in our hearts and minds really mean it, He takes us at our word and treats us as though we have never sinned. He does that BEFORE we have done ANY good deed. That is the Good News as I understand it.
fccool Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Just a little carry over from other post: Do you think that it's a coincidence that every religion which claims God has a chosen people was founded by those who claimed they were the chosen people.
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted May 31, 2011 Administrators Posted May 31, 2011 That would be an interesting twist, the true seekers church - Founded by people that don't feel special or unique and that know they are not the ones, but searching for God knows what*. Recruiting might be a problem. "Come join us, we don't know who we are or what we are doing." I think that would make them at least the most honest church... Tom * Searching for God Knows What, by Donald Miller "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
ClubV12 Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 God did not personally provide or withdraw His protection from Job. He gives His angels charge over us, they do His bidding. When the good angels are withdrawn that vacuum is filled by the bad angels. This is the great controversy 101. It's fundamental to christianity. All those "good little boys and girls" in Sodom? They suffered the same fate as their parents, sad to say, but that is the end result of denying the power of God. He, "tolerates" us only up to a certain point, He loves us all and takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. But this mystery of sin has to be addressed. This is a gradual process, fellowship and protection is withdrawn over time, not all at once. WE have a roll to play by seeking or rejecting Him. When our cup of iniquity is full, His angels totally withdraw their protection. As the angels of the winds of strife are doing now, slowly withdrawing there protection. This process begins in the HOME, the neighborhood, the town you live in. There are many many examples of this principle in the bible. If He cannot speak to us in blessings received He will speak to us in blessings removed. That is accomplished through the workings of His angels on our behalf.
Overaged Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 To The God Who Tolerates Us! "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
ClubV12 Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Tolerates is just another word for mercy. But mercy and toleration are not extended forever, make no mistake, the wages of sin is death. The end of this mystery of sin is coming, it will not be tolerated forever.
fccool Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 ClubV12, For the wages of sin is death is not equal that if you sin ... God will kill you. It means that there are consequences of our terrible choices. If Bible indeed is correct, then the fact that people live and die and punishment enough for sin. What would be justice... to resurrect them and kill them again ... and again... and again...? On top of it, don't throw "sin" in the same box. Does a child deserve death for stealing a cookie?
Overaged Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 ClubV12, Does a child deserve death for stealing a cookie? How bout an adult? "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
ClubV12 Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Does anyone deserve death for stealing a cookie? The answer is the same for any sin, in the end, big or little, there is only one solution. If there is no repentance, acknowledgement of sin, forgiveness accepted through His sacrafice, there remains only one solution for sin, merciful death. Not the earthly death, but the SECOND and FINAL death following judgment, that both the sinner (the cookie stealer) and all intelligent beings have an opportunity to see why the sentence is just and is the only viable solution. It is not about the "cookie", it is about the rejection of God's love, the unhappiness that would result for all eternity if even ONE who does not love God were allowed eternal life. Only those who will appreciate the love of God and accept it will be allowed eternal life. It's NOT His choice, it's YOURS. In some extreme cases not all persons are resurrected to judgment and thus face the second death. For some, they will be left alone, they died once, on this earth. It will be as if they had never been. God is not the heartless being some people make Him out to be. There is justice, but there is also mercy, the "sentence" will be carried out accordingly.
fccool Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Originally Posted By: fccool ClubV12, Does a child deserve death for stealing a cookie? How bout an adult? Ok, Let's play your card. Does an adult deserve death for stealing a cookie?
ClubV12 Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Did you miss my response above your post? ALL "who steal a cookie" and fail to repent and accept His sacrafice pay the same, the one and only solution to sin, eternal death. In the judgment there is not "little or big" sin, your either guilty as charged or accept Jesus to cover your guilt. There is no half way.
Overaged Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 God Will Kill You If You Touch That Cookie! "People [rarely] see...the bright light which is in the clouds..." (Job 37:21)"I cannot know why suddenly the stormshould rage so fiercely round me in it's wrathBut this I know: God watches all my pathAnd I can trust""God helps us to draw strength from the storm" - OveragedFaith makes things possible; it does not make them easy, Steps To Christ
ClubV12 Posted May 31, 2011 Posted May 31, 2011 Overaged, that is "accurate", it's not "true", but it is accurate. The question is: Is their absence of malice in your above statement, or in Gods action? THAT goes to the very heart of the followup conundrum, is it "accurate or true"? :)
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