"The 144,000"

[Guest godsloveandlaw]

Recently was guided by our Lord for some profound truths regarding this subject, please review my post at www.godsloveandlaw.wordpress.com

[cheddar]

I read thru this and was not really blessed by it. People who think that they always need to keep their word or their ‘promises’ are some of the most legalistic. I’m not saying that we should purposely break our word, but sometimes it happens and it’s not a sin. It is a sin to not believe in God’s promises. Jesus gave us a commandment which says to ‘believe the gospel’. That commandment gets broken every day without a second thought.

The 144,000 is a very good topic though. I personally believe that last day Christians make up this group. Many do not share this view because Christians have no blood relationship to the twelve tribes of Israel. This is where all the views come from that say the 144,000 are literal Jews. Christians belong to the twelve tribes of Israel based on character type not blood type. Each of the men who started the twelve tribes had a unique character and those types are still present in God’s people today. Judah is often associated with the lion so I would say that one of his dominant traits is courage or strength.

Paul often referred to the early Christens as Jews and the true descendants of Abraham. (Rom. 2, Gal. 3) If we look at the New Jerusalem, each of the twelve gates has a name of one of the twelve tribes of Israel. This means that anyone entering the city will have to go thru one of these gates, so not only do the 144,000 belong to the twelve tribes but all the saved throughout time will belong as well.

[Guest godsloveandlaw]

Sorry to hear Cheddar, that you were not blessed by the 144,00 post.Many were, but some, as you weren't. Maybe this Daniel 2 presentation will be a blessing. Quite true, yet mostly dis-believed by SDA. I for one cannot find error in it, if you do point it out. I persoanlly know the speaker- Glenroy Matthews, thanks Rob http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUnCmLdm-Pw

[skyblue888]

I read thru this and was not really blessed by it. People who think that they always need to keep their word or their ‘promises’ are some of the most legalistic. I’m not saying that we should purposely break our word, but sometimes it happens and it’s not a sin. It is a sin to not believe in God’s promises. Jesus gave us a commandment which says to ‘believe the gospel’. That commandment gets broken every day without a second thought.

The 144,000 is a very good topic though. I personally believe that last day Christians make up this group. Many do not share this view because Christians have no blood relationship to the twelve tribes of Israel. This is where all the views come from that say the 144,000 are literal Jews. Christians belong to the twelve tribes of Israel based on character type not blood type. Each of the men who started the twelve tribes had a unique character and those types are still present in God’s people today. Judah is often associated with the lion so I would say that one of his dominant traits is courage or strength.

Paul often referred to the early Christens as Jews and the true descendants of Abraham. (Rom. 2, Gal. 3) If we look at the New Jerusalem, each of the twelve gates has a name of one of the twelve tribes of Israel. This means that anyone entering the city will have to go thru one of these gates, so not only do the 144,000 belong to the twelve tribes but all the saved throughout time will belong as well.

Right on!

sky

[Lysimachus]

I will explain more later godsloveandlaw, but I found almost no light in that video either. There are always these new speakers now and then always trying to promote something "new" and "sensational". The foundations as far as doctrines have already been laid down in Adventism. The doctrinal pillars have been fine-tuned, and are established.

Now what is needed is a spirit of revival and reformation--a faith that works by love and purifies the soul. Now is time to leave behind the doctrines of Christ and GO UNTO perfection, as Paul said. Now is time to press together, and unify with the kind of love that existed between the Father and Son. Not until God's people are PERFECTLY united can He then come back to claim them as His own. We have hundreds and hundreds of statements from Ellen White where she talks about the subject of "pressing together". Press together, press together, press together, PRESS TOGETHER!! Yes, one time she mentions it up to 5 times in the same paragraph. Now the focus is on cleaning up our characters, striving for primitive Godliness, and learning to GIVE and RECEIVE the straight testimony, the sharp testimony, the cutting testimony, the living testimony, the pointed testimony--etc. etc. (all expressions used by Sister White).

The Devil wants us to get hung up, and divided, on doctrinal issues--instead of realizing that we should be FAR beyond doctrine by now.

[John317]

That video teaches that the rock which comes out of the mountain and strikes the feet of the image of Daniel 2 are 144,000 SDAs. I believe that is false. The rock is Christ.

If you look at what the prophecy says the rock will do, you will see that humans aren't going to smash all the nations. The context shows that the rock is the judgment of God. The 144,000 don't bring judgment against the nations. They preach salvation and warning of judgment, but they themselves don't bring the judgment, nor do they smash the nations. Jesus is often referred to as the Rock. The Bible likens God Himself to a mountain. Jesus not only came from heaven but He came out of Israel, who are also sometimes referred to as a mountain. Jesus was cut out of the mountain without hands. That is to say, Christ's second coming will not be man's doing but God's alone. This can't be said of the 144,000, who are human.

[teresaq]

Maybe you overlooked this, my brother, on the other thread you posted to.

If Shepherd's Rod feel a need to speak to an audience, please do it elsewhere. They are a group that takes and robs, using an infrastructure and not contributing to it.

Fell free to promote, but not with this audience, build you own.

If anyone needs to have their membership status changed, please let me know.

[John317]

Thanks for reposting that. I was just going to say something about that.

I may decide to delete this latest link to the same website.

[wayfinder]

Daniel 2:34 "You continued looking until a stone was cut out without hands, and it struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and crushed them. 44 "In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not be left for another people ; it will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, but it will itself endure forever. 45"Inasmuch as you saw that a stone was cut out of the mountain without hands and that it crushed the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold, the great God has made known to the king what will take place in the future ; so the dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy."

John317, The stone(not rock) was cut out without hands. This cutting out of the stone is done in the days of the kings of the feet (in this current time). The stone is the kingdom that is established by the God of heaven(the kingdom of the heavens). The stone(kingdom of God) defeats the kingdom of the world(ruled by the evil one) and it will last forever.

Revelation 12:17 So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

The offspring of this woman are the kingdom of God. The dragon is preparing to make war against them. It is the kingdom of God(the stone) that ultimately triumphs. The Son of God is the King of the kingdom of God.

Revelation 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying, "Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. 10 "You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth."

Christ has purchased, with His blood, men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and has made them to be a kingdom(stone) and priests(144,000). The priests are the "core/heart" of the kingdom of God and as such would be the "cut out without hands" part.

[Musicman1228]

Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea,   (3) saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.”   (4) And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel: Judah, Reuben, Gad, Asher, Naphtali, Manasseh, Simeon, Levi, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin. Rev.7:2-4.

This 'angel' that has the seal of the Living God and who has the power to stop the 4 angels who have already been given the power to release the 4 winds of the Great Tribulation is not an ordinary angel; it is none other than Jesus Christ. This seal is not given to anyone that has not become righteous, therefore the 144,000 have become righteous.

These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb,   (5) and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless. Rev. 14:4-5.

Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand. Rev. 12:10.

And these 144,000 are not from literal Israel because the trusteeship of the Covenant of the Kingdom was taken away from them in 33 AD, at the end of the 490 years of the prophecy in Dan. 9:24. Also notice that the list of the 'tribes' in Rev. 7 are not the same as those that came out of Egypt. In this group is Joseph and his two sons were not in the original order of tribes of Israel. Also, Levi is listed as one of the tribes in Rev., when Levi was never considered to be one of the 12 tribes of ancient Israel. Therefore, these 144,000 are not necessarily of the Hebrew race, but come from 'every nation, tongue and people'. They are also members of the current Kingdom of the Heavens, which is the representation of the 12 tribes.

The Kingdom of Heaven is described in Matt. 25:1-13, and are also defined by the messages to the 7 assemblies in Rev. 2 and 3. It is very possible that the 144,000 come out of the SDA's church, because the prophetic description fits perfectly as to who the SDA church is today.

[John317]

It is very possible that the 144,000 come out of the SDA's church, because the prophetic description fits perfectly as to who the SDA church is today.

I do agree with you that the 144,000 will be Seventh-day Adventists. They will be practicing and proclaiming the Three Angels' Messages, which of course includes the everlasting gospel and the message about the Sabbath truth, the Seal of God, and the mark of the beast.

[12tribes]

Also notice that the list of the 'tribes' in Rev. 7 are not the same as those that came out of Egypt. In this group is Joseph and his two sons were not in the original order of tribes of Israel. Also, Levi is listed as one of the tribes in Rev., when Levi was never considered to be one of the 12 tribes of ancient Israel. Therefore, these 144,000 are not necessarily of the Hebrew race, but come from 'every nation, tongue and people'. They are also members of the current Kingdom of the Heavens, which is the representation of the 12 tribes.

The tribes of Dan and Ephraim have been left out.

Genesis 49:16-17

(16) Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel.

(17) Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

Hosea 4:17

(17) Ephraim is joined to idols: let him alone.