Dreams and Visions

[Stan]

If someone has an inspired dream or vision, does that make them a prophet or spiritual leader?

[ClubV12]

Hiram Edson might be a worthy candidate for consideration in that regard. There are reports/anecdotes of the Lord using him to heal fellow believers through his prayer. I get the impression this was a one on one type of thing, like laying on of hands and such. And then we have the account of what some call a "vision", others tend to down play it as something "less than" a vision. It was not a dream, as he was walking in or near a corn field at the time. A "revelation" of some kind? I don't know what else to call it other than a vision from my brief study on that report.

He printed some kind of paper on that revelation and Ellen White contacted him concerning that. He accepted the Seventh-day Adventist message but there is little information on him after that.

Not a prophet I'd say, but his role as a "spiritual leader" may be applicable, within a smaller circle of influence than say Uriah Smith. Major and minor "spiritual leaders"? :)

[Sonny]

No!

[BobRyan]

If someone has an inspired dream or vision, does that make them a prophet or spiritual leader?

Ellen White claimed in the Testimonies that inspired dreams were just as much a manifestation of the gift of prophecy as visions. She then introduced 3 inspired dreams - 2 by Loughborough and one by Matteson including them in the text of the Testimonies to the Church.

But because they did not continue to receive inspired dreams and visions they are not considered to hold the office of a prophet.

in Christ,

Bob

[Tom Wetmore]

How many visions does it take to become a prophet? (Didn't realize it was an office....)

[ClubV12]

I think it as more of a "calling", as we have many many examples of folks in the bible who only prophesied once. The bible also mentions "men of God" who prophesied perhaps on many occasions, but they are not called prophets. What IS a "man of God" then? Ellen White didn't claim to be a prophet, primarily because so many others were claiming it at that time, but she did say she was MORE than a prophet! A "messenger".

Lot's of variables to this stuff... Paul had divine inspiration, without a doubt, things and the future were revealed to him. Whether by dream or vision I cannot say. I don't tend to think of Paul as a prophet though, I guess he could be. I think of him as an evangelist, a teacher, a father to the churches, a counselor, a witness. Above all, an author of the bible, but a "prophet"? Hmmm, well OK, if thats what some want to call him.

[skyblue888]

Club, in one of the four volumes of The 1888 Materials, Mrs. White stated that Uriah Smith, the then G.C. president G.I Buttler, and a prominent minister by the name of Morrison, were the counterparts of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram for their opposition to the 1888 message.

This is something you will need to read and study for yourself at some point.

sky :)

[ClubV12]

I know about the conflicts with Uriah Smith in that time frame, and before! I still consider him a great man and I admire his work (in a healthy way). In spite of the controversy surrounding him on multiple levels, he was never the less, a "spiritual leader". By saying that I DO NOT conclude "once a leader, always a leader"! Many "men of God" did a powerful work in their life and then erred in some way. Or worse, lost their way entirely. The great men, A.T. Jones and Waggoner come to mind in that regard. I find Waggoners case to be exceptionally sad.

[BobRyan]

How many visions does it take to become a prophet? (Didn't realize it was an office....)

Ellen White was a paid worker in that regard after the death of James White.

See the end of 1Cor 12 for more details.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

I know about the conflicts with Uriah Smith in that time frame, and before! I still consider him a great man and I admire his work (in a healthy way). In spite of the controversy surrounding him on multiple levels, he was never the less, a "spiritual leader". By saying that I DO NOT conclude "once a leader, always a leader"! Many "men of God" did a powerful work in their life and then erred in some way. Or worse, lost their way entirely. The great men, A.T. Jones and Waggoner come to mind in that regard. I find Waggoners case to be exceptionally sad.

That is true. Ellen White had high praise for Uriah Smith -- also had some disputes with him --- but ultimately approved of his work in general.

in Christ,

Bob

[cheddar]

I know about the conflicts with Uriah Smith in that time frame, and before! I still consider him a great man and I admire his work (in a healthy way). In spite of the controversy surrounding him on multiple levels, he was never the less, a "spiritual leader". By saying that I DO NOT conclude "once a leader, always a leader"! Many "men of God" did a powerful work in their life and then erred in some way. Or worse, lost their way entirely. The great men, A.T. Jones and Waggoner come to mind in that regard. I find Waggoners case to be exceptionally sad.

Because he got divorced and remarried. OMG - off with his head!

[ClubV12]

He didn't just divorce and remarry cheddar, he was committing adultery and the prophet warned him about it. He acknowledged his sin, seemed to be sincerely sorry, but he didn't stop. Eventually he did divorce and remarry. Whats so sad about it is he had clear light on his position, and made a choice to continue anyway.

[skyblue888]

She also said that even after he finally admitted that he was wrong to oppose the 1888 message that it was only an intellectual admission. After 1888 he showed signs of not being truly repentant of his resistance to the 1888 message. This is all to be found in The 1888 Materials.

sky