Finding a new name for the Creation Seventh-day Adventist Church

[teresaq]

They are not adventist, are not adventist members. Like Branch Davidians they leech off the members with out making any contribution.

Branch Davidians cut-and-paste Ellen White and the bible to come up with an entirely different interpretation of prophecy than the official church has. They are also in the church advocating adherents to not leave the official church.

What differences in belief/doctrine do CSDAs have from the official church that we could say they are not basically SDA?

[Nic Samojluk]

Naraiel

Would be it so difficult to get their own name?

I concur with you on this! We have the example of Isaac in the Bible. On two occasions the Phillistines had a dispute with him over water wells, and Isaac decided to dig another well for his own people.

[Nic Samojluk]

Actually, it is an interesting study to find the roots of "religious corporations." They are a "child of the Papacy."

My understainding is that Adventists learned the benefits of incorporation the hard way. At first, church property was held in the name of some individual members, and there were instances where some took advantage of this situation by stealing said property from the church.

[Nic Samojluk]

Sha-zam, talk about somebody being in the dark. . .I didn't know that our Church formed a corporation. It's rather embarrasing tohave been so far down in the cabbage patch. I've been part of a corporation, worked for corporations, filed corporation papers for businesses and so know a lot about what it means to be incorporated. There's no reason for this Church to incorporate. This entity was set up to protect businesses and was never intended to be involved in Church affairs. I find it appalling that this church would spend our tithe monies for such stupidity. This outfit is getting no more of my ten percent, period...They can protect their precious name out of there own deep pockets.

If you do away with incorporation, who would hold title to all the church buildings, schools, and medical institutions? Members eventually die, corporation do not. Besides, people might be tempted to steal said properties once their names are on the titles.

[Nic Samojluk]

Just call it the Creation Church of 7th-day Sabbath-Keepers and have it done with... Nuff Sed

Or simply "Creation Advent Church."

[Stan]

ANY guesses what he will try to do next for his 15 minutes of fame?

Best guesser gets 1000 ClubAdventist Points.

[Nic Samojluk]

Barbara McGillAdvent Life Center

PRESS CONFERENCE JULY 15 2:00 PM PASTOR TO BE JAILED OVER RELIGIOUS LIBERTY ISSUE

Who: Pastor Walter “Chick” McGill, missionary to Africa and pastor of the Tennessee congregation of the Creation 7th Day Adventist Church.

What: At the behest of the Seventh-day Adventist denomination, a Federal warrant has been issued for Pastor McGill’s arrest due to contempt of court for “trademark infringement.”

He is turning himself in to the authorities and will be fasting from solid food during his incarceration.

When: Sunday, July 15th @ 2:00pm Pacific

Where: Loma Linda University Church of Seventh-day Adventists (Campus Street)

Why: The Seventh-day Adventist Church, a world-wide religious body known for its strong religious liberty stance, has petitioned Federal courts to issue a warrant for Pastor

McGill’s arrest after his refusal to comply with court orders requiring him to cease using the name of his religion—a name that, according to the denomination, is “confusingly similar” to their trademark church name.

The case has gone to the Supreme Court, with McGill arguing that the term describes his religion, and his use is required in order to practice his faith.

The Courts agreed, acknowledging that requiring him to stop employing the name would “substantially burden” his religious practice, further noting that McGill had “no intent to confuse or deceive the public,” as he embraced the name “based on divine revelation.”

Regardless, the Seventh-day Adventist church successfully argued a technicality that the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA)—a law they lobbied for originally—should not be applied to private party cases, thus forbidding the court from considering McGill’s First Amendment defense.

Interestingly, the Seventh-day Adventist church reversed its position at the Supreme Court level, instead arguing that the

RFRA should be applied in private party cases—just not in this one.

Seventh-day Adventist spokesmen have denied that there is any religious liberty issue attached to the case, calling it “purely legal” despite the court’s acknowledging Pr. McGill’s religious convictions as being sincere.

Ellen G. White, considered a prophetess by both the Seventh-day Adventist denomination and Creation Seventh Day Adventists, stated in the mid-1800s that the name was God-given, and its use is a requirement for all of the faithful.

More information may be found at:

Summary of the Conflict: http://www.PastorWalterChickMcGillLawsuit.net

Chronological Lawsuit History: http://www.csda-adventistchurch.to

Why Pastor Walter “Chick” McGill is not affiliated with General Conference Seventh-day Adventist Chu

http://www.PastorWalterChickMcGillLawsuit.net

Pastor Walter

[Nic Samojluk]

It looks like Pastor Chick believes that, since Ellen White did state that the Seventh-day Adventist name was given by God to his people, then it follows that no one has the right to deprive and Adventist from using this name.

This seems logical, nevertheless, in the Bible we find the example of Isaac who, when the Philistines argued with him over the right ownership of two wells he had dug, he went ahead and dug a third one for himself and his people instead of fighting for his rights to the other two water wells he had dug before.

[Nic Samojluk]

Some of you may not know that the pastor of the Creation 7th Day Adventist Church was arrested upon his arrival to Loma Linda and was being held in the San Bernardino jail. This is a sad day for Adventism. Why would the General Conference jail someone for emphasizing Creation in the name of his church puzzles me a great deal!

When John and James forbade those who were preaching in the name of Jesus without proper authorization, and they wanted fire from heaven to fall on them, Jesus reprimanded them for their exclusiveness. But here, we are fighting someone who is using the Adventist name in his preaching. Pastor McGill is determined to refuse all solid food as long as he remains in jail, I was told.

[Overaged]

Some of you may not know that the pastor of the Creation 7th Day Adventist Church was arrested upon his arrival to Loma Linda and was being held in the San Bernardino jail. This is a sad day for Adventism. Why would the General Conference jail someone for emphasizing Creation in the name of his church puzzles me a great deal!

When John and James forbade those who were preaching in the name of Jesus without proper authorization, and they wanted fire from heaven to fall on them, Jesus reprimanded them for their exclusiveness. But here, we are fighting someone who is using the Adventist name in his preaching. Pastor McGill is determined to refuse all solid food as long as he remains in jail, I was told.

Nic; please get your story straight. The General Conference cannot jail people. This pastor was arrested for breaking the law, and I don't see how that could be "a sad day for Adventism" The guy is asking for trouble and he is getting it. And whats so important about the dude going on a hunger strike? Thats his own choice and no one is forcing him to do it. neither does it prove anything except that the "pastor" is stubborn. People should also know that he actually is not a Pastor, and his "Church" has 3 or 4 members.....

[Woody]

What a sad day for Christianity - that a man would behave like this.

[Gail]

Eugene Prewitt posted this recently (and in a timely fashion, for me personally) on Facebook:

Quote:

As much as lies on your part, live at peace with all men. But fanatics are not likely to be placated either by unimpassioned discussion nor my humble questions. James White dealt with them firmly. Maybe the time is just upon us when we will have to learn how to do the same without betraying the Savior by an unholy temper.

Do you think this fits here?

[Stan]

No one is stopping him from preaching, or having a ministry, no one, what he has been doing is impersonating the Adventist Church.

[Overaged]

And saying he is a "pastor" when he is not.

[Overaged]

Eugene Prewitt posted this recently (and in a timely fashion, for me personally) on Facebook:

Quote:

As much as lies on your part, live at peace with all men. But fanatics are not likely to be placated either by unimpassioned discussion nor my humble questions. James White dealt with them firmly. Maybe the time is just upon us when we will have to learn how to do the same without betraying the Savior by an unholy temper.

Do you think this fits here?

It fits well; and I think that's what the GC is trying to do...

[teresaq]

Eugene Prewitt posted this recently (and in a timely fashion, for me personally) on Facebook:

Quote:

As much as lies on your part, live at peace with all men. But fanatics are not likely to be placated either by unimpassioned discussion nor my humble questions. James White dealt with them firmly. Maybe the time is just upon us when we will have to learn how to do the same without betraying the Savior by an unholy temper.

Do you think this fits here?

Nice thought.

On a different note, I had a picture of what a fanatic is, til someone pointed out a situation where someone was praying for JW and JW identified the person praying for him as a fanatic. Has me rethinking my picture.

I haven't had a chance yet but I hope to do some research and see what Ellen White and our Pioneers considered as fanatics.

[Overaged]

I haven't had a chance yet but I hope to do some research and see what Ellen White and our Pioneers considered as fanatics.

I like this idea...

[Nic Samojluk]

Nic; please get your story straight. The General Conference cannot jail people. This pastor was arrested for breaking the law, and I don't see how that could be "a sad day for Adventism" The guy is asking for trouble and he is getting it. And whats so important about the dude going on a hunger strike? Thats his own choice and no one is forcing him to do it. neither does it prove anything except that the "pastor" is stubborn. People should also know that he actually is not a Pastor, and his "Church" has 3 or 4 members.....

I did get my story straight from the horse's mouth. Here is my exchange with a member of the Creation 7th Day Adventist church. I will let him answer your objection:

“I received the following query from an Adventist pro-lifer. What should I tell him?”

“Nic, what is the real scoop on the Creation Seventh-day Adventist Church? The General Conference claims that no congregation actually exists except perhaps Pastor Chick and his family. The GC calls it “a church of mirrors” – in other words, a mirage. What do you know about this? I’m curious.””

Here is the way he answer my question:

Hello,

I appreciate that you like the name, but I do not think you are fully understanding the principles involved. For us, it is not a matter of “our taking a name;” we believe the name “Creation Seventh Day Adventist” was given by God directly to our movement in much the same way “Seventh-day Adventist” was given to Mrs. White. We cannot alter the thing that has gone out of his lips, or make a new one to replace it.

That being said, we have attempted to cooperate with the “leading men” inasmuch as our consciences would allow. For a time we sported the name “A Creation 7th Day & Adventist Church,” clearly designating the “Creation” as part of the name, not a modifier. This was not considered acceptable.

At the present time, we have been enjoined from using “Seventh day,” or “Adventist,” or “Advent,” or anything remotely similar. There is no “slight change” we could make that would placate our persecutors; they demand the entire name be surrendered. We could not even call ourselves “7th Day Christians” or “Advent Church” to avoid the lawsuit, were we of a mind to do so.

As far as animosity, I tell you the truth; none of our membership hold animosity towards the Conference’s membership. We pray for them daily to see what it is they are doing, and to be found clean before God in the day of judgment. The men who are putting us in jail for our faith deserve our sorrow and love, because unless they repent, this will be the only life they have. I pray that, at the least, they will have the best they can of it while it lasts.

As far as their animosity towards us, I truly cannot tell you anything except that Cain slew Abel “because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.” They have claimed that we have “defrauded” them, but have never shown how. Given we do not pass an offering plate, I cannot see how we could have. They have accused us of impersonating them, yet even the courts ruled that this was absurd – no one has ever been confused by our name into thinking we were of the Conference.

Because the Conference has never made an attempt to reason with us – or even asked us politely to change our name before starting litigation – we have no way of knowing what their reasoning was. They have ignored our attempts to “reason together” with them for two decades. Certainly they have spent far more money on putting us in jail than they ever were in danger of losing by our influence.

As far as your pro-life questioner, I am sorry to say that the words he is reporting do not come from the General Conference, but from a very bitter individual named Eugene Shubert. Mr. Shubert is an independent minister who has for some years now dedicated a website to attacking Pr. McGill and the CSDA Church with various outright falsehoods and misrepresented statements.

If you will do a Google search for “Walter McGill Hoax” you will find a webpage answering his allegations written by Pr. McGill. You will also find repeated forum posts by Mr. Shubert, which easily reveal his spirit and that of his accusations.

For now, suffice to say that we have more than one congregation (one in Africa has several pictures available online, for example) and that the Church consists of far more than Pastor McGill and his wife. I suppose that much is obvious, since I am a member, and my last name is not McGill.

If you have more questions, please do not hesitate to contact me personally. You may email me at claimvictory @ hotmail . com if you would like any information, references, resources, explanations, etc.

[Nic Samojluk]

And saying he is a "pastor" when he is not.

How do you define a pastor? One who has a degree from Andrews University and has been ordained by the Adventist Church or one who is taking care of his sheep? How were Paul and Silas ordained?

[Nic Samojluk]

I had a picture of what a fanatic is, til someone pointed out a situation where someone was praying for JW and JW identified the person praying for him as a fanatic. Has me rethinking my picture. I haven't had a chance yet but I hope to do some research and see what Ellen White and our Pioneers considered as fanatics.

A fanatic is anyone who persists in disagreeing with me!

[Overaged]

Those "Mr Shubert" posts should be exciting to read...wow. I am not sure how you can believe this; but I am done here in this topic. I have no time to watse on fairy tales without evidence. Atleast you admitted the man is not a Pastor.

[Nic Samojluk]

Overaged wrote:

“Those "Mr. Shubert" posts should be exciting to read...wow. I am not sure how you can believe this; but I am done here in this topic. I have no time to waste on fairy tales without evidence. At least you admitted the man is not a Pastor.”

Did I give you any indication that I recommended to you the writings of Eugene Shubert. Did you read with care what Lucan wrote? He showed no interest in the material Shubert sent to him! Did you notice that? You need to pay more attention to what you read if you want to preserve your credibility!

[Overaged]

As I said; atleast you admit the man is not a Pastor.

[Nic Samojluk]

As I said; atleast you admit the man is not a Pastor.

You must reading between the lines. When did I admit that he was not a pastor? A pastor is one who leads a group of believers, and he has several such congregations.

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

As I said; atleast you admit the man is not a Pastor.

You must reading between the lines. When did I admit that he was not a pastor? A pastor is one who leads a group of believers, and he has several such congregations.

Word Web Dictionary re "Pastor" = "A person authorized to conduct religious worship" So now you are going to strive at knats over definition of pastor? get real Nic. The man is a self proclaimed truthmonger and has no authorized credentials or education to be anything close to a Pastor.