The church manual - Disfellowshipped

[aPegThatStandsUp]

Ok, my church has decided to censure someone without a church meeting. They also voted to let a different person transfer churches, but then when to the recieving church and created a stir that prevented the transfer to go through from that end. The church manual is being called a "heavy burden" of law. I am not really in favor of the person being censured, but I am not in favor of closed door censuring either. Is this manual a "guideline"? Is it odd that is being skipped? Why won't anyone speak up? Who enforces the manual? The whole thing is creepy. Like your in jail with no formal charges but you can't get out until you confess. And no it's not me ... well not yet. And I'll confess .. I think this is dirty pool.

[John317]

My personal experience is that congregations and churches in our denomination usually have good reasons for making these kinds of decisions. I would have to know far more than I do to say the church is in the wrong.

[aPegThatStandsUp]

My question was procedural. Vote to allow a transfer, then stop the transfer on the other side. (Circumventing the church body) Censure but no open proceedings. (Circumventing the church body).

Thanks ... I kept asking around ... And the answer is the same. They can do want ever they want and there is no one to oversee it.

I can no longer abide by this. I will resign. Not because of doctrine, not because I am in trouble, just because I think without well defined and enforced procedures from the confernce this policy leaves the sheep open to abuse.

[CoAspen]

You might voluntarily ask this thread to be moved...as this is supposed to be a non-serious forum!!

[Dr. Shane]

It does seem like the Church Manual is being discarded which probably means they have not been following Matthew 18 either. Since the pastor actually works for the conference and not the local church, you need to write to your conference president and inform him that it appears the Church Manual is not being followed. Try to have a nice spirit, pray before writing the letter and let your spouse read it before you send it. You may ask the conference president if he could arrange a meeting where the pastor and one of the conference officers could meet with a few of you from the church that have concerns and explain why the Church Manual was not followed. Try not to accuse the pastor or the church board of doing something malicious, simply ask the question "if they ignored the Church Manual, what was the reason for doing so?"

The Church Manual is the combine experience of all the world divisions which has been developed over the history of our denomination. When a local congregation ignores it, they are basically stating that they are smarter and wiser than the combined world church. There may be some special circumstances that are not addressed in the Church Manual. In such a case, the local pastor should have contacted some conference officials to get suggestions and guidance on how to handle them.

[miz3]

Ok, my church has decided to censure someone without a church meeting. They also voted to let a different person transfer churches, but then when to the recieving church and created a stir that prevented the transfer to go through from that end. The church manual is being called a "heavy burden" of law. I am not really in favor of the person being censured, but I am not in favor of closed door censuring either. Is this manual a "guideline"? Is it odd that is being skipped? Why won't anyone speak up? Who enforces the manual? The whole thing is creepy. Like your in jail with no formal charges but you can't get out until you confess. And no it's not me ... well not yet. And I'll confess .. I think this is dirty pool.

I have seen this before on more occasions than I care to know. It all depends on who (single person, or group of persons) controls the church (and the church board)!

Its all about politics, power, and control!

Having said that does not mean that those persons are wrong in their assessments of those they seek to remove. They could be right or they could be wrong? We would have to know more details to say for sure.

I will agree with you in this that it is not correct procedure to take such a bold action without the whole church signing off on it.

If you cannot get others in the Church to demand and get a different process then I agree with what Shane told you to do!

Local Church politics can at times be very dirty, vindictive, and nasty. However there are legitimate reasons for actually removing persons from the Church. The process even when followed legitimately is hard on everyone. When the process is done for illegitimate reasons or proper processes are not followed then it often creates hard and lasting bad feelings. Such hard feelings can affect a church for years and certainly will depress the congeniality of the church for a long time to come.

[ClubV12]

Censure is different than disfellowship.

I'm not sure about censure, but there is no question disfellowship requires a church business meeting. The board cannot take this action, only recommend it to the body of believers, who then vote.

But the board MAY have the power to censure without bringing the specific issue to the body of believers. Depending on the circumstances the entire body of believers do not need to be aware of the action and the specifics that led to the action being taken. Some of that depends on whether or not the problem was a public issue, in which case the entire body of believers needs to know the circumstances (but NOT the details). But in a private matter I can see where censure may be required, and it is proper and just to limit the circle of those who know the circumstances.

Church membership CANNOT be changed to another church while a member is under censure. So it is entirely correct for the "home" church to inform the "new" church of the situation. Not only correct, it is a requirement of the manual.

I can see where the "home" church would allow one to transfer his/her membership, but if your under censure they are still obligated to tell the "new" church. The "new" church is basically obligated as well to deny the transfer of membership, because of the censure.

The problem here seems to be someone under censure asked to transfer his membership. NOT a good move, there will be no happy ending at either church in this case until censure is removed.

[Dr. Shane]

I don't have the most recent Church Manual but the one I have reads like this:

"An erring member may be placed under censure by a vote of the church at any duly called meeting of the church, provided the member concerned is notified. The individual may be present if he or she so desires...

Members may be disciplined by the church for sufficient cause, but only at a duly called business meeting of the church, provided the meeting is presided over by an ordained minister or a local ordained elder of the church concerned."

[ClubV12]

Well there it is Shane!!! Well done, a "vote of the church" is typically called a "business meeting". It certainly appears from the manual that just like disfellowship, censure cannot be done by the board alone, the body of believers has to vote on it.