Innovators

[Stan]

you can't be an innovator if you want to be like everyone else. Apple has come under a lot of fire for not being like all the other computers.

They dumped all the standards, like those big floppy drives, then the small ones, no more rs232 connectors, the invented USB, Firewire, Truetype fonts, and a host of other things that are now standard.

First to have CD slots, and the first to have DVD writers.

Laggards never set the standards.

[Stan]

You also don't become the fastest growing Church by becoming like every other Church.

My advice for Churches

"differentiate or die"

[Gail]

Nice tie-in... I was telling my boss that we should do something like that with our ABC- capitalize on its uniqueness

[Stan]

can you imagine if GM came out with a car, and said this is like everyone elses are, it has the very same feature.. tires, radio, AC etc etc... few if anyone would buy it.

[lazarus]

You also don't become the fastest growing Church by becoming like every other Church.

My advice for Churches

"differentiate or die"

Stan, I'm with you but for many SDA churches being the "same" (like other SDA churches in the past) is a mark of true Adventistism. Again, the death of a church would be the fault of the "world" not the church according to some.

For some of my members growing fast is a sign of conformity to the world. Go figure that!

[Dr. Rich]

You also don't become the fastest growing Church by becoming like every other Church.

My advice for Churches

"differentiate or die"

I object Stan! God's Kingdom of Heaven is not a business and is in no need of growing by deception by watering down the truth.

[cricket]

Truth is different enough.

[Stan]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

You also don't become the fastest growing Church by becoming like every other Church.

My advice for Churches

"differentiate or die"

I object Stan! God's Kingdom of Heaven is not a business and is in no need of growing by deception by watering down the truth.

Might want to rethink what I said then.....

[LifeHiscost]

Truth is different enough.

There are 500 different church organizations that keep the Seventh Day Sabbath. One emphasizes the 3 angel's messages, as well as the investigative judgement. We need not try to be different. We only need to uphold the Truth we have been given to share, without excluding the main thrust of the Word, that being that we are saved by grace through faith in the cleansing power of the blood of Jesus.

"Therefore, Come out from among them. And be separate, says the Lord.Do not touch what is unclean,And I will receive you.”"2 Corinthians 6:17 NKJV

God blesses!

[Dr. Rich]

That is not truth. Truth is what Jesus said and taught and it is singular and absolute. If Jesus didn't say it, then it is not truth and Jesus never said anyone is saved by grace or anything about righteousness by faith. If I am wrong, I will need to be shown where this is wrong.

[John317]

...

Stan, I'm with you but for many SDA churches being the "same" (like other SDA churches in the past) is a mark of true Adventistism. Again, the death of a church would be the fault of the "world" not the church according to some.

SDA churches do need to be in harmony with each other in terms of the message; otherwise, the message will only be confusion and people won't hear it clearly. What if some SDAs are teaching one thing and other SDAs are teaching the opposite?

That is already what happens too often on the Internet, but fortunately most of our churches are teaching the same basic message. I love singing the same hymns and hearing the same Good News when I visit different SDA churches.

[John317]

Truth is what Jesus said and taught and it is singular and absolute. If Jesus didn't say it, then it is not truth and Jesus never said anyone is saved by grace or anything about righteousness by faith. If I am wrong, I will need to be shown where this is wrong.

Of course what Jesus said and taught is truth, but Jesus didn't say everything He had to tell His followers. They weren't yet ready to hear everything. He would teach a lot more through the Apostles Paul, Peter, and John.

Do you remember how Christ healed people by grace? Did you know that "healed" is the same word as "save"? Christ's miracles were little sermons, kind of like illustrations of the gospel.

Also, do you recall how Jesus said "Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled"?

And, "Be of good cheer...; your faith has made you well"?

Notice that Jesus raised the dead? Did the dead deserve it? Did they do any special work for that gift?

Jesus said, "According to your faith, let it be to you."

Jesus was teaching and illustrating "righteousness by faith," Dr. Rich.

[Dr. Rich]

John, I guess I read with a different pair of glasses as what you wrote had nothing to do with being saved (going to heaven) or being righteous by faith! Your assuming is nuts to me! I am really sorry to hear that you think Jesus's ministry was not enough to understand how salvation works.

Please tell me what it was the Jesus didn't tell us that is so important for our understanding salvation? If you can do this, then I will check it out. Thanks.

[LifeHiscost]

Please tell me what it was the Jesus didn't tell us that is so important for our understanding salvation? If you can do this, then I will check it out. Thanks.

"I had to feed you with milk, not with solid food, because you weren’t ready for anything stronger. And you still aren’t ready,"1 Corinthians 3:2 NLT

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go the Father"John 14:12 NASB

"Jesus also did many other things. If they were all written down, I suppose the whole world could not contain the books that would be written."John 21:25 NLT

God blesses!

[John317]

.... I am really sorry to hear that you think Jesus's ministry was not enough to understand how salvation works.

This statement is a bit like telling someone they are glad to hear their wife is no longer being beaten. I never said my wife was being beaten, and neither have I ever said that I thought Christ didn't make the subject of salvation clear.

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

...Please tell me what it was the Jesus didn't tell us that is so important for our understanding salvation?...

He didn't tell us during His earthly ministry anything about the Investigative Judgment, although he did clearly allude to it in Matt. 22. The reason Christ didn't tell the people of that day all about the Investigative Judgment is that it didn't have to do with them. That is also why the visions of Daniel were sealed for a long time-- because they pertain to the end-times. And we are living in the end-times. God wants us to study and understand them, applying their truths to our individual lives in order to be prepared for the things that will happen just before the return of Christ.

[Dr. Rich]

Oh? So what is so important about the IJ that not knowing about it would keep someone from understanding how salvation works? No wonder so many people on this blog don't believe in the Investigative Judgment, perhaps it is a lie? Huh? Ever think of that? Where do you see anything about the IJ in Revelation? If it were important, don't you think Jesus would make sure John would have written something about it?

[Stan]

back to topic.

[olger]

While there is a place for innovation, it must not become an end to itself lest it lead to unbiblical quagmire. I can cite a living example from my own state.

rejoice always,

`oG

[Dr. Rich]

Innovators may be just another way of saying compromise. Jesus never did that.

[lazarus]

SDA churches do need to be in harmony with each other in terms of the message; otherwise, the message will only be confusion and people won't hear it clearly. What if some SDAs are teaching one thing and other SDAs are teaching the opposite?

I think we can have innovation and a creativity and still teach the same message. The challenge comes when not having the same hymns/songs dress code, order of service is interpreted as having a different message.

[olger]

Innovators may be just another way of saying compromise. Jesus never did that.

[CoAspen]

Agree, Christ was the innovator for His day and time on earth. Status quo, not Him! He set the world on its head! Since when did innovation become a feared word? Hmmmmmmm.......

[Stan]

The 5-day plan was a huge innovation.

The CHIP plan is a huge innovation.

If what you are doing is accomplishing the great commission in your area there is not need to look for improvement.

And BTY innovation is NOT trying to become like every other Church, That is copying.

Either

Lead

Follow or

Get out of the WAY

[Tom Wetmore]

...Since when did innovation become a feared word? Hmmmmmmm.......

Since a conservative mindset confused it with another word (compromise) that means something entirely different. Understand that a conservative mindset is simply afraid of change, anything different or new.

A conservative mindset is ultimately a compromise with the reality of time. It simply pretends that time has stood still.

Time waits for no man. Why pretend that it has?

[Dr. Shane]

The Adventist message is a message of love. I loaned a copy of "Seventh-day Adventists Believe..." to an Assemblies of God friend when I was in college. She read the entire book over the weekend and decided she wanted to join the Adventist movement by profession of faith. She told me that what she found most objectionable about Assembly of God is that they are so strict and legalistic. Then she added, and Adventists are more strict but it is all about love. She said couldn't put the book down that as she read it, page after page, it was all about love.

Many Christian denominations are really about fear. The Adventist church is all about love. If we want to be innovative, we should find a way to show that love is the basis for our beliefs.