The Stirring

[Truth Files]

The current unrest and rebellion in a number of Middle Eastern Islamic states will lead to the coming of the "lawless one", the "other prince" revealed in Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 9:26-27; 11:36-45; 12:7; 2Thessalonians 2:2-12; Revelation 9:11; 11:2; 13:1-5; 17:8-14

This Islamic "little horn" will emerge at the beginning of the coming 70th week decreed for Israel [Daniel 9:24-27] and the Lord's hour [time] of trial and judgment against an unbelieving world .... his revealing will be by the workings of Satan.

He will appear in the north central sector of the Middle East and he will proceed to capitalize upon the Islamic masses who are currently engaged in attempting to overthrow established autocratic governments.

These who are striving to escape years of the suppression by dictatorial kings unknowingly seek a different form of the same that will be the stride of this coming theocratic evil tyrant who will unite them into a confederation of transgressors that will follow him

Islam will be his cult religion and the two major divisions of Shiite and Sunni Islamic persuasion [Revelation 13:11] will at first clash with one another, but will ultimately be united into a unified confederation which will invade and occupy Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38; Daniel 2:33; 2:41-33; 7:7-25; 11:40-41; Revelation 13:11-18]

At the same time these will seek to eliminate the Israelite nation and to gain world domination, and they will cause great upheaval and destruction of the rest of the nations of the world during a period of unprecedented deception, vexation, and horror [Daniel 11:40; 11:44; Revelation 13:14-15; 17:16-18; 18:1-21]

All of this will be a part of the Lord's visitation [Psalms 2; Revelation 3:10; 6:12-17] to punish the earth dwellers who have refused to believe the truth about Him and He will give them the devil [1Thessalonians 2:2-12; Revelation 12:7-9; 12:12]

Jesus Christ will then turn on this beast [in the little horn] and his followers and destroy them at Armageddon [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38; 39; Joel 2; 3; Micah 5:5-6; Zechariah 12;13; 14; Revelation 14:14-20; 16:1-16; 19:11-21]

Observation of the current Middle East setting reflects the coming biblical description of the unfulfilled portions of visions of the Bible prophets for the time of the end of this present age

The individual rebellions of today's Middle Eastern states are workings of sinister satanic forces through Islamic terrorist factions who will end up being drawn by Islam's coming "Mahdi" to serve him in his quest for world domination [Daniel 11:36-45], but these are heading for a confrontation with Jesus Christ, the King of Kings who is coming to the earth to take back what is rightfully His [Ezekiel 39; Daniel 2:44-45; Micah 4; 5; Revelation 10:7; 11:15-18; 12:10; 14:7; 16:1-16; 19:11-21]

[Haldog]

Praise God that Christians will be raptured before this all takes place. It's nice to see someone else recognize Islam for what it is. It had it's origins in the mother-son cult of Nimrod just as the Catholic church did.

[nuff sed]

You don't really believe in "The Rapture" do you? Unless you mean the Second Coming when all the righteous are taken and the wicked slain....awaiting the 3rd and final Coming. Nuff sed

[ClubV12]

The 70 weeks, 490 years, began in 457 BC and ended in 34 AD with the stoning of Stephen. It's just a part of the larger 2,300 year prophecy that began in 457 and ended in 1844.

The concept of a rapture is a "feels good" thing, in that people will have a second chance to get right with God. This is a terrible false hood, lulling people into thinking if they don't live right with God now, thats OK, because theres always a second chance. Some will decide they may have no choice but to "wait" for that to come around. It won't happen. Right now, today and every day, is the time appointed to get right with God. Not some time in the future where if you miss the first call you can make it on the second one.

The Lord will return, ONE more time to this present earth as we know it. And EVERY eye shall see Him when He does, for this planet, at that time, it's game over. No second chances, probation will have ended, decisions for life or death will have been made.

The third coming Nuff Sed speaks of is the restoration of the earth, but it will be far to late to make a decision about salvation when that event comes to fruition.

[phkrause]

The 70 weeks, 490 years, began in 457 BC and ended in 34 AD with the stoning of Stephen. It's just a part of the larger 2,300 year prophecy that began in 457 and ended in 1844.

The concept of a rapture is a "feels good" thing, in that people will have a second chance to get right with God. This is a terrible false hood, lulling people into thinking if they don't live right with God now, thats OK, because theres always a second chance. Some will decide they may have no choice but to "wait" for that to come around. It won't happen. Right now, today and every day, is the time appointed to get right with God. Not some time in the future where if you miss the first call you can make it on the second one.

The Lord will return, ONE more time to this present earth as we know it. And EVERY eye shall see Him when He does, for this planet, at that time, it's game over. No second chances, probation will have ended, decisions for life or death will have been made.

The third coming Nuff Sed speaks of is the restoration of the earth, but it will be far to late to make a decision about salvation when that event comes to fruition.

[Truth Files]

This post is about the Middle East and the location of the rising of Satan's beast in the little horn of Daniel's visions

[The Lord's "harpazo" action to immortalize His church is a different but related subject and I will post another thread on this significant event soon .... all need to know the truth about His intents with regard to what some call the "rapture" and the timing of the same]

..... I will continue with the "Stirring"

The past rule of Abaddon-Apollyon ..... and his future return to rule again:

Revelation

9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

17:8 The beast that thou sawest was ruling [in the ancient past], and is not [was not ruling in the first century .... and still is not]; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit [at the time of the end of this present age to rule again [Revelation 9:1; 9:11, 11:7] , and go into perdition [his destruction [Revelation 19:20]: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. [this angelic beast rules over 7 Middle Eastern kingdoms for Satan ..... 5 have fallen .... and 2 will follow at the time of the end of this present age]

17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads [kingdoms of the Middle East] are seven mountains, on which the woman [the great city part of MBG [lost humanity], sitteth [this great city of the gentiles is dominating the beast's kingdom of the Middle East at the time of the end] [Revelation 17:16-18; 18:1-21].

17:10 And there are seven kings [human king positions of the beast's kingdoms]: five are fallen [neo-Babylon [lion], Media-Persia [bear], Alexander-Syrio/Babylonia [leopard]] [Daniel 7:3-7; Revelation 13:1-4], and one is [at the beginning of the time of the end of this present age .... the smaller kingdom .... the 6th;[ Daniel 8:9], and the other is not yet come .... the 7th divided kingdom of iron and clay; and when he cometh [the beast], he must continue a short space. [Revelation 11:2; 11:7; 13:5]

17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth [will fully possess the little horn of Daniel's visions [Daniel 8:9-12; 23-25; 9:26-27; 11:36-45; 12:7]; and become the 8th king himself .... the combination of a human king and fallen angel], and is of the seven [rules over all of the 7 human kingdoms and related king positions], and goeth into perdition. [to his destruction [Daniel 11:45; Revelation 19:20]

17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings [Daniel 7:7-8], which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour [a short period of 42 months] [Revelation 11:2; 13:5] with the beast.

17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. [Revelation 19:11-21]

[Aliensanctuary]

It does appear in scripture that Israel will yet again be overrun and driven into exile, but not before Syria and a few other places over there are turned into a wasteland. Upon their return from exile, Jerusalem and the temple are rebuilt by those who have re-established communication with the LORD. For how long, years or centuries, the city and temple remain until Gogue and Magogue mount their assault, just prior to the 1K years, we don't know. Most of us will likely be sleeping in the grave long before.

The Kingdom of Radical Islam would love to destroy everyone and everything, including entire cities, that do not conform to its religion or serve its God. Once it possesses nuclear weapons, the whole world will be their hostage.

[Truth Files]

Alien,

Israel will again be invaded and by Satan's [gog's] beast of Revelation 9:11 in the little horn of Daniel's visions at the time of the end of this present age .... some will be driven out, some will flee for the Lord's protection, and many will be killed [Jeremiah 30; Daniel 12; Zechariah 13:8-9; 14:4-5; Matthew 24:15-16; Luke 21:20-24; Revelation 11:2]

The little horn will be a northern Middle Eastern King of Islamic persuasion [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38; 39; Daniel 7:7-25; 8:9-12; 8:23-25; 11:36-45; 12:7; Micah 5:5-6]

Ezekiel's vision has this Satanically driven king invading Israel at the middle of the 70th week decreed for the nation .... and the resultant battle of Armageddon 42 months later [this vision has two parts .... the invasion and then Lord's intervention at Armageddon

Satan is addressed as gog in this vision [Ezekiel 38:17]

Once defeated at Armageddon, Satan will be captured and sent to the abyss where he cannot deceive the nations during the Lord's coming millennial kingdom, but he will be released to cause a final human rebellion [symbolically gog and magog] and then destroyed in the Lord's lake of fire [Revelation 20:1-3; 20:7-10]

There will not be a tribulation temple of the Lord's on the mount and I will post more on this subject in a new thread ..... the little horn will sit in the temple of his "god" [who is Satan] which is already on the mount today [2Thessalonians 2:2-12; Revelation 11:2]

I believe you are correct regarding the cult religion of Satan's beast in the little horn [the "Assyrian" .... Micah 5:5-6] as described in Daniel 8:23-25 and Revelation 13:11-18

.... a religion of "peace" [looks like a lamb] that speaks like a dragon [satan] .... this is Islam

And I agree that many of the Lord's church will be sleeping [in death] before the time of the end time of this age begins ..... but some will still be living [this is a different subject that requires a different thread which I will present]

The beginning of the time [dating] of the end has not been revealed by the Lord .... it will come suddenly and with no warning .... and it could happen before this day is over .... and this is why the Lord has said that one must be ready at all times

[ClubV12]

Stephen, your proposed interpretation of Revelation is incorrect and wrong on SO many levels! The errors are substantial.

[Truth Files]

Club,

I don't think so

[ClubV12]

Stephen, of course you don't! Your ignoring the fact that the Lord has given us a messenger for our time, Ellen White, to help us correctly interpret Daniel and Revelation. For those who do not accept her status as a prophtess, there is no end to the various interpretations of the prophecies. Baptist have one view, Mormons another, Catholics have their take on the subject, so many voices, so many variations. Yours is just another in a long list of such wild ideas.

What makes the Seventh-day Adventist beliefs different is that we DO accept the Lords messenger, Ellen White, to correct these errors. Without her counsel, your on your own, no different than any other group or person with his own personal ideas on the subject.

[Truth Files]

Club,

I typically do not debate the rendering of the prophetic scriptures on a public forum, but just share information [i will be making a number of postings on Bible prophecy and if one has reasonable questions I will respond]

I am fully aware of Miller and White's presentation of their ideas related to prophecy and understand this in great detail .... I just do not buy it

I don't think either one of them understood the prophetic visions of the Bible suffficiently enough in their day

But I am not here to argue over this issue .... so you will hae to find someone else to debate .... I am certain that you can do this

[ClubV12]

"I don't think either one of them understood the prophetic visions of the Bible suffficiently enough in their day..."

There are many on this forum struggling to figure out whether they believe some, in part or the whole of Ellen Whites work. I find it particularly annoying that some folks agree she is a prophet and yet, reject any of her work they don't personally agree with. Much better for those that are straight up about it, believe in her message, or not, I'm OK with that.

I very much appreciate your honesty on the issue of Ellen White and William Miller. No need to argue over anything, I'm not going to brow beat in any regard. At the same time, I DO feel compelled to present an alternate view of your theories and site the source of my information.

In presenting an alternate view, the truth can stand as it will endure no matter what. That applies equally to your beliefs as well as mine.

[Truth Files]

Club stated:

"I DO feel compelled to present an alternate view of your theories and site the source of my information"

This you should do, but there will be no debating from me because I don't think it would serve any good purpose .... I do know and understand the SDA position in detail

I will respond to reasonable statements and questions if I feel that it will benefit the forum

I do discuss Bible prophecy with SDA members, several are my friends, but I just don't think White and Miller were up to the task of rendering the prophetic scriptures correctly ..... the study is not a mission for all who think they have think call

.... not all are called to do this

My own experience includes 35 years in the study including an in depth knowledge of ancient and modern history along with a wide view of the various professing christian organizations and movements from the RCC to the SDA, and even those like the MSOG christian cults

My sole objective is to share the more sure word of prophecy with believers who need reassurance about what they believe and why they believe .... and to reach non-believers who need convincing that the Bible is what it claims to be .... the Word of the living God

The correct rendering of the prophetic scriptures and comparative historical analysis can be used to prove it with no doubt

[ClubV12]

"My sole objective is to share the more sure word of prophecy with believers who need reassurance about what they believe and why they believe .... and to reach non-believers who need convincing that the Bible is what it claims to be .... the Word of the living God..."

We share the same objective. Indeed, bible prophecy CAN be understood. There were many others in William Miller's time, and today, outside the Advent movement, that came to the same conclusion on the time frame of the 2,300 year prophecy. I agree with them, and Ellen White, having studied closely the issue for myself. Including the world history.

I don't know the source for your conclusions on these matters, from where your ideas originate.

[Truth Files]

My renderings are my own and I do reference many others who have made a substantial contribution to the study

.... both those that I feel are on the right track and even others who are far off .... I follow no one in the process

I have no affiliation with any organized church or movement and will not .... I don't need it and I have found that this independance enhances my ability to witness

The Bible and nothing but the Bible is the only authority that can be relied upon to reveal truth

[ClubV12]

OK, thanks for that background Stephen. Indeed the bible and the bible alone is the only reliable and final source. How we interpret it and arrive at our conclusions is more problematic. Those sincerely mistaken along with those who have found the truth will both declare themselves to be led of the Holy Spirit in their conclusions.

[Truth Files]

Club,

I have had the experience of framing out a comprehensive view of the prophetic picture, but furhter study has driven me to return to the drawing board several times to perfect it .... I also watch political, civil, and religious movements around the globe intently for contrasting

If one is capable of seeking a more and completed understanding the Lord will withold nothing within the scope of His prophetic word from those who hold proper motives and are willing to do the work