The Controversy Over Zion

[Truth Files]

The Lord is going to win this one

There are those who think otherwise with their numbers being among those who hold preteristic, kingdom now, replacement, and conspiracy theologies ....very different movements .... same off course teaching .... same source .... one must know that Satan is behind the hatred against Israel

Placing the Lord's church of today in these visions simply does not work and those who attempt to wash national Israel out of the picture are standing against His intents

Let the Lord speak:

Jeremiah

30:1 The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,

30:2 Thus speaketh the LORD God of Israel, saying, Write thee all the words that I have spoken unto thee in a book.

30:3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it. [a returned remnant of Israel is in the land today pending the coming 70th week decreed for the nation]

30:4 And these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. [Ezekiel 36]

30:5 For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace.

30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?

30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it. [Daniel 11:41; 12:1-7; Zechariah 13:8-8; 14:1-5; Matthew 24:15-15; Luke 21:20-28; Romans 11:25-36]

30:8 For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his [satan’s beast in the little horn] yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him:

30:9 But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them.

30:10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. [israel’s ultimate position as the center of the Lord’s coming millennial kingdom upon the earth]

30:11 For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished.

30:12 For thus saith the LORD, Thy bruise is incurable, and thy wound is grievous.

30:13 There is none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines.

30:14 All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; because thy sins were increased.

30:15 Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow is incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: because thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.

30:16 Therefore all they that devour thee shall be devoured; and all thine adversaries, every one of them, shall go into captivity; and they that spoil thee shall be a spoil, and all that prey upon thee will I give for a prey.

30:17 For I will restore health unto thee, and I will heal thee of thy wounds, saith the LORD; because they called thee an Outcast, saying, This is Zion, whom no man seeketh after.

30:18 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will bring again the captivity of Jacob's tents, and have mercy on his dwellingplaces; and the city shall be builded upon her own heap, and the palace shall remain after the manner thereof.

30:19 And out of them shall proceed thanksgiving and the voice of them that make merry: and I will multiply them, and they shall not be few; I will also glorify them, and they shall not be small.

30:20 Their children also shall be as aforetime, and their congregation shall be established before me, and I will punish all that oppress them.

30:21 And their nobles shall be of themselves, and their governor shall proceed from the midst of them; and I will cause him to draw near, and he shall approach unto me: for who is this that engaged his heart to approach unto me? saith the LORD.

30:22 And ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

30:23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked. [Psalms 2]

30:24 The fierce anger of the LORD shall not return, until he hath done it, and until he have performed the intents of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider it.

Daniel

9:19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.

9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;

9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

9:22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.

9:23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

9:24 Seventy weeks [of years] are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks [69 weeks of years]: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself [end of 69th week]: [middle of the coming 70th week] and the people of the prince that shall come [satan’s beast in the little horn] shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

9:27 And he [the Lord] shall confirm the covenant [Jeremiah 31:31-37] with many [Revelation 7:4; Revelation 14:1; 14:4] for one week: and in the midst of the week he [the other prince …. Satan’s beast in the little horn] shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate [upon this prince and his followers] [Ezekiel 38; 39; Daniel 11:45; Joel 2:20; 3; Micah 5:5-6; Zechariah 12:2-3; 14:12-13; Revelation 16:1-16; 19:11-21] .

Jeremiah

31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant [Daniel 9:27] with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:

31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

Revelation

7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. [Daniel 9:27]

14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

14:2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

14:3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins [unlike their ancient ancestors who were drawn into idolatry by foreign women]. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits [first believers of the coming tribulation period] unto God and to the Lamb.

14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, [the 144,000 sealed will preach]

14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

Ezekiel

36:1 Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:

36:2 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession [the surrounding populations of Islam in the Middle East today]:

36:3 Therefore prophesy and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they have made you desolate, and swallowed you up on every side, that ye might be a possession unto the residue of the heathen, and ye are taken up in the lips of talkers, and are an infamy of the people:

36:4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that are round about;

36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea [Edom: symbolic of Israel’s ancient enemies, the descendants of Esau], which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey. [Psalms 83; Ezekiel 38; Daniel 11:41; Micah 5:5-6; Revelation 11:2; 13:1-5]

36:6 Prophesy therefore concerning the land of Israel, and say unto the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I have spoken in my jealousy and in my fury, because ye have borne the shame of the heathen:

36:7 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; I have lifted up mine hand, Surely the heathen that are about you, they shall bear their shame. [Psalms 83]

36:8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

36:9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

36:10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded: [isaiah 11; 27:13; Matthew 24:29-31]

36:11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.

36:12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

36:13 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations:

36:14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:15 Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations to fall any more, saith the Lord GOD.

36:16 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

36:18 Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it:

36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries: according to their way and according to their doings I judged them.

36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land.

36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went.

36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses: and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

36:33 Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.

36:34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by.

36:35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.

36:36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it. [Ezekiel 39]

36:37 Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will yet for this be enquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.

36:38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD. [Joel 3:17-21; Micah 4:1-3; 5:1-8; Zechariah 14:8-11]

[Truth Files]

The controversy over Zion continued .....

Psalms

83:1 Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.

83:2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.

83:3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.

83:4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance [these are the Muslims of the Middle East].

83:5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:

83:6 The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes [Egyptians];

83:7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;

83:8 Assur [iraq/Assyrian/Babylonian] also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah.

83:9 Do unto them as unto the Midianites; as to Sisera, as to Jabin, at the brook of Kison:

83:10 Which perished at Endor: they became as dung for the earth.

83:11 Make their nobles like Oreb, and like Zeeb: yea, all their princes as Zebah, and as Zalmunna:

83:12 Who said, Let us take to ourselves the houses of God in possession.

83:13 O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.

83:14 As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire;

83:15 So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.

83:16 Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD.

83:17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:

83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

[Aussiemike]

all Old Covenant'

We SDA believe it the New Covenant.

[Truth Files]

You have been deceived

[Aussiemike]

You have been deceived

Have i ?

How?

I am a seeker after truth. i have been looking at your posts and i am convinced that they are nothing but babel.

[Lysimachus]

I find it interesting how many like to accuse SDA of being all "Old Covenant" because we keep the Sabbath, etc., but it's really the other way around. Protestants become "obsessed" with the Old Covenant when it becomes convenient to them to taut their "distinction" or "second chance" theology.

Then when we present clear blazing passages from the writings of the New Testament that Jews and Gentiles have been made "one", and there is no distinction, and that Israel is realized in the Church, they completely ignore them and resort to darting Old Testament passages at you.

So thus we see who are truly "Old Covenant" people. SDA's are as New Covenant as New Covenant can get.

We keep the Ten Commandments--the "Testimony"-- that is sitting in the Heavenly Ark according to Revelation 11:19 and 15:5. These are the Ten Commandments of the NEW COVENANT, the "BETTER TESTAMENT", and guess what? They READ THE SAME!! =]

[phkrause]

I definitely agree with you Lysimachus.

And I don't see any controversy over Zion.

[ClubV12]

Is there a limit of how many threads one can post within a given time frame?

truthfiles has become a major spam source on this forum.

[phkrause]

Is there a limit of how many threads one can post within a given time frame?

truthfiles has become a major spam source on this forum.

Not sure there is a limit, if there were I think John would've said something by now. I do agree with one of your previous posts about "lets deal with one subject at a time" until it seems we've covered it and can't go anymore.