Was EGW Liberal?

[Stan]

EGW had to be the most liberal person in our Church.

New teachings

No sacred cows

Anti-slavery

Women Preaching

Vegetarianism

Fought for justice for writers

Told women in an abusive situation to get out and take your Children..

the list goes on and on and on...

[Twilight II]

EGW had to be the most liberal person in our Church.

New teachings

No sacred cows

Anti-slavery

Women Preaching

Vegetarianism

Fought for justice for writers

Told women in an abusive situation to get out and take your Children..

the list goes on and on and on...

I would call that "Christian", not "liberal"...

[bonnie]

Quote:

New teachings

No sacred cows

Anti-slavery

Women Preaching

Vegetarianism

Fought for justice for writers

Told women in an abusive situation to get out and take your Children..

the list goes on and on and on...

As opposed to those conservatives who want to go back to OT times?

Even tho conservatives were in favor of and voted for the civil rights they would still like to see slavery the law?

Diet has been part of God's people since the beginning but conservatives believe in a heavy diet of meat,clean and unclean?

Conservatives want to see a woman stay in abuse. If she is beat and mentally abused must be her fault,she should stay?

[phkrause]

EGW had to be the most liberal person in our Church.

New teachings

No sacred cows

Anti-slavery

Women Preaching

Vegetarianism

Fought for justice for writers

Told women in an abusive situation to get out and take your Children..

the list goes on and on and on...

I wouldn't say she was liberal Stan, I would say she was more of a radical.

[Kevin H]

Actually at AUC when I was there Mrs. White was pictured as quite liberal, and trying to keep things ballanced from like Kellogg and Ballenger on the one side, and those who's thoughts still make up the conservitive side of the church on the other.

When I was at Andrews, I spent hours in the White Estate Vault reading a lot of her letters and other works, and she wrote quite critically to the conservatives who loved to quote her in long passages telling them that they did not understand her writings. And of course while at Andrews Dr. Gerity sent us over the the White Estate to read the article she wrote that, while strongly supporting a litteral creation week and a fairly young world, down played the 6,000 years and just told us that what ever age we pick for the age of the earth just make sure it was fair to scripture.

[phkrause]

Actually at AUC when I was there Mrs. White was pictured as quite liberal, and trying to keep things ballanced from like Kellogg and Ballenger on the one side, and those who's thoughts still make up the conservitive side of the church on the other.

When I was at Andrews, I spent hours in the White Estate Vault reading a lot of her letters and other works, and she wrote quite critically to the conservatives who loved to quote her in long passages telling them that they did not understand her writings. And of course while at Andrews Dr. Gerity sent us over the the White Estate to read the article she wrote that, while strongly supporting a litteral creation week and a fairly young world, down played the 6,000 years and just told us that what ever age we pick for the age of the earth just make sure it was fair to scripture.

Some interesting thoughts Kevin.

by the way Kevin, where in NY are you from? Does the "H" in your name stand for Hallock? And if yes are you related to Nelson Hallock? You can pm me if you prefer.

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes, she frequently spoke in favor of being liberal (progressive and generous) and critically of being conservative (narrow, traditional or orthodox).

[John317]

It depends on what one means by "liberal." Most people today use the term to mean something that Ellen White wouldn't have recognized. She usually meant it as a synonym for "generosity" and "giving." "Conservative," on other hand, meant "selfish" and a willingness to compromise for the sake of popularity and financial gain.

First, below are examples of her use of "liberal":

The people in Michigan are the most liberal-hearted people in the world:

This matter was presented before me in 1888, and I was bearing a message to the Michigan Conference something of the very import I am bearing to you now; but I never act upon these things immediately unless the Spirit of God urges me, and now I feel urged by the Spirit of God to say that there is not a more liberal-hearted people in the world than in Michigan. They do not want anybody to help them out, but are selfish, covetous, and withholding from the cause and work of God. {1SAT 165.2}

She said that many who are styled "liberal" are wicked & corrupt in the eyes of God:

Many whom the world styles liberal, generous-hearted, noble men, are in the sight of God wicked and corrupt. For God sees not as man sees; his thoughts are not as our thoughts. Men in their self-complacency attempt to gloss over the defects in their lives and characters, and flatter themselves that all is well. But the light of truth would reveal their danger, and strike a death-blow to their self-satisfaction. Then they would see the importance of a holy life, and their own need of Christ as a Saviour. {ST, March 25, 1886 par. 9}

Ellen White said that the adoption of "liberal ideas" was making it easier for Protestantism to clasp the hand of Catholicism:

And this is the religion which Protestants are beginning to look upon with so much favor, and which will eventually be united with Protestantism. This union will not, however, be effected by a change in Catholicism; for Rome never changes. She claims infallibility. It is Protestantism that will change. The adoption of liberal ideas on its part will bring it where it can clasp the hand of Catholicism. .... Yes, the Protestants of the nineteenth century are fast approaching the Catholics in their infidelity concerning the Scriptures. {RH, June 1, 1886 par. 13}

Genuine love of God will make a man "liberal":

Genuine love to God will open the heart, and make a man liberal and charitable. He will know what it means to hunger and thirst after righteousness, and will continually desire that the power and grace of Christ shall be expressed in his life, that glory may redound to God. Every opportunity to do good to those for whom Christ died will be sought out and improved. The love of God will transform the character, and fashion it after the lovely character of Christ. The apostle says, "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." {ST, February 24, 1890 par. 1}

Some people are "too liberal":

The father was very liberal, too much so in some things, but he did not seem to realize that he must be governed by principle. {1888 1208.2}

This indulgence and mismanagement led to sad results. For a time the father tried to maintain correct discipline, but the mother counteracted his work by acting contrary to his expressed requirements. Her children were indulged, with the excuse that their father was too strict, too particular, and they were charged that he must know nothing about it. Thus the children were educated to deceive, in order that discipline might be prevented. {1888 1209.1}

Her idea of a "liberal education" would today be considered a conservative education. {GC 80.2} {HS 201.1}

She taught that SDAs shouldn't cook on the Sabbath, and said that our meals shouldn't be more liberal on the Sabbath than on other days of the week. {CG 532.2}

Continued

[John317]

Continued:

Ellen White use of "liberal":

"Liberal" meant being self-sacrificing and self-denying. {CET 222.1}

"Liberal" was not always a positive thing in Ellen White's view:

Christ gave to man a perfect example, but those who move out on what they call a liberal plan, and become careless in the little matters, will soon show a wide deviation from Christ's example, the only true pattern. Young men and women, will you study more closely and prayerfully the life of Christ, and make that life your criterion, your standard? {TMK 325.5}

Being "liberal-minded" was not necessarily a good thing:

In the matter of cooking, if the meals are taken at the dining-tent, no preparation of food will be necessary. When families board themselves, far too much cooking is often done. Some have never attended a camp-meeting, and do not know what preparations are required. Others are liberal-minded, and want everything done on a bountiful scale. The food which they provide includes rich pies and cakes, with other articles that cannot be eaten without positive injury. {GosHealth, April 1, 1898 par. 6}

A "liberal man" was caught stealing milk and was then mistreated:

In helping himself to some of the school milk, Elder Rogers did not consider himself a thief. He is a liberal man. There is little of selfishness in his nature. He was standing in a position of authority, and he supposed that he could favor himself and afterward return more than he had appropriated. In this he acted unwisely, but his well-known devotion to the interests of the school should have secured for him different treatment from that which he received. {PCO 110.6}

111

Angels beheld the scene that took place when these men found Elder Rogers helping himself to milk and treated a brother as they would a prowling wolf. Were they without sin? Did they stand guiltless before God? No, no! The test of true religion is doing the will of God. {PCO 111.1}

Being "liberal" meant bringing the truth before the world:

We hope our brethren will be more liberal, and feel that the truth of heavenly origin should be brought before the world. Would that all our ministers were so closely connected with God that they would be awake to the wants of the cause, and could realize what might be done for the world through earnest effort. {RH, November 7, 1878 par. 3}

She considered economizing to be an essential part of being liberal:

Economy is needed in every department of the Lord's work. The natural turn of youth in this age is to neglect and despise economy, and to confound it with narrowness and stinginess. But economy is consistent with the most broad and liberal views and feelings. Where it is not practised, there can be no true liberality. No one should think it beneath him to study the best means of saving the fragments. After Christ had performed a notable miracle, He said, “Gather up the fragments that remain, that nothing be lost.” John 6:12. {MC 57.2}

Quite a sum may be expended in hotel bills that are not all necessary. The cause of God lay so near the hearts of the pioneers in this message that they seldom took a meal at a hotel, even though the cost was but twenty-five cents each. But young men and young women generally are not educated to economize; and everywhere waste follows waste. In some families there is a wicked waste of material which, if reasonable economy were exercised, would be sufficient to support another family. {MC 57, 58}

Those churches who are the most systematic and liberal in sustaining the cause of God are the most prosperous spiritually. True liberality in the follower of Christ identifies his interest with that of his Master. {CCh 279.2}

All our blessings come from His bountiful hand. In turn, He would have men and women show their gratitude by returning Him a portion in tithes and offerings--in thank offerings, in freewill offerings, in trespass offerings. Should means flow into the treasury in accordance with this divinely appointed plan,--a tenth of all the increase, and liberal offerings,--there would be an abundance for the advancement of the Lord's work. {AA 75.1}

"There is that scattereth, and yet increaseth; and there is that withholdeth more than is meet, but it tendeth to poverty. The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself." Proverbs 11:24,25. {CS 13.2}

"The liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand." Isaiah 32:8. {CS 13.3}

Divine wisdom has appointed, in the plan of salvation, the law of action and reaction, making the work of beneficence, in all its branches, twice blessed. He who gives to the needy blesses others, and is blessed himself in a still greater degree. {CS 13.4}

Continued

[John317]

Continued

Ellen White's use of "Liberal":

Chap. 32 - A Liberal Church

In his first letter to the church at Corinth, Paul gave the believers instruction regarding the general principles underlying the support of God's work in the earth. ....

...The spirit of liberality is the spirit of heaven. This spirit finds its highest manifestation in Christ's sacrifice on the cross. In our behalf the Father gave His only-begotten Son; and Christ, having given up all that He had, then gave Himself, that man might be saved. The cross of Calvary should appeal to the benevolence of every follower of the Saviour. The principle there illustrated is to give, give. "He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked." 1 John 2:6. {AA 339.2}

On the other hand, the spirit of selfishness is the spirit of Satan. The principle illustrated in the lives of worldlings is to get, get. Thus they hope to secure happiness and ease, but the fruit of their sowing is misery and death. {AA 339.3}

A solemn responsibility rests upon ministers to keep before the churches the needs of the cause of God and to educate them to be liberal. When this is neglected, and the churches fail to give for the necessities of others, not only does the work of the Lord suffer, but the blessing that should come to believers is withheld. {AA 341.2}

And further provision was made for the poor. There is nothing, after their recognition of the claims of God, that more distinguishes the laws given by Moses than the liberal, tender, and hospitable spirit enjoined toward the poor. Although God had promised greatly to bless His people, it was not His design that poverty should be wholly unknown among them. He declared that the poor should never cease out of the land. There would ever be those among His people who would call into exercise

531

their sympathy, tenderness, and benevolence. Then, as now, persons were subject to misfortune, sickness, and loss of property; yet so long as they followed the instruction given by God, there were no beggars among them, neither any who suffered for food. {PP 530.3}

By the cry, Liberality, men are blinded to the devices of their adversary, while he is all the time working steadily for the accomplishment of his object. As he succeeds in supplanting the Bible by human speculations, the law of God is set aside, and the churches are under the bondage of sin while they claim to be free. {GC 522.1}

Continued

[John317]

Continued

Ellen White's use of "conservative":

When God raises up men to do His work, they are false to their trust if they allow their testimony to be shaped to please the minds of the unconsecrated. He will prepare men for the times. They will be humble, God-fearing men, not conservative, not policy men; but men who have moral independence and will move forward in the fear of the Lord. They will be kind, noble, courteous, yet they will not be swayed from the right path, but will proclaim the truth in righteousness whether men will hear or whether they will forbear.--Testimonies, Vol. 5, pp. 262-263. {ChL 73.3}

The English reformers, while renouncing the doctrines of Romanism, had retained many of its forms. Thus though the authority and the creed of Rome were rejected, not a few of her customs and ceremonies were incorporated into the worship of the Church of England. It was claimed that these things were not matters of conscience; that though they were not commanded in Scripture, and hence were non-essential, yet not being forbidden, they were not intrinsically evil. Their observance tended to narrow the gulf which separated the reformed churches from Rome, and it was urged that they would promote the acceptance of the Protestant faith by Romanists. {GC88 289.1}

To the conservative and compromising, these arguments seemed conclusive. But there was another class that did not so judge. The fact that these customs tended to bridge the chasm between Rome and the Reformation, was in their view a conclusive argument against retaining them. They looked upon them as badges of the slavery from which they had been delivered, and to which they had no disposition to return. They reasoned that God has in his Word established the regulations governing his worship, and that men are not at liberty to add to these or to detract from them. The very beginning of the great apostasy was in seeking to supplement the authority of God by that of the church. Rome began by enjoining what God had not forbidden, and she ended by forbidding what he had explicitly enjoined. {GC88 289.2}

The work which the church has failed to do in a time of peace and prosperity she will have to do in a terrible crisis under most discouraging, forbidding circumstances. The warnings that worldly conformity has silenced or withheld must be given under the fiercest opposition from enemies of the faith. And at that time the superficial, conservative [ELLEN WHITE IS NOT HERE DISTINGUISHING THEOLOGICAL CONSERVATIVES FROM THEIR LIBERAL COUNTERPARTS; SHE IS DESCRIBING THOSE WHO PUT "WORLDLY CONFORMITY" FIRST AND GOD'S CAUSE SECOND.] class, whose influence has steadily retarded the progress of the work, will renounce the faith.--5T 463 (1885). {LDE 174.3}

Presidents may become too conservative and narrow in their leadership.--Elder M, as president of the _____ Conference, you have shown by your general management that you are unworthy of the trust reposed in you. You have shown that you are conservative, and that your ideas are narrow. You have not done one half what you might have done had you had the true spirit of the work. You might have been far more capable and experienced than you now are; you might have been far better prepared to manage successfully this sacred and important mission a work which would have given you the strongest claim to the general confidence of our people....--5T 370. {PaM 106.1}

Some thought that Ellen White was not conservative enough:

I saw you listening to the conversation of men and women, and saw that you were only too pleased to gather up their views and impressions that were detrimental to our labors. Some found fault with one thing, and some with another, as did the murmurers among the children of Israel when Moses was their leader. Some were censuring our course, saying that we were not as conservative as we ought to be; we did not seek to please the people as we might; we talked too plainly; we reproved too sharply. Some were talking in regard to Sister White's dress, picking at straws. Others were expressing dissatisfaction with the course that Brother White pursued, and remarks were passing from one to another, questioning their course and finding fault. An angel stood before these persons, unseen by them, busily writing their words in the book which is to be opened to the view of God and angels. {3T 312.3}

Continued

[John317]

Continued

Ellen White's use of "conservative":

Conservatives seek to avoid discussion:

Whenever the people of God are growing in grace, they will be constantly obtaining a clearer understanding of His word. They will discern new light and beauty in its sacred truths. This has been true in the history of the church in all ages, and thus it will continue to the end. But as real spiritual life declines, it has ever been the tendency to cease to advance in the knowledge of the truth. Men rest satisfied with the light already received from God's word and discourage any further

707

investigation of the Scriptures. They become conservative and seek to avoid discussion. {5T 706.2}

The fact that there is no controversy or agitation among God's people should not be regarded as conclusive evidence that they are holding fast to sound doctrine. There is reason to fear that they may not be clearly discriminating between truth and error. When no new questions are started by investigation of the Scriptures, when no difference of opinion arises which will set men to searching the Bible for themselves to make sure that they have the truth, there will be many now, as in ancient times, who will hold to tradition and worship they know not what. {5T 707.1}

Conservative traditions not safe guides:

Conservative traditions received from educated men, and from the writings of great men of the past, are not safe guides for us in these last days; for the great struggle before us is such as the world has never seen before. Those who have not acted a part in this work in the past, need to move with great caution in regard to accepting or refusing what may be presented to them as truth. They need to penetrate much deeper than their limited spiritual knowledge, or their present habits or opinions would lead them to do. We are not one of us safe unless we live as seeing Him who is invisible, even with past experience in the work; and we certainly are not safe, if we have not had that experience. Daily, hourly, we must be actuated by the principles of Bible truth,--righteousness, mercy, and the love of God. He who would have moral and intellectual power must draw from the divine source. At every point of decision inquire, "Is this the way of the Lord?" With your Bibles open before you, consult sanctified reason and a good conscience. Your heart must be moved, your soul touched, your reason and intellect awakened, by the Spirit of God; and then holy principles revealed in the word of God will give light to the soul. The true source of wisdom and virtue and power is the cross of Calvary. Christ is the author and finisher of our faith. He says, "Without me ye can do nothing." {RH, February 7, 1893 par. 13}

The true Christian will not become conservative:

It is the design of God that through man his glory shall be revealed to the world; but it is only those who connect themselves with God in Jesus Christ, who can reveal that goodness and that fidelity which Christ manifested in his life. As the branches of the vine are united in the parent stock, so will the children of God be united as one in Christ. They are to reveal to the world the character of God. They must study the Scriptures with the purpose in view of living the unselfish life of Christ. The true Christian will not become self-centered or conservative in his plans. "Of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace." As God's grace is given us freely, so it must be imparted to others. Through the apostle we are admonished, "As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him." {RH, May 30, 1899 par. 13}

Most institutions are conservative (i.e., not generous and giving):

The Health Institute has been established . . . to relieve the afflicted, to disseminate light, to awaken the spirit of inquiry, and to advance reform. This institution is conducted upon principles which are different from those of any other hygienic institution in the land. Money is not the great object with its friends and conductors. They conduct it from a conscientious, religious standpoint, aiming to carry out the principles of Bible hygiene. Most institutions of the kind are established upon different principles, and are conservative, making it their object to meet the popular class halfway, and so to shape their course that they will receive the greatest patronage and the most money. . . . {RH, May 21, 1914 par. 1}

Those temptations are most dangerous which come from the professed servants of God, and from our friends. When persons who are uniting with the world, yet claiming great piety and love, counsel the faithful workers for God to be less zealous and more conservative, our answer must be an appeal to the word of God. When they plead for union with those who have been our determined opposers, we should fear and shun them as decidedly as did Nehemiah. Those who would lead away from the old landmarks to form a connection with the ungodly, cannot be sent of Heaven. Whatever may have been their former position, their present course tends to unsettle the faith of God's people. {ST, January 3, 1884 par. 14}

Such counselors are prompted by Satan. They are time-servers. The testimonies, reproofs, and warnings of God's servants are unpalatable to them, being a reproof to their worldly, pleasure-loving propensities. We should shun this class as resolutely as did Nehemiah. {ST, January 3, 1884 par. 15}

Having conservative (i.e, selfish, self-centered) views about the mission and work of Christ is wrong:

The disciples themselves could scarcely comprehend the fact that the blessings of God were for the Gentiles as well as for the Jews, and had to unlearn many lessons that made them conservative in their views concerning the mission and work of the Messiah. But evidences were given them that prepared them to understand that the tidings of the kingdom of Christ were to be preached to all nations. Now that their sympathies were broadening, and their ideas expanding in regard to the purpose of God, Christ desired them to act out their faith before he should be removed from them, that there might be no misunderstanding in regard to the extension of the gospel. {ST, December 10, 1894 par. 1}

Completed

[John317]

Yes, she frequently spoke in favor of being liberal (progressive and generous) and critically of being conservative (narrow, traditional or orthodox).

Being "progressive" is not necessarily being generous. Nor is being "conservative" the same as being traditional and orthodox. There are liberal traditions and conservative traditions. Ellen White was certainly favorable toward keeping the foundational pillars of our faith, which many would probably consider "orthodox."

You may be looking at it from a political, modern viewpoint, rather than from the viewpoint of Ellen White.

Check out the EGW quotes I just posted. I think you'll find them very interesting.

[Bravus]

We're applying a distinction and set of terms and notions that are very recent - fully formed perhaps only in the past couple of decades - to someone who lived and wrote 15 decades ago. As John317's helpful compilations show, those terms were used quite differently in the past, so trying to use the terms to decide the question doesn't really work. We need to look at the values and at positions on the issues.

Tony Campolo's book 'Is Jesus a Republican or a Democrat?' does a decent job of this kind of thing.

[teresaq]

Yes, she frequently spoke in favor of being liberal (progressive and generous) and critically of being conservative (narrow, traditional or orthodox).

[aldona]

Originally Posted By: Stan Jensen

EGW had to be the most liberal person in our Church.

New teachings

No sacred cows

Anti-slavery

Women Preaching

Vegetarianism

Fought for justice for writers

Told women in an abusive situation to get out and take your Children..

the list goes on and on and on...

I would call that "Christian", not "liberal"...

The conservatives of her day, and not a few of those of our day, would be opposed to many items on that list. (I'm talking of conservative Christians in general, not just Adventists, as the first Adventists would mostly have been converts from other denominations and our own was only just taking shape.)

AJ

[John317]

If anyone's intererested in the definition of "liberal," etc., in the 1828 Webster's Dictionary:

LIBERAL, a. [L. liberalis, from liber, free. See Libel.]

1. Of a free heart; free to give or bestow; not close or contracted; munificent; bountiful; generous; giving largely; as a liberal donor; the liberal founders of a college or hospital. It expresses less than profuse or extravagant.

2. Generous; ample; large; as a liberal donation; a liberal allowance.

3. Not selfish, narrow on contracted; catholic; enlarged; embracing other interests than one's own; as liberal sentiments or views; a liberal mind; liberal policy.

4. General; extensive; embracing literature and the sciences generally; as a liberal education. This phrase is often but not necessarily synonymous with collegiate; as a collegiate education.

5. Free; open; candid; as a liberal communication of thoughts.

6. Large; profuse; as a liberal discharge of matter by secretions or excretions.

7. Free; not literal or strict; as a liberal construction of law.

8. Not mean; not low in birth or mind.

9. Licentious; free to excess.

Liberal arts, as distinguished from mechanical arts, are such as depend more on the exertion of the mind than on the labor of the hands, and regard amusement, curiosity or intellectual improvement, rather than the necessity of subsistence, or manual skill. Such are grammar, rhetoric, painting, sculpture, architecture, music. etc.

Liberal has of before the thing bestowed, and to before the person or object on which any thing is bestowed; as, to be liberal of praise or censure; liberal to the poor.

LIBERALITY, n. [L. liberalitas. See Liberal.]

1. Munificence; bounty.

That liberality is but cast away, which makes us borrow what we cannot pay.

2. A particular act of generosity; a donation; a gratuity. In this sense, it has the plural number. A prudent man is not impoverished by his liberalities.

3. Largeness of mind; catholicism; that comprehensiveness of mind which includes other interests beside its own, and duly estimates in its decisions the value or importance of each. It is evidence of a noble mind to judge of men and things with liberality.

Many treat the gospel with indifference under the name of liberality.

4. Candor; impartiality.

LIBERALIZE, v.t. To render liberal or catholic; to enlarge; to free from narrow views or prejudices; as, to liberalize the mind.

LIBERALIZED, pp. Freed from narrow views and prejudices; made liberal.

LIBERALIZING, ppr. Rendering liberal; divesting of narrow views and prejudices.

LIBERALLY, adv.

1. Bountifully; freely; largely; with munificence.

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, who giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not. James 1:5.

2. With generous and impartial regard to other interests than our own; with enlarged views; without selfishness or meanness; as, to think or judge liberally of men and their actions.

3. Freely; not strictly; not literally.

[John317]

Interestingly, the word "conservative" was not even listed in the 1828 Webster's Dictionary, except for the following:

CONSERVATIVE, a. Preservative; having power to preserve in a safe or entire state, or from loss, waste or injury.

CONSERVATOR, n.

1. A preserver; one who preserves from injury or violation. Appropriately, an officer who has the charge of preserving the public peace, as judges and sheriffs; also, an officer who has the charge of preserving the rights and privileges of a city, corporation or community, as in catholic universities. It is a word of extensive application.

2. In Connecticut, a person appointed to superintend idiots, lunatics, etc., manage their property, and preserve it from waste.

CONSERVATORY, a. Having the quality of preserving from loss, decay or injury.

CONSERVATORY, n.

1. A place for preserving any thing in a state desired, as from loss, decay, waste or injury. Thus a fish-pond for keeping fish, a granary for corn, an ice-house for ice and other things, a receptacle for water, etc., are called conservatories.

2. A large green-house for exotics, in which the plants are planted in beds and borders, and not in tubs or pots, as in the common green-house.

CONSERVE, v.t. [L., to hold, keep or guard.] To keep in a safe or sound state; to save; to preserve from loss, decay, waste, or injury; to defend from violation; as, to conserve bodies from perishing; to conserve the peace of society; to conserve fruits, roots and herbs, with sugar, etc.

CONSERVE, n.

1. A sweetmeat made of the inspissated juice of fruit, boiled with sugar.

2. In pharmacy, a form of medicine contrived to preserve the flowers, herbs, roots or fruits of simples, as nearly as possible, in their natural fresh state. Fresh vegetables and sugar of the consistence of honey.

3. A conservatory. [Not usual.]

CONSERVED, pp. Preserved in a safe and sound state; guarded; kept; maintained; protected; prepared with sugar.

CONSERVER, n. One who conserves; one who keeps from loss or injury; one who lays up for preservation; a preparer of conserves.

CONSERVING, ppr. Keeping in safety; defending; maintaining; preparing with sugar.

[John317]

In general, I think what we can say about Ellen White is that she was liberal and generous and open-hearted towards people, just as Christ was; but when it comes to morality and Bible doctrines, she was what most people would call "conservative." In other words, while she encouraged us to be open-minded to new truths if they are supported by a clear "thus saith the Lord," yet she believed we should be willing to die for the biblical truths upon which the SDA Church was founded. She said not a peg of those pillars of our faith should be moved. From her viewpoint, we should be willing to die rather than sin against God.

Isn't that what most people would call "conservative"?

[BobRyan]

Indeed - the "benefit" that is suppoed to be "owned" by the liberal "big left" is that they are tolerant and would not wish to ban anone for having an opinion that differs.

Ellen White affirmed a number of the liberal traits that are strengths - but she also condemned those liberal attributes that are the standard strong negatives for the group as well.

By today's standards Ellen White would not even make honorable mention in the big-left-tent except to be put down. If you don't believe me - go over there at take a look.

in Christ,

Bob

[BobRyan]

EGW had to be the most liberal person in our Church.

New teachings

No sacred cows

Anti-slavery

Women Preaching

Vegetarianism

Fought for justice for writers

Told women in an abusive situation to get out and take your Children..

the list goes on and on and on...

[Gerr]

Yeah, she was very liberal.

She was also very conservative!

[BobRyan]

On the subject of the value of human life -- Ellen white was very conservative - demanding freedom for slaves.

Today we have the issue of abortion.

In the subject of "right to privacy and choice for consenting adults" vs the moral law of Christian values - Ellen White was very conservative - demanding that laws be passed prohibiting the right to sell alcohol.

Today we have the issue of gay marriage.

in Christ,

Bob

[teresaq]

"She was both in just the way I see it according to my picture, and only I am right and no one else has the right to see it any differently or by___, well you have seen how I can twist and turn anything you do say!! Just wait til that Sunday law is enforced, I'll really have power then! So there!" lol

Ok, now that I've continued to make enemies and not influence people. :)

[olger]

According to Walter Martin, EGW was an unusual consecrated lady, and there were many consecrated men too. Consecrated is the word I would use, not "liberal."

Do you consider yourself liberal, Stan?

`oG