SDA Church in Germany

[Gerr]

The SDA Church split over cooperation with Hitler in WWII - the leadership by and large advocating cooperation and many members resisting. I just recently read that the same happened in WWI. What happened after WWII? Was there a reconciliation? What is the stand of the current German SDA leaders toward the German state and toward GC policies?

[BobRyan]

And did the GC ever admit wrong doing? (I think they did).

And where was M.L Andreason in that fiasco? Did that happen on his watch or was that Heppenstal?

in Christ,

Bob

[Gerr]

Any of you out there know the story of the church in Germany? Any posters from Germany? Or is this something too shameful and painful to discuss and best swept under the carpet?

[BobRyan]

There is an entire organization that still exists -- called the "Reformed Adventists".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Day_Adventist_Reform_Movement

However as we see in the case of the SECC and LSU - the GC does not have the ability to dictate to its unions or conferences. Local church politics in a conference can stray significantly from the denomination's official stand.

Here is an article about a group opposing the Reformed Adventists of Germany -- this group was called simply "the German Adventists"

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/projects/holocaust/Research/Proseminar/corrieschroder.htm

Thus you have 3 parties.

The GC in the US.

The German Adventists.

The Reformed Adventists in Germany.

Clearly the GC did not do enough to support the Reformed Adventists and was very late in condemning the actions of the German Adventists.

in Christ,

Bob

[phkrause]

Interesting stuff Bob. Thanks for the websites.

[Gerr]

Thanks, Bob.

[Gerr]

So which group has control of Friedensau Adventist Seminary? Do the German Adventists still subordinate the church to the state even when the state's policies are contrary to church beliefs?

Are the members of both groups counted in the census for SDA world membership?

[Overaged]

The SDA Church split over cooperation with Hitler in WWII - the leadership by and large advocating cooperation and many members resisting. I just recently read that the same happened in WWI. What happened after WWII? Was there a reconciliation? What is the stand of the current German SDA leaders toward the German state and toward GC policies?

I have seen a lot of so-called "proof" about this matter - none of which would hold water.

[Overaged]

And did the GC ever admit wrong doing? (I think they did).

And where was M.L Andreason in that fiasco? Did that happen on his watch or was that Heppenstal?

in Christ,

Bob

I'd like to see where they did this

[Gerr]

I have seen a lot of so-called "proof" about this matter - none of which would hold water.

"Proof" of what? Are you saying German SDA cooperation with Hitler did not happen?

[Overaged]

Originally Posted By: Overaged

I have seen a lot of so-called "proof" about this matter - none of which would hold water.

"Proof" of what? Are you saying German SDA cooperation with Hitler did not happen?

Yes I am

[John317]

I'd like to see where they did this

Andreasen and Froom didn't have anything to do with what happened in Germany in either WWI or WWII, but it is sadly true that the German SDA church as a whole didn't do too well in Germany during those wars. Many SDAs in WWII broke under pressure and supported Hitler. It's a very sad story. Yet there were also quite a few SDAs who refused to support Hilter, and some paid with their lives or with their freedom. We shouldn't forget, too, that some SDAs in Europe helped to save Jews from the concentration camp.

A good number of SDAs were either imprisoned or executed in WWI for refusing to serve in the military. Some who were imprisoned in WW I were afterwards disfellowshipped for having disobeyed the leadership, who had told them to cooperate with the military.

[Gerr]

The facts/truth that you uncover in your OWN research will be more believable to you.

[Overaged]

The facts/truth that you uncover in your OWN research will be more believable to you.

Actually I have looked into this and all I see are claims and venom. No evidence yet. There seems to be no end to the things people keep coming up with and when challenged to produce genuine evidence; they either can't or wont. Which is it with you?

[Pockey]

http://www.history.ucsb.edu/projects/holocaust/Research/Proseminar/corrieschroder.htm

Interesting article. I think the author appears to have bias though in the conclusion where she says "Keeping the Sabbath day holy is one of the beliefs that make the Adventists different. This is one of the fundamental principle [sic] of the Seventh-day Adventists and when times got tough, they willing sacrifice this principle."

Regardless, don't know if it's true or not but definitely seems feasible and likely to happen again at the end times. Some will go along with the government to save themselves, those that put all of their faith in God won't.

[John317]

What is it about the SDA church in Germany that you are disputing or doubting?

Are you unsure whether many SDAs supported the Kaiser's German government during WWI and Hitler's government during WWII?

I think those things should teach us valuable lessons so that we won't do the same thing when we ourselves might have to undego the same tests at the end. We're not really any different or superior to our fellow SDAs in Germany during those years. They didn't have the freedom that we have in this country. One day soon we will lose our freedom and be forced to obey laws in this country that contradict God's law. At that point, what will we do?

The only reason we wouldn't do what our fellow-SDAs in Germany did during the two wars is if we have the Holy Spirit in our lives. If we don't, we won't be able to withstand the pressure of facing the possibility of a painful death if we choose to disobey the government decree.

[BobRyan]

I agree that the terrible events in Germany in WWI and WWII when it comes to the SDA church - are a warning to us all of what is to come!

[Overaged]

I agree that the terrible events in Germany in WWI and WWII when it comes to the SDA church - are a warning to us all of what is to come!

I think, for now; I would add that what you are referring to was a wide-spread occurence, not limited to a church, or churches. My wife's own family history, as in thousands of other cases, bear out well the fact of how "loved ones" and "brethren" betrayed one another, and will do it again; if similar circumstances arise. But to make this out as a case where a church, on an official basis, sided with Hitler; hmmm, that would take a lot more detail to prove than what has been provided here.