I had a guy tell me today...

[olger]

that unconditional love is not Biblical.

"What is often described as the "unconditional" love of Jesus is actually conditioned upon his bearing the just wrath due for sin before love can be shown. Just because we experience the love of Jesus as "unconditional" does not make it that in reality."

‎"For God so loved the world... THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY SON..." If love is unconditional, there was no reason whatsoever for God to give his Son."

What do you all think?

g

[phkrause]

I'd say that the Bible does show that God's love is unconditional. And like you indicated, his death for all proves it.

[Musicman1228]

I'd say that the Bible does show that God's love is unconditional. And like you indicated, his death for all proves it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I hear you saying is that once you accept the unconditional love of Jesus as your personal savior (and all that entails) you are saved and cannot be lost under any condition; which is the meaning of unconditional?

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

I'd say that the Bible does show that God's love is unconditional. And like you indicated, his death for all proves it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I hear you saying is that once you accept the unconditional love of Jesus as your personal savior (and all that entails) you are saved and cannot be lost under any condition; which is the meaning of unconditional?

Not at all MM, I said that Jesus died for all, that's all. You want to read more into it go ahead. That's you problem.

[olger]

The paragraphs in italics were quoted by the aforementioned individual, not me.

Regards,

G

[miz3]

that unconditional love is not Biblical.

"What is often described as the "unconditional" love of Jesus is actually conditioned upon his bearing the just wrath due for sin before love can be shown. Just because we experience the love of Jesus as "unconditional" does not make it that in reality."

‎"For God so loved the world... THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY SON..." If love is unconditional, there was no reason whatsoever for God to give his Son."

What do you all think?

g

Depends on who has to meet the conditions.

[olger]

Mark Gungor made a statement that the Bible is one big condition! "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that WHOSOEVER BELIEVES on Him might not perish, but have everlasting life."

His analogy was to say that marriage is not unconditional love, there are some things that are not acceptable in marriage and should be changed/ resolved. He was not advocating divorce.

But back to the question,

G

[John317]

Correct me if I'm wrong,

Consider yourself corrected. :-)

Quote:

but what I hear you saying is that once you accept the unconditional love of Jesus as your personal savior (and all that entails) you are saved and cannot be lost under any condition; which is the meaning of unconditional?

You aren't hearing right. :-)

But seriously, MM, God's love is unconditional. That is not to say that salvation is unconditional. Salvation certainly does have conditions.

Notice that the Bible never puts conditions on God's love. God IS love. Love isn't something God does. Love is the very essence of God's very character.

Even God's destruction of the wicked at the end of the world happens as a result of God's unconditional love.

[olger]

True John, we sometimes confuse unconditional love with unconditional salvation.

For instance, certain individual have a practical theology that will not allow for spiritual growth. Indeed, they just might see it as a bad thing. Having been saved by grace, these people have become paralyzed by it. To attempt any progress in the spiritual life smacks of "works righteousness" to them. Their voices tell them they sin in word, thought, and deed daily, so they conclude that this is their fate until they die. Heaven is their only release from this world of sin and rebellion. Thus these well-meaning folk drive their stakes around them year after year without realizing any movement forward in their life with God.

`oG

[John317]

Yes, we've seen that happen. I know of people who think that any talk of God's law or commandments is legalism and that if anyone mentions being "worthy of the gospel," it means they're trying to earn their way to heaven. They don't seem to realize that such an attitude is clean contrary to the teachings of Christ and of the apostle Paul.

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: pkrause

I'd say that the Bible does show that God's love is unconditional. And like you indicated, his death for all proves it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I hear you saying is that once you accept the unconditional love of Jesus as your personal savior (and all that entails) you are saved and cannot be lost under any condition; which is the meaning of unconditional?

You made a huge jump when you saw the word "unconditional", to a place where nobody else had gone. I think you do the same thing when you read the Bible. You make huge assumptions when you see certain key words, and jump to wrong conclusions. Conlusions nobody else would reach, unless they used your same assumptions. Which are not biblical.

When you discard positions that were reached by others, letting the Bible interpret itself, and replace it with your own line of thinking. (my observation from day one) It will always end up being wrong, simply because that is not the proper way to study the Bible.

To sum it up: God still loves Lucifer, but He is still going to fry him like a fritter when the time comes.

Now that is unconditional love, when you do what's best for somebody, even though you may not really want to.

[miz3]

You made a huge jump when you saw the word "unconditional", to a place where nobody else had gone. I think you do the same thing when you read the Bible. You make huge assumptions when you see certain key words, and jump to wrong conclusions. Conlusions nobody else would reach, unless they used your same assumptions. Which are not biblical.

When you discard positions that were reached by others, letting the Bible interpret itself, and replace it with your own line of thinking. (my observation from day one) It will always end up being wrong, simply because that is not the proper way to study the Bible.

To sum it up: God still loves Lucifer, but He is still going to fry him like a fritter when the time comes.

Now that is unconditional love, when you do what's best for somebody, even though you may not really want to.

Where does the Bible say specifically that God "loves" Lucifer. Nothing general, I want a specific text that states that God still loves Lucifer.

[Kevin H]

that unconditional love is not Biblical.

"What is often described as the "unconditional" love of Jesus is actually conditioned upon his bearing the just wrath due for sin before love can be shown. Just because we experience the love of Jesus as "unconditional" does not make it that in reality."

‎"For God so loved the world... THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY SON..." If love is unconditional, there was no reason whatsoever for God to give his Son."

What do you all think?

g

How incredably leagalistic and extreamly forensic, I think Graham Maxwell is spinning in his grave.

God loves us because God loves us, and the sin problem is deadly and therefore God died for us because he loves us too much to expirence the natural reasults of sin. Jesus' death is for us sinners, and the unfallen angels and unfallen worlds. Jesus loves us because he made us work loving and God really happens to love us, whether Jesus died for us or not.

[John317]

Where does the Bible say specifically that God "loves" Lucifer. Nothing general, I want a specific text that states that God still loves Lucifer.

You shouldn't need a text that says those very words in order to know that God does still loves Lucifer. God did not create a being he doesn't love. God IS love. The ultimate destruction of Satan and sin will be the direct result of God's agape/love.

God hates sin and wickedenss, but God loves sinners and those who do wickedness. If He didn't, you and I and all other humans wouldn't have a chance.

[John317]

True, Kevin. Of course, olger is quoting what some guy told him. Obviously short-sighted and a superficial understanding of God's love.

[olger]

Forsooth,

G

[Kevin H]

Have you ever seen a couple of children, one a little older than tag along kid brother or kid sister, and the older child is trying to hang out with his friends without the tag along and trys all sorts of things to get the tag along to go home. And the tag along can sometimes play into this and might say something like "Give me a dollar and I'll go home" or "Do a Cartwheel and I'll go home" and the elder child gives into the demand just to get rid of the pesty tag along...

Jesus faced this situation. Jesus was told by pesty tag along Satan that he would be left alone if only he would jump off the temple. There are many lessons we can learn from the temptations, and this is one of them. Jesus was not going to do something flippant just to get rid of this pesky tag along. One of the lessons in Jesus refusing to jump was that he was saying to Satan "Lucifer, I still love you. I'm not going to dismiss you with a foolish act like this, you deserve better. I made you to be Lucifer, not Satan, why don't you give up this foolishness and come home."

Of course we see in the other temptation there is a place for tuff love and a point where Jesus had to command Satan to go, but these 2 temptations show us the two sides we can go to. We can either make less of a person or a situation, or make them greater than they deserve. In both temptations Jesus resisted both errors and was showing Lucifer true love, love that was just and ballanced.

Remember, what I understand that the fires of hell are simply the love and glory of God that is always drawing us to him, but also changing us to be our best. If someone does not want to change and has formed a character of pulling away from this drawing power, it can be very uncomfortable for him. What makes hell hell is that God continues to love.

[olger]

Satan is indeed a liar.

[olger]

So God doesn't destroy the tares, for the good of the universe?

[Parade Orange]

MIZ3 hello

i dont know u OR where u are coming from so im adressing the mindset that i see in your post not your spiritual walk or judgeing u

some guys here cringe that the guy sitting next to them in the pew is gay and maybe checking him out

others guys cringe thinking that the guy sitting next to them in the pew doesnt realize GOD loves satan cause it is GOD's NATURE

and needs a proof text cause 1ST JOHN 4:8 dont seem to address that?

gimmie a break!

u think GOD loves u cause u try ?????????????????

JESUS will not come soon enough i am sick of twisted pictures of GOD

ok done venting

BTW i could have gone on and on!

[Gerr]

Wrong. The giving was conditioned by the need, but the loving was NOT conditioned by the giving or need.

[olger]

This thread is not about homosexuality, nor is it intended to be. God can give each of us freedom from brokenness, wrong decisions, deviations, and cultivated tendencies (Romans 8:37; Philippians 4:13). Whether we allow Him to or not, is another matter.

rejoice always,

`oG

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

Where does the Bible say specifically that God "loves" Lucifer. Nothing general, I want a specific text that states that God still loves Lucifer.

You shouldn't need a text that says those very words in order to know that God does still loves Lucifer. God did not create a being he doesn't love. God IS love. The ultimate destruction of Satan and sin will be the direct result of God's agape/love.

God hates sin and wickedenss, but God loves sinners and those who do wickedness. If He didn't, you and I and all other humans wouldn't have a chance.

So you actually do not have a text that says "God loves Luciifer".

You make a statement that is not backed up by the Bible.

Here are some texts your not going to like because they say that God actually hates certain individuals.

1. "I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you."

Leviticus 26:17.

2. "But my love will never be taken away from him, as I took it away from Saul, whom I removed from before you. 16 Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever.’”

17 Nathan reported to David all the words of this entire revelation."

2Samuel 7:16-17.

God took his Love away from Saul. So much for God loving everybody. You see your logic does not work in understanding God. This is why most of your theology is warped.

3. "The LORD examines the righteous,

but the wicked and those who love violence

his soul hates."

Psalm 11:5.

There it is in very plain explicit black and white that God "hates". No ifs ands or buts.

4. "There are six things the LORD hates,

seven that are detestable to him:

17 haughty eyes,

a lying tongue,

hands that shed innocent blood,

18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,

feet that are quick to rush into evil,

19 a false witness who pours out lies

and a man who stirs up dissension among brothers."

Proverbs 6:16-19.

Once again, no love, but just pure out hate on the part of God for humans.

5. "Because of all their wickedness in Gilgal,

I hated them there.

Because of their sinful deeds,

I will drive them out of my house.

I will no longer love them;

all their leaders are rebellious."

Hosea 9:15.

Once again God says He "hates" and adds to that, that He will "no longer love". It is extremely plain.

6. "I have loved you,” says the LORD.

“But you ask, ‘How have you loved us?’

“Was not Esau Jacob’s brother?” the LORD says. “Yet I have loved Jacob, 3 but Esau I have hated, and I have turned his mountains into a wasteland and left his inheritance to the desert jackals."

Malachi 1:2-3.

God plainly states who He loves and who He hates!

7. "But you have this in your favor: You hate the practices of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate."

Revelation 2:6.

God hates the Nicolaitans. Very straight forward.

Since Satan fits all that God hates, God must also HATE SATAN!

I gave you very clear texts that say not is God Love but God is also Hate. He is both. Your one-sided view of God is not Biblical. This "one-sided" view warps your understanding of God and who and what He is. It also warps your understanding of the Scripture.

Just a reminder, I gave you very clear definitive texts and you gave me NO TEXTS!

[miz3]

MIZ3 hello

i dont know u OR where u are coming from so im adressing the mindset that i see in your post not your spiritual walk or judgeing u

some guys here cringe that the guy sitting next to them in the pew is gay and maybe checking him out

others guys cringe thinking that the guy sitting next to them in the pew doesnt realize GOD loves satan cause it is GOD's NATURE

and needs a proof text cause 1ST JOHN 4:8 dont seem to address that?

gimmie a break!

u think GOD loves u cause u try ?????????????????

JESUS will not come soon enough i am sick of twisted pictures of GOD

ok done venting

BTW i could have gone on and on!

I hope you read my answer with Biblical Proof to John317. You give no Biblical Proof but castigate me?