We Have The Angels Outnumbered

[Bravus]

A little silliness with excessive literalness.

Their number is given as 'ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands of thousands' (ignore for a moment that this is presumably an ancient person's best attempt at an uncountably large number).

10,000 x 10,000 = 100 million

We don't know exactly how many thousands are intended in the second phrase, but presumably after 9,000 you're back in the realm of 10,000s, so that's a plausible upper bound.

9,000 x 9,000 = 81 million

So there are a maximum of 181 million angels. And there are 7 billion human beings: so about 39 people per angel.

Guardian angels must be timeshared... unless they're timeless. Or maybe they look after their other 38 charges when one is in the movies...

[ClubV12]

Thanks for doing the math on that Bravus. I thought about it one day while driving and tried to do it in my head, which almost exploded... :)

[Parade Orange]

i know JOHN was overwhemled at the vision of the 2ND coming

who wouldnt be!

since we have a GOD that creates boundless universes!

one time the star observers were trying to count the stars now they realize those stars are actually galaxies!

and now the prospect of billions of galaxies each with millions if not billions of stars in each!

also when u look into minitures its never ceases to amaze me how small u can go!

but the bigger u go it never does end!

the new earth will not be covered with seas!

it will be mostly land with dots of great lakes like TAHOE and LAKE ONTERIO for sea life!

do u know how many billions of people can live here with mansions the size of small counties

?

many many billions

have u ever drove thru endless forests or deserts or endless grapevineyards or stretches of highway with nothing around and here our country it is said overcrowded

spread out the population and fill the earth!

here in CA we have foothills and the altamont and great canyons dipping endless sea of land with no or a few homes in between

we serve a great big GOD with endless resources and HE NEVER STOPS CREATING!

do u think GOD stopped at 81 million angels?

HE DOESNT STOP!

the creativity is endless

we have 8 billion peeps here with different fingerprints!

GOD's GLORY in all!

and how many lived before us?

how many died at the flood?

the earth is covered with people gone from us now

lets say 20 billion in all dead or alive

or 12 billion ... whatever!

GOD HAS IT COVERED!

GOD didnt created something HE couldnt handle!

HE DIDNT forget to line up the ducks in a row for sin!

i was telling my buddy there are BILLIONS OF ANGELS

that surpass humanity and the billions of people that will be saved will fill the hole left by satan and his billions!

im in AWE!

[ClubV12]

While were "doing the numbers" lets not stop there. The New Jerusalem is a specific size, we will each have a mansion there. How many mansions will fit in the city?

[Parade Orange]

i heard the CITY will be as big as ...

well here is a link

it will be as wide as is tall

we can fit billions in there comfortably and the walls will not be so thin so u dont have to bang on the golden walls to 'please turn down the radio!'

a pic to behold!

[Bravus]

A cube 1500 miles on a side, apparently. That's 3.375 billion cubic miles.

The land area of earth is about 57 million square miles. That's about 1/59 of the Holy City. So if we imagine the height dimension of 1500 miles divided by that, we could have a set of 59 layers each 25 miles high: no low ceilings here!

That's assuming the Holy City is the size of Earth and presuming that it needs to contain only people from Earth. If it contains people from other civilisations we'd need to add a few more layers, but even a 5 mile ceiling would be pretty spacious.

And there's enough room for everyone on Earth, on Earth, and the common thinking (with a few dissenters) seems to be that not everyone on Earth will make it to heaven, so there's more room in the Holy City alone (but I plan to be out exploring the universe a lot!) than there is on earth, so we can have fairly serious mansions.

And of course, I'm sure God's internal architecture of the City is far more interesting than flat plates... this was just so I could get my head around it!

[Bravus]

And Parade Orange, amen and amen! God is infinite and infinitely creative... I far prefer your endlessly fecund universe than the rather simplistic one my tongue-in-cheek calculations describe!

[Parade Orange]

TY BRAVUS for saying that and i wanted to commend u for putting workable math on that cause like CLUBV12 i was figuering it out and my head hurt

i forgot cause my mind was swept away by the possibilities!

[Parade Orange]

600,000 stories high! right into space!

i think of them as opulent condos! billions of them!

[BobRyan]

A little silliness with excessive literalness.

Or... you could just look at where you got the quote.

If it was from Daniel 7 - then all you are doing is counting the number that are dedicated to the court room and missing the entire group out there serving the various planets including ministering to the saints.

I guess we need to know more about the context.

in Christ,

Bob

[Dr. Shane]

Since God has foresight and knows the beginning from the end, the size of the city should reflect the number of the saved. That being, God knew how many would be saved before He designed the city. So that gives us an idea of how many will be saved - billions.

[Bravus]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

A little silliness with excessive literalness.

Or... you could just look at where you got the quote.

If it was from Daniel 7 - then all you are doing is counting the number that are dedicated to the court room and missing the entire group out there serving the various planets including ministering to the saints.

I guess we need to know more about the context.

Yeah, there's that too: both Daniel and Revelation use those words, in similar contexts, and you're correct that it's not the entire number of angels.

I was honestly just playing, not making any kind of jab at literalism. Can we not make this so-far-fun thread into one more boring battle?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Hmm, well, there're two angels standing guard at the Garden of Eden..but maybe they got re-assigned..

[Parade Orange]

RUDYWOOFS lol i would hope so!

[Neil D]

being a fan of Dr. Who, I wonder......

His Tardis is bigger on the inside than on the outside.....

If I allow for an infinite God, constructing a building...would I necessarily HAVE to follow ALL the currently known rules of construction....???

I mean, concider,that the number of people off planet is rather large...far larger than a few billion people.....If many of them would come for a visit, would we not have 4-5 trillion individuals? If there were more people on the sea of glass than sand on the seashore, that's a lot of people...I know..I visit a sea shore nearly once a week...

anyways, if the new city is bigger on the inside than on the outside, ...it could accommadate some planets...possibly...

I know...speculation at best...

[Parade Orange]

HB!

when i first read your post i thought

HUH!

but u got me thinkin

we live in three dimensions!

the angels dont!!!!!

its now from HUH

to

HMMMMMMM..

[Tom Wetmore]

...And of course, I'm sure God's internal architecture of the City is far more interesting than flat plates... this was just so I could get my head around it!

I envision (If I am envisioning something can I say I am in vision... I think, therefore I am...) ... OK where was I? Oh yes. I envision that the City is constructed inter-dimensionally like the world of Obsidian.

DId anyone else here play that mind expanding (or was it altering...) game?

(It was heaven or Nirvana, or something like that, for us adventure gamers, and it was hell to play... Better than Myst!)

[Parade Orange]

o wow TOM WETMORE!

i know nothing of that world!

did anyone see JAMES and the GIANT PEACH?

talk about another world!

inside the peach

u know we havent even scratched the surface of what it is to see beyond what our eyes dont see!

u see?

[Planey]

I envision that the City is constructed inter-dimensionally like the world of Obsidian

So I take it that the Holy City may not be a cube, but rather a teseract?

How many mansions then? And would eac mansion be in itself also a teseract?

Hmmmm...

Graeme

[ClubV12]

Whats that song? "Plenty of room in the family,,,," :)

[fccool]

I always found it rather interesting how the Rev is interpreted in terms of rampant symbolism... and yet after all of that symbolism, we jump to a rather bizarre literal interpretation of 1500 mile perfect cube city that all of the resurrected people inhabit for a 1000 years, which then the rest of the inhabitants of earth storm after the second resurrection. I sure hope that they are resurrected and brought before the gates, because it would make a considerable trip from all points of earth with no transportation, or food.

Or, could it be that a ginormous city of saints coming from the sky with God in their midst could be a symbol of something, just like the rest of the cities mentioned in Revelation?

[Parade Orange]

i take the STORY OF THE NEW CITY ON THE NEW EARTH VERY SERIOUSLY n LITERLY!

i posted a link to show just how big it would it be compared to our present earth

and i believe our CITY HOME MANSIONS will be opulent and very very spaciouse to hold very large dinner parties that JESUS will attend with HIS HEAVENLY PROCESSION of 144 thousand!

no need room for expansion!

i also stumbled across a thought that what we see n know is experienced in the 3 diminsions

and i believe there is something that works within our understanding of space, time and gravity to the possibly of a fourth diminsion that quantum mechanics atempt to figure out to allow something present that we dont see

soooo

taking that in consideration i think HEAVEN /NEW EARTH even be a lil more supernatural cause the inhabitants are!

[ClubV12]

If I'm not mistaken, Sister White makes a comment about the ascention to heaven, for the Saints, takes 7 days.

This thought brought to you by the post that suggested we might get hungry.

I think it's obvious we will be traveling in excess of the speed limit of light, and it STILL takes seven days! Speed of light, when compared to the vastness of the Universe, is very very slow. Scientist talk in terms of "light years" just to begin an exploration (let alone reach heaven).

[phkrause]

I always found it rather interesting how the Rev is interpreted in terms of rampant symbolism... and yet after all of that symbolism, we jump to a rather bizarre literal interpretation of 1500 mile perfect cube city that all of the resurrected people inhabit for a 1000 years, which then the rest of the inhabitants of earth storm after the second resurrection. I sure hope that they are resurrected and brought before the gates, because it would make a considerable trip from all points of earth with no transportation, or food.

Or, could it be that a ginormous city of saints coming from the sky with God in their midst could be a symbol of something, just like the rest of the cities mentioned in Revelation?

Not to contradict what you said, because I think you make a good point, but if I'm not mistaken the New Jerusalem comes down to the New Earth after the thousand years. I could be wrong, I'll check it out for my self again. Its been a while since I've read Revelation.

[Gail]

And Parade Orange, amen and amen! God is infinite and infinitely creative... I far prefer your endlessly fecund universe than the rather simplistic one my tongue-in-cheek calculations describe!