Elder or Pastor?

[Yongaz]

Hi all... I've been reading this forum for quite a bit but never really posted. Thought it was about time I did...

I've got a question (I've received many different versions / answers from different people) - what's the difference between an elder and a pastor? I'm not talking about the local church elder... I'm talking about elder like Elder Mark Finley, which seems to be a title of respect and distinction more so than pastor.

Is it just something that's given by people? I know pastors are of course ordained, but what about the elder title?

I suppose I could just write to the GC, but I thought I'd see what people here thought first.

[John317]

Yes, I agree: it's about time you did. LOL

Welcome to ClubAdventistForum, Yongaz!! We're glad you decided to join us from "down under" and post your thoughts.

[John317]

....what's the difference between an elder and a pastor? I'm not talking about the local church elder... I'm talking about elder like Elder Mark Finley, which seems to be a title of respect and distinction more so than pastor.

You ask an interesting question. I don't think I've ever read or heard the subject discussed.

Based on my own experience in the SDA church, when we refer to ministers or leaders in the church as "Elder so-and-so," it is a title of respect and not a description of their work. I myself don't see it as showing more respect than the title of "pastor."

When used in this way, the titles "pastor" and "elder" are interchangeable.

In the case of Mark Finely, the title "Elder" seems more appropriate than "pastor," because he's primarily an evangelist and not the pastor of a church. So I suppose one could say there are subtle differences between the way those two titles are used.

Others may see it differently than I've expressed it here. I've only given my personal opinion and am not suggesting that this is the way all SDAs use those titles. It will be interesting to see what others say about it.

It occurs to me that it may be significant to the discussion that the response I gave above is coming from an American point of view, and it's very probable that the responses by Australians and people from other areas of the world will be quite different.

[John317]

Thank you, dgrimm. I'm interested, too, in what you think, if you'd care to share your thoughts.

[Gail]

I wonder if it has to do also with how they are renumerated by the church. If they are not receiving a pastor's salary then they are not titled as pastor.

For example, a friend of ours is a pastor but is currently employed as a teacher. He's addressed by his name, not as Pastor such-and-such.

Anyone have any more light on this?

[Gail]

Yongaz, welcome to the forum, by the way! Nice to see you here :)

[Outta Here]

Interestingly, when I speak of Mark Finley, I don't use the term "Elder" or "Pastor". I just use his name. When I had the opportunity to meet him in person, I simply called him Mr. Finley. To me, the title used is in relation to me. If he were my pastor, I'd call him "Pastor Mark", if he were an elder in my church, I'd probably just call him "Mark". And if he were a stranger, or if it were the first time meeting, it would be "Mr. Finley".

By the way, I don't use the title "Doctor" to anyone but my own doctors.

[Nan]

I had the impression that in North America ordained ministers were addressed as Elder.

In Australia ordained ministers are titled/addressed as pastor, elder is used to refer to those ordained

church officials but they are never addressed as Elder Smith, just bro/sis, Mr/Mrs or their first names

in some local churches.

At least that is how I think it works down this part of the globe :)

[phkrause]

I have to agree John, Aubrey. Most of the time an ordained minister who happens to be a pastor will usually be addressed as pastor and an ordained minister who is working in a different position are usually referred to as elder, since they are no longer employed as a pastor of a church.

[olger]

Bacchiocchi liked to be called "brother Sam."

`oG

[John317]

That's interesting, olger. I wonder why. Maybe he got used to being called that while he was in Rome. You know what they say: when in Rome, do as the Romans do.

[Dottie]

I had thought the the title "Elder" was no longer commonly used, at least around here. The title "Pastor" is used, but not with the surname. Pastor Joe, Pastor Sally, Pastor Carl, etc.

I figured maybe the title "Elder" wasn't used because the Mormons refer to their leaders as "Elder." We don't use the title "Father," either, because our Father is God.

[Yongaz]

thank you all for your responses... and your welcome! lol yeah it looks I've been reading this forum since... 2005, since that's when I registered. LOL I think this has got to be some sort of record?

Anyway I'm part of several different forums, but don't generally have the time to be as active... you'll probably see more of me here though.

Back to the discussion - it's a question asked out of curiosity more than anything else. I've lived in the US for about 3 years (I've just recently moved back to Melbourne), and it seems like in some cultures the term "Elder" is more a sign of respect than anything else, as some of you mentioned (that's what I've always thought). In Australia, I don't believe I've seen anyone referred to that much, if at all, like Nan has mentioned.

What prompted the discussion was that I know of a pastor who was recently ordained, and one of my friends mentioned that everyone now calls him "Elder". He's done quite a lot and has been quite active actually... I'm surprised it took him that long to be ordained. In any case, I thought it was some sort of "promotion", which doesn't seem to be case....

Based on my own experience in the SDA church, when we refer to ministers or leaders in the church as "Elder so-and-so," it is a title of respect and not a description of their work. I myself don't see it as showing more respect than the title of "pastor."

When used in this way, the titles "pastor" and "elder" are interchangeable.

In the case of Mark Finely, the title "Elder" seems more appropriate than "pastor," because he's primarily an evangelist and not the pastor of a church. So I suppose one could say there are subtle differences between the way those two titles are used.

[nuff sed]

It just may be that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the only denomination that uses the terms "Elder and Pastor' interchangeably.

Some of the other denominations use the term, Pastor, only when the Ordained Minister actually 'pastors' a church. I have seen my name listed in an inter-denominational bulletin with the notation "Not pastor"... Nuff Sed

[John317]

It sounds like it may be the SDA church in North America, or maybe even in certain parts of North America, who use those words interchangeably. My dad was a pastor of several churches, and people in the church would address him or speak of him as either "pastor" or "elder." It didn't seem to make any difference to him or to anyone else. I noticed, though, that he always wrote his name as "pastor G---" and never as "elder G---." I never did ask him why or how important the distinction was in his view.

So while those titles seem to be more or less interchangeable, there are apparently subtle differences.

[John317]

I know of one African gentleman who's currently in the Seminary in Andrews who signs his name (even his FB name) as Elder for everything (don't know about his term papers and exams though). I don't know him so I couldn't ask... do you guys think it's a big thing there as well when it comes to titles?

I tend to think that this practice is not usual among pastors in the SDA church. I know of a number of well-known SDA pastors on FB who don't give their name as "elder" or "pastor". They simply give their name, but their FB info usually informs you that they are SDA pastors.

Maybe someone from Africa could explain the difference in how someone from there might view these matters as compared to an American. I think there is some slight difference but I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough about it to say more.

[nuff sed]

Sometimes within the church structure I use Elder or Pastor interchangeably. I NEVER use Elder in public. I might be mistaken for Mormon. Nuff Sed.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I just had 3 LDS ladies come to the door wanting me to read the Book of Mormon. They just built a new church in town because the other one was too small - both churches have separate congregations...pretty amazing for a small town..

[Yongaz]

thank you all! I have some African friends so I'll probably ask them... but yeah like I've said, it's definitely more an American thing than anything else. I never knew about the Mormon thing though so its good to know...