Papacy's Influence In the United States

[james423]

Ellen G. White, The Great Controversy Between Christ and Satan , p. 581 says the following:

"God’s word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever shall believe and obey the word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution.”

I thought about this statement when I read the following article from the New York Times . It seemed to me (and to my American History students when I discussed it with them) that the article neatly parallels Sentences 2-3 and 5-6 in the Ellen White quote above (please note that I have reduced the number of paragraphs in the original article by combining them. No wording was changed as far as I know). Granted, the New York Times does have a bias - to make President Bush look bad, but the article is still a stricking piece of work.

-------------------------------

New York Times

April 4, 2005

IN THE UNITED STATES

New Pope Could Influence Political Life in America

By ADAM NAGOURNEY

WASHINGTON, April 3 - The death of Pope John Paul II came at a time when leaders of the Roman Catholic Church, reflecting the tone set by the Vatican, have become increasingly assertive in American political life. Their stance has created strains with some Catholic Democrats just as the White House has sought to make inroads with the once solidly Democratic Catholic constituency. Several Catholic academics and elected officials said on Sunday that the shift - highlighted last year when some church leaders said Senator John Kerry should be denied communion because he supports abortion rights - reflected the tone set by a pope who was known for being conservative and for being willing to confront governments to press his views. They said the choice of the next pontiff could thus prove nearly as important for American political life as for the Vatican itself, as Democrats and Republicans here face increasingly pitched battles over judicial nominations, abortion, gay rights and euthanasia.

One of the potential successors to John Paul is Cardinal Francis Arinze of Nigeria, who during last year’s presidential campaign said a politician who supported abortion “is not fit” to receive communion. “I’ve seen an increase in directly political kinds of activity: what the responsibilities of Catholics are, how they should vote, etc.,” said Mark J. Rozell, a professor of public policy at George Mason University and the author of numerous books and articles on religion and politics. “Some Vatican officials are pressing for more direct activism in public life and are willing to be more critical of public policy figures who do not take what they consider to be the right positions on policy issues.” John T. McGreevy, a professor of history at the University of Notre Dame, said: “John Paul had this culture of life vision. And that has sort of radicalized and emboldened some bishops.”

The attempt by some Catholic Church leaders to influence American policy goes back at least to the 1930’s, when bishops pressed President Franklin D. Roosevelt to create Social Security. The notion of church activism was fostered by the reforms of the Second Vatican Council 40 years ago, which encouraged bishops to advocate government programs to help the poor.

But in recent years, the emphasis has shifted away from fighting poverty and standing up for civil rights, issues associated with the Democratic Party, and toward issues like opposition to abortion, gay rights and euthanasia, issues that Mr. Bush and the Republicans have embraced. At times last year, this assertiveness went beyond policy and into electoral politics, as some bishops hinted that their parishioners should vote for Mr. Bush instead of Mr. Kerry. At St. Patrick’s Church in Wareham, Mass., for example, parishioners said that at the Saturday evening Mass right after the death of the pope, they were given pamphlets notifying them that they would be asked next week to sign postcards to Mr. Kerry and the state’s other Democratic senator, Edward M. Kennedy, reading: “Please do not make support of the U.S. Supreme Court’s abortion decision a litmus test for judicial nominees.”

The rising assertiveness of some church leaders is particularly significant for American politics because President Bush has been making a concerted effort to win support among Catholic voters. Mr. Bush’s efforts are part of an overall drive by his chief adviser, Karl Rove, to make inroads among typically Democratic groups of voters.

Mr. Bush assembled a group of Catholic advisers and began meeting with them regularly as soon as he entered the White House. Shortly after the Vatican announced the death of the pontiff, Mr. Bush and Laura Bush walked in unannounced to a Saturday afternoon Mass at the Cathedral of St. Matthew the Apostle. Mr. Bush’s aides said Sunday that he expected to attend the funeral but had not made formal plans pending an invitation from the Vatican. In talking about the dispute over the fate of Terri Schiavo, the severely brain-damaged Florida woman who died last week, Mr. Bush borrowed what had been a signature phrase of John Paul, as he talked about guarding “the culture of life,” and he has forcefully embraced the Vatican’s views on abortion, stem cell research and gay marriage. “It is remarkable that a Republican non-Catholic president would be echoing this papal phrase,” Professor McGreevy said. “Clearly, focusing on abortion and end-of-life issues, that was a big issue of this pope.”

There is evidence that Mr. Bush has had some success in this regard. In last year’s presidential election, Catholics supported Mr. Bush over Mr. Kerry, a Roman Catholic, by 52 percent to 47 percent, according to a survey of voters leaving the polls. Catholics made up 27 percent of the electorate last year, but they are disproportionately clustered in swing states, particularly Ohio and Pennsylvania, making them an important target in presidential campaigns. Roman Catholics, however, are hardly a unified bloc of voters, and some analysts suggested on Sunday that the prominent bishops at the forefront of these recent battles are more conservative than most Catholic voters or, indeed, their fellow bishops. Most polls show that Catholics support at least some access to abortion. And Mr. Bush’s success with those voters last year came among the more devout: regular church-going Catholics supported him by 56 percent to 43 percent. Catholics who attend church less than once a week supported Mr. Bush by 50 percent to 49 percent.

Mr. Kerry was the third Catholic who has won a major party’s nomination for president; Kennedy was the only Catholic to have been elected president. After Mr. Kerry’s defeat, a number of Democrats said they could not see how in this environment a Catholic Democrat could win the presidency, given that he or she would almost certainly have to support abortion rights to win the nomination.

There is arguably no other religion that has had such a contentious relationship with American politics, and Mr. Kerry is certainly not the first Roman Catholic politician who has had difficulty with his church because of his views on issues of abortion. Most famously, former Gov. Mario M. Cuomo of New York tangled with Cardinal John J. O’Connor of New York after the cardinal said he did not see how “a Catholic in good conscience can vote for a candidate who explicitly supports abortion.”

Last May, 48 Democratic Catholics in Congress sent a letter to Cardinal Theodore E. McCarrick of Washington, the chairman of the Task Force on Catholic Bishops and Catholic Politicians, expressing concern about the threat of withholding communion from Catholic politicians who support abortion rights. One of the signers, Representative Rosa DeLauro, Democrat of Connecticut, said she hoped the change of leadership at the Vatican would result in the church’s turning its attention to what had been a traditional concern: “the great traditions of economic and social justice.” Some Catholic leaders suggested it would be a mistake for the next pope to continue down the road of involvement in politics and policy. “I really think it was counterproductive to have done what was done in the last election,” said Margaret O’Brien Steinfels, a former editor of Commonweal, the magazine of the Catholic laity. “I don’t think it’s going to work. I think it’s a mistake for bishops to get involved to that degree in policy. I don’t think the bishops should tell people who they should vote for. All they do is dilute their own credibility.”

[Dr. Shane]

The papacy has gained an influence in American politics. There is no denying that. Most notable is its work with President Reagon in bringing down communism in eastern Europe. However every President since then has consulted the Vatican.

Of course President GW Bush has had its difference with the Vatican on capital punishment, war in Iraq and even stem-cell research (the Vatican takes a more conservative view than Bush).

I am unsettled a little with Bush being the first President to ever attend a pope's funeral. I am not sure if this is because of his strong support from American Catholics, good mannered diplomacy or because it is such a big media event. From what I have read about him, I doubt it is because of his faith.

[Ulunruh]

It's official,

Joseph Ratzinger -- the stern leader of the "Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith", the modern successor to the Inquisition, is now pope Benedict XVI

What will that mean for the future?

[Restin]

Yes, indeed, the whole world is wondering after the beast! Back in the '50's when i was a teen going to SDA Academy, no one could even imagine the power, presence, and following the pope enjoys these days in the world and in the media. Makes a chill go down yer spine, to be living in these days of fulfilling prophecies in politics and in nature. Awesome!

[Ron Lambert]

Technically, the papacy (or a future regime or faction which will take control of the papacy) is the woman who will ride the beast in line with Revelation 17. The beast itself will be a European union united in a religious agenda, which the regime which will control the papacy will be allowed to direct for a time, until the falling out between the heads of the beast and the papal regime predicted in Rev. 17:16.

[Jeannieb43]

It's very easy to see how Joseph Ratzinger's 23-year history of punishing heresy will have an effect on the way he rules the Catholic church as Pope. The Inquisition and its methods of torture formed the template for later persecutions by other organizations, including the Jewish Holocaust. This is understandable, because of the Catholic teaching which glorifies suffering. [An example: the extremely gory movie The Passion of Christ, made by a loyal Catholic, Mel Gibson.] Even Pope John Paul II wanted to show the world by his dying, how to become "glofied through suffering." So by torturing those who are teaching "heresy" they feel they are doing God's work.

Also, one radio commentator this morning said the election of Ratzinger should help the social causes of the radical right in the U.S. Ratzinger believes in even more conservative teachings than did John Paul II, in such areas as birth control, abortion, women's rights, etc.

[Robert]

When the Adventist church [now Laodicea] fully restores the full and complete gospel (see Rev 14:6) then Satan will use the Papacy and its perverted gospel of works to persecute the remnant....

[james423]

Just the other day I read an article on the CBS News web site commenting that for a political party to get voters to vote their way the party has to recognize that religion is central to the American way of life.

Yesterday I was in the Dayton, TN library and noticed a painting of the old Rhea County jail building as it looked in 1900. It reminded me of the Adventists who were probably housed in that very building while they worked out their sentences on the county's chain gangs.

With the papacy's growing influence in American life, the closing scenes of American history as Ellen White depicts them may not be far off.

[Pockey]

James, you got me researching this. I didn't realize SDA's had quite a role in the Scopes trial too. Interesting stuff. Here's the article if anyone is interested:

http://www.adventistreview.org/pdf/2000/1543-2000.pdf

[Ulunruh]

Well, now we have an American as the leader of the "inquistion"!

What do you think of that?

San Francisco Archbishop William Levada is Joseph Ratzinger's successor as guardian of doctrine and discipliner of the unfaithful. (The Perfect for the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith) The position is one of the most powerful, next to the pope.

[Ulunruh]

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/114/21.0.html

Weblog: 'Antichrist' No More: Evangelicals Praise Pope

Most are unreserved in their praise on political, social, and even theological matters, but critique of papacy

[Nicodema]

Quote:

---

Technically, the papacy (or a future regime or faction which will take control of the papacy) is the woman who will ride the beast in line with Revelation 17. The beast itself will be a European union united in a religious agenda, which the regime which will control the papacy will be allowed to direct for a time, until the falling out between the heads of the beast and the papal regime predicted in Rev. 17:16.

---

The Beast as European Union is a product of mainstream evangelical eschatology. I personally believe it is intended to distract from the real source of the threat and the real location where the Beast power will arise. Seventh-day Adventists have traditionally held the Second Beast of Revelation 13 to refer to the United States as a world power, and the "image to the (first) beast" to constitute a religio-political agenda using the adulterous union of church and state to enforce its decrees. While it is recognized that yes, eventually this oppression will be worldwide and not confined to any one nation, it is important to note that where the second beast power originates within the U.S. The "land of the free and home of the brave" will progressively degenerate as civil and religious liberties are increasingly eroded, all presumably in the name of serving God and manifesting "His" Kingdom on earth.

I hold to the SDA interpretation myself. It should be noted that some with a political agenda to take the "heat" off this present administration with its follies and sins, who have a vested interest in making it appear that this administration is righteous in all that it does (rubbish, no administration has ever been) will doubtless work to erode confidence in the traditional SDA understanding that the second beast rises from within the United States. They simply don't want to face the truth. But the truth is clear: if ANY man worship the beast, and receive his mark in the right hand or in the forehead, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God.

The water is slowly heating up, fellow froggies. You can adapt and insist nothing is amiss or you can get out of the pot before it boils. I for one intend to keep pointing out this fact and I don't give a rat's patoot who calls me an alarmist. When a house is on fire, an alarm is needed. Especially for sleepyheads influenced by too much smoke inhalation (never mind the mirrors!)

[Clio]

You are absolutely correct Nico. Look at the original apocalyptic vision in Daniel 2, where the broad outlines of the events were first laid out.

The final kingdom that succeeds Rome with be the feet and toes of iron and clay... Iron and clay have some interesting properties.

First and foremost among them is the impossibility of them ever "cleaving together". They don't mix... period. World domination, even being a world super-power, will never be allowed for the remnants of the Roman Empire.

For the Rock cut without a man's hand, coming from outside the earth, destroys the statue.... and those feet and toes of iron and clay never do mix...

I expect the EU constitution vote in France to fail, and Gaul will take her place in the gog/magog alliance that is already in place and lacking only France.

Clio