Fundamental principles / fundamental beliefs

[Dr. Waite]

The Declaration of Fundamental Principles Taught and Practiced by Seventh Day Adventists published in 1872 was not put forth as having any authority with Seventh-day Adventists. Are the current 28 Fundamental Beliefs set forth as having authority with Seventh-day Adventists? If so, why has there been a change between 1872 and the current fundamental beliefs? If you say no, then why does the General Conference of Seventh Day Adventists sue other churches or individuals who call themselves Seventh day Adventists and follow the 1872 Fundamental Principles, but do not follow the current fundamental beliefs?

The Declaration of Fundamental Principles Taught and Practiced by Seventh Day Adventists published in 1872 states the following:

"IN presenting to the public this synopsis of our faith, we wish to have it distinctly understood that we have no articles of faith, creed, or discipline, aside from the Bible. We do not put forth this as having any authority with our people, nor is it designed to secure uniformity among them, as a system of faith, but is a brief statement of what is, and has been, with great unanimity, held by them. We often find it necessary to meet inquiries on this subject, and sometimes to correct false statements circulated against us, and to remove erroneous impressions which have obtained with those who have not had an opportunity to become acquainted with our faith and practice.

Our only object is to meet this necessity."

The current Fundamental Beliefs state the following:

"Seventh-day Adventists accept the Bible as their only creed and hold certain fundamental beliefs to be the teaching of the Holy Scriptures. These beliefs, as set forth here, constitute the church's understanding and expression of the teaching of Scripture. Revision of these statements may be expected at a General Conference session when the church is led by the Holy Spirit to a fuller understanding of Bible truth or finds better language in which to express the teachings of God's Holy Word."

Does the church only listen to the holy spirit every 5 years to gain a fuller understanding of Bible truth?

[ClubV12]

Would you rather each church meet every month, or maybe once a year to review the fundamental beliefs for themselves? Are you sugggesting a united world wide position on fundamental beliefs is a hindrance of some kind? How often would you recommend the GC meet to review this criteria? Every 6 months? Every ten years? Did we have all the truth in 1872 and have need of new understanding?

What IS the point of this thread? Fundamental beliefs and trademark issues are two differnt things.

The GC has a trademark(s), good or bad that could be argued. How they apply that trademark is a considered position. Ford, GM and lots of companies also have trademarks. They don't go after every group, web site or person who violates that trademark, like the GC, it's a considered position on what, if any, action needs to be taken.

Would you suggest that any such action should be up to a vote by every Adventist church in the world before any action is taken? Or are you suggesting that any and everybody can call themselves Seventh-day Adventists and it's every man for himself? Maybe we should just dissolve the GC altogether and let it literally be every church for themselves?

I don't know, perhaps we should put YOU in charge and let you make the decisions on the fundamental beliefs and who and can't use the Adventist name in commercial or church related work? Let's just cut to the chase and do away with church membership altogether, every MAN for himself.

[Dr. Waite]

Would you rather each church meet every month, or maybe once a year to review the fundamental beliefs for themselves? Are you sugggesting a united world wide position on fundamental beliefs is a hindrance of some kind? How often would you recommend the GC meet to review this criteria? Every 6 months? Every ten years? Did we have all the truth in 1872 and have need of new understanding?

What IS the point of this thread? Fundamental beliefs and trademark issues are two differnt things.

The GC has a trademark(s), good or bad that could be argued. How they apply that trademark is a considered position. Ford, GM and lots of companies also have trademarks. They don't go after every group, web site or person who violates that trademark, like the GC, it's a considered position on what, if any, action needs to be taken.

Would you suggest that any such action should be up to a vote by every Adventist church in the world before any action is taken? Or are you suggesting that any and everybody can call themselves Seventh-day Adventists and it's every man for himself? Maybe we should just dissolve the GC altogether and let it literally be every church for themselves?

I don't know, perhaps we should put YOU in charge and let you make the decisions on the fundamental beliefs and who and can't use the Adventist name in commercial or church related work? Let's just cut to the chase and do away with church membership altogether, every MAN for himself.

How did the members of the SDA church during the time that God's messenger Ellen G. Harmon/White was alive arrive at what they believed?

See Selected Messages Book One page 206:

"Many of our people do not realize how firmly the foundation of our faith has been laid. My husband, Elder Joseph Bates, Father Pierce, Elder {Hiram} Edson, and others who were keen, noble, and true, were among those who, after the passing of the time in 1844, searched for the truth as for hidden treasure. I met with them, and we studied and prayed earnestly. Often we remained together until late at night, and sometimes through the entire night, praying for light and studying the Word. Again and again these brethren came together to study the Bible, in order that they might know its meaning, and be prepared to teach it with power. When they came to the point in their study where they said, "We can do nothing more," the Spirit of the Lord would come upon me, I would be taken off in vision, and a clear explanation of the passages we had been studying would be given me, with instruction as to how we were to labor and teach effectively. Thus light was given that helped us to understand the scriptures in regard to Christ, His mission, and His priesthood. A line of truth extending from that time to the time when we shall enter the city of God, was made plain to me, and I gave to others the instruction that the Lord had given me." {1SM 206.4}

You ask: "Are you sugggesting (sp) a united world wide position on fundamental beliefs is a hindrance of some kind?"

No not necessarily, but I am suggesting that the position on fundamental beliefs is a hindrance of some kind if the method of arriving at a change in those beliefs is not done in God's way which was the way the pioneers followed as stated in 1SM 206.

[ClubV12]

I don't have reason to believe it's not done in Gods way. Careful searching of the scriptures by the designated brethren and careful consideration of an expanded understanding of existing fundamental beliefs. By a multitude of counselors. Of course, we don't have a prophet in person to verify but if we needed one, God is not limited in steering His people.

[skyblue888]

"Where there is no counsel, the people fall; but in the multitude of counselors there is safety." Prov.11:14.

"Your testimonies are also my delight and my counselors." Psalm 119:24.

"I will bless the Lord who has given me counsel." Ps.16:7.

[Dr. Waite]

I don't have reason to believe it's not done in Gods way. Careful searching of the scriptures by the designated brethren and careful consideration of an expanded understanding of existing fundamental beliefs. By a multitude of counselors. Of course, we don't have a prophet in person to verify but if we needed one, God is not limited in steering His people.

IS "Careful searching of the scriptures by the designated brethren and careful consideration of an expanded understanding of existing fundamental beliefs." all that God requires?

OR does God require every person (not just designated brethren) to search the scriptures like the pioneers did as set forth in 1SM 206 ?

WE "don't have a prophet in person to verify", but we can search the writings of God's messenger when we are searching the scriptures.

[John317]

does God require every person (not just designated brethren) to search the scriptures like the pioneers did as set forth in 1SM 206 ?

Yes, every person.

Yet the church must speak with one voice so the world hears a distinct message.

If someone studies and decides he can't accept the church's beliefs and teachings, he should leave the church, not continue to claim to be a member while working against the church, causing disunity.

[ClubV12]

Lot's of people on this forum claim they don't need the counsel of anybody but the Holy Spirit and their own personal study. Consequently, we have a number of "theology experts" claiming to have the truth, all with different versions. Which is EXACTLY what we have with the 1,000 plus christian religions around the world and different theology, each one claiming to be led of the Holy Spirit. I'm studying each and every issue for myself and a BIG RED WARNING FLAG is when I find myself disagreeing with the "counsel of the brethren". That should be your first clue, proceed with caution. Even Martin Luther considered that advice carefully, he had no interest in leaving the church until all his options were exhausted and his theology verified to the point where he had no choice. He was sincere and he was right. But we see plenty of sincere people today who are sincerely mistaken.

[BobRyan]

Ellen White flatly condemned any effort to undermine or change the Fundamental Beliefs.

[John317]

[John317]

Ellen White flatly condemned any effort to undermine or change the Fundamental Beliefs.

Do you mean the foundational pillars of our faith? These are the beliefs that our Pioneers understood as a result of the Sabbath Bible Conferences of 1849-1851.

Ellen White had various ways of referring to them, but the Fundamental Beliefs are usually associated with the 28 FB of today. Our 28 FB are subject to change when the world church in General Conferences votes to change them.

Below are some of the key passages from Ellen White's writings:

Quote:

Let the truths that are the foundation of our faith be kept before the people. Some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. They talk science, and the enemy comes in and gives them an abundance of science; but it is not the science of salvation. It is not the science of humility, of consecration, or of the sanctification of the Spirit. We are now to understand what the pillars of our faith are,--the truths that have made us as a people what we are, leading us on step by step.-- Review and Herald, May 25, 1905. {CW 29.1}

Led of God, but Not Infallible.--We must not think, "Well, we have all the truth, we understand the main pillars of our faith, and we may rest on this knowledge." The truth is an advancing truth, and we must walk in the increasing light. {CW 33.2}

A brother asked, "Sister White, do you think we must understand the truth for ourselves? Why can we not take the truths that others have gathered together, and believe them because they have investigated the subjects, and then we shall be free to go on without the taxing of the powers of the mind in the investigation of all these subjects? Do you not think that these men who have brought out the truth in the past were inspired of God?" {CW 33, 34}

I dare not say they were not led of God, for Christ leads into all truth; but when it comes to inspiration in the fullest sense of the word, I answer, No. I believe that God has given them a work to do, but if they are not fully consecrated to God at all times, they will weave self and their peculiar traits of character into what they are doing, and will put their mold upon the work, and fashion men in religious experience after their own pattern. It is dangerous for us to make flesh our arm. We should lean upon the arm of Infinite Power. God has been revealing this to us for years. We must have living faith in our hearts and reach out for larger knowledge and more advanced light.--Review and Herald, March 25, 1890. {CW 34.1}

The only right way would be to sit down as Christians and investigate the position presented, in the light of God's word, which will reveal truth and unmask error. To ridicule his ideas would not weaken his position in the least if it were false, or strengthen your position if it were true. If the pillars of our faith will not stand the test of investigation, it is time that we knew it. There must be no spirit of pharisaism cherished among us. When Christ came to His own, His own received Him not; and it is a matter of solemn interest to us that we should not pursue a similar course in refusing light from heaven. {CW 44, 45}

Landmarks of Truth, Experience, and Duty.-- Messages of every order and kind have been urged upon Seventh-day Adventists, to take the place of the truth which, point by point, has been sought out by prayerful study, and testified to by the miracle-working power of the Lord. But the waymarks which have made us what we are, are to be preserved, and they will be preserved, as God has signified through His word and the testimony of His Spirit. He calls upon us to hold firmly, with the grip of faith, to the fundamental principles that are based upon unquestionable authority.--Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 2, p. 59. (1904.) {CW 52.1}

As a people we are to stand firm on the platform of eternal truth that has withstood test and trial. We are to hold to the sure pillars of our faith. The principles of truth that God has revealed to us are our only true foundation. They have made us what we are. The lapse of time had not lessened their value.-- Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 2, p. 51. (1904.) {CW 52.2}

No line of truth that has made the Seventh-day Adventist people what they are, is to be weakened. We have the old landmarks of truth, experience, and duty, and we are to stand firmly in defense of our principles, in full view of the world.--Testimonies, Vol. 6, p. 17. {CW 52, 53}

Moving a Block or Stirring a Pin.--I saw a company who stood well guarded and firm, giving no countenance to those who would unsettle the established faith of the body. God looked upon them with approbation. I was shown three steps,--the first, second, and third angels' messages. Said my accompanying angel, "Woe to him who shall move a block or stir a pin of these messages. The true understanding of these messages is of vital importance. The destiny of souls hangs upon the manner in which they are received." I was again brought down through these messages, and saw how dearly the people of God had purchased their experience. It had been obtained through much suffering and severe conflict. God had led them along step by step, until He had placed them upon a solid, immovable platform. --Early Writings, pp. 258, 259. (1858.) {CW 53.1}

The Sanctuary a Point of Special Attack.-- In the future, deception of every kind is to arise, and we want solid ground for our feet. We want solid pillars for the building. Not one pin is to be removed from that which the Lord has established. The enemy will bring in false theories, such as the doctrine that there is no sanctuary. This is one of the points on which there will be a departing from the faith. Where shall we find safety unless it be in the truths that the Lord has been giving for the last fifty years?-- Review and Herald, May 25, 1905. {CW 53.2}

Satan is striving continually to bring in fanciful suppositions in regard to the sanctuary, degrading the wonderful representations of God and the ministry of Christ for our salvation into something that suits the carnal mind. He removes its presiding power from the hearts of believers, and supplies its place with fantastic theories invented to make void the truths of the atonement, and destroy our confidence in the doctrines which we have held sacred since the third angel's message was first given. Thus he would rob us of our faith in the very message that has made us a separate people, and has given character and power to our work.--Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 17. (1905.) {CW 53, 54}