California Couple Fined $300 for Holding Home Bible Studies

[Dr. Shane]

Couple Fined For Home Bible Study

Quote:

The city of San Juan Capistrano, in Orange County, fined Charles and Stephanie Fromm $300 for having as many as 50 people assembled at their home twice a week, the Times reported. City officials also warned the couple that subsequent fines could increase if they continued to host the Bible studies without obtaining a special permit.

A religious legal non-profit group, the Pacific Justice Institute (PJI), has taken up the case saying the fine was a violation of religious freedom.

A spokeswoman for the city of San Juan Capistrano stressed that local authorities were not trying to prohibit home Bible study.

Instead, she said the city fined the Fromms for transforming a residential area into a place where people regularly assemble.

"The Fromm case further involves regular meetings on Sunday mornings and Thursday afternoons with up to 50 persons, with impacts on the residential neighborhood on street access and parking," spokeswoman Cathy Salcedo said in an email to The Los Angeles Times.

Brad Dacus, an attorney for the Public Justice Institute, said the Fromms live in a semi-rural area and have not caused any parking problems for neighbors.

The city "needed some kind of rational basis to justify their rigid intolerance towards this family for having a Bible study in their home," Dacus told the Times.

He said the Fromms should have their money returned, adding that PJI intends to defend "this family's home Bible study all the way to the US Supreme Court, if necessary."

[teresaq]

If the people walked to the home each session there was probably no problem.

If 2-4 people per car went, how many cars would that be? How much parking availability is there? Did it infringe on their neighbors access, meaning the neighbors extra vehicles that maybe had to be parked on the street, or visitors/family tried to come visit but had to park blocks away?

[Outta Here]

The municipal code clearly states that they would need a conditional use permit for gatherings of 50 persons or more. http://library.municode.com/index.aspx?clientID=16607&stateID=5&statename=California

In my opinion, the fine should hold. They should be required to obtain the permit if they want to continue the large gatherings. It is also my opinion that they would likely do better to establish a building specifically for the purpose of worship, or break their group into 2 or more smaller Bible studies.

[Dottie]

@Aubrey - -

The fine is for more than 50 people.

It is stated that there "were up to" 50 people. So, therefore, why fine?

[phkrause]

I think that's pretty lousy. I've seen gatherings of about the same amount or more for other events.

[John317]

Is there any evidence that people are being selected for a fine because of Bible studies or because they are Christians?

[Outta Here]

@ Dottie - -

The fine is for 50 persons or more.

It is stated that there were "as many as 50 people" and it is stated that there were "up to 50 persons".

I ask, what's so difficult about getting a permit in the first place? There are reasons that municipalities have townhall meetings--and one of them is to approve and/or disapprove of changes to the municipal code. Regardless of whether or not these people have actually read the code, they are responsible for abiding by it.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's great that there are people who want to have and attend bible studies at home! I also think that people (especially people of faith) ought to abide by the laws of the land.

[teresaq]

Could they get a permit?

I still hold that they may not have been considerate of their neighbors in their endeavors to be "holy" so to speak. Too many times we can think we do not need to take others into consideration when doing something religious.

If the people walked to the home each session there was probably no problem.

If 2-4 people per car went, how many cars would that be? How much parking availability is there? Did it infringe on their neighbors access, meaning the neighbors extra vehicles that maybe had to be parked on the street, or visitors/family tried to come visit but had to park blocks away?

[Outta Here]

I think they probably could have obtained a permit (maybe even still--if the fine is paid). Couldn't agree with you more, Teresa, about being considerate of the neighbors. It's really just an issue about being kind and doing the right thing in the first place.

I still don't know about how many cars there were, or if it would have been all right if they'd just walked there instead. There are other things to consider as well--like fire hazards or building weight limits. Normal wear and tear on the streets and sewage systems.

[Overaged]

I think they probably could have obtained a permit (maybe even still--if the fine is paid). Couldn't agree with you more, Teresa, about being considerate of the neighbors. It's really just an issue about being kind and doing the right thing in the first place.

I still don't know about how many cars there were, or if it would have been all right if they'd just walked there instead. There are other things to consider as well--like fire hazards or building weight limits. Normal wear and tear on the streets and sewage systems.

I do know that it doesn't take much to make some neighbors complain these days...

But in this case; there is no reason, no matter who is right, that these people can't just go ahead and get the permit now that they are aware of it.

I don't think these people were fined "for having a Bible study;" they were just nailed on a bylaw infraction. It only takes one neighbor to file such a complaint, and the bylaw officer has no choice but to investigate, and do something, if applicable.

It's a paranoid stretch at best to turn this into a religious freedom thing. Atleast, unless more evidence surfaces to prove otherwise.

[ClubV12]

Sounds like their reasonably far out in the country and parking and traffic are not a "serious" issue. Never the less, render unto Ceaser. In our spiritual walk do we see how close we can come to the line of sin and still be saved? Or do we guard the edges? If the gathering is "near 50" or at times "50 plus" AND if it is bothering the neighbors, remote though they be, a permit is not out of line. If one is not granted there is certainly enough people involved to consider building a church.

Bringing persecution on yourself and then claiming it's in the name of God and taking a stand on it cheapens religion and brings reproof on the Lord. "Though I deliver my body to be burned..." I believe what this means is that some people, sincerely mistaken, would go so far as to offer themselves as martyrs to "prove their point". When in fact it is nothing more than suicide and rank fanaticism. I wonder how many "martyrs" are nothing more than suicide in the eyes of God?

[epaminondas]

The heading of this topic in the email I got was: "CALIFORNIA couple fined for holding Bible study:" This is clearly a sensationalist heading and factually untrue. I'm glad to see most posters realise that this is the case. Exactly how many people attended, how many cars were parked there and the exact nature of the surroundings are not detailed in any way. One must always think one step ahead of the opposition - not give them a legitimate chance to complain or take action. In this case it was obtaining the permit, organising for people to distribute parked cars over a wide area etc. Nobody, not even the attorney representing the Bible study group, suggested that the law didn't apply to them. The heading used was really of tabloid quality, rabble rousing and an example of bad reporting. What about: Bible study group fined for contravening council regulations?

[Tallmark]

If there were 100 jews in someone's house and they were fined, the ADL would be so up in arms it would make your head spin.

[Dr. Shane]

I think it is a zoning issue. If they broke the group in half and met on two different nights there wouldn't be a problem. My neighbors have parties and one across the street has been known to have revival meetings. I am quite sure that the parties and revivals in my neighborhood have well over 50 people and if they were a weekly occurrence, I would probably complain to the city about them too.

Now if it was a church that was built during a time when zoning requirements didn't require on-site parking, it would be a different issue. There are many churches located in old neighborhood residential areas that do not have proper parking. The church we attend on Wednesday evening is exactly like that. It has only space for three cars to park behind it and the rest is on-street parking.