Homeless much?

[ClubV12]

The circumcision thread got me to thinking about times I had almost forgot, being homeless. In good time having a car to live in, in bad times, not even a car. In due time the Lord has blessed with what I consider "decent wealth". You could make a case for those who are "rich" are those who can pay their reasonable bills every month and actually have some money left over. If THATS that standard, I'm stinking rich.

But it wasn't always. I've had to sleep in alleys (Portland Oregon, raining) because I had no place to go. I've been down to my last dollar considering whether to buy gas so I could continue to LOOK for work, or buy food (Mississippi). Found a job with that last dollar of gas money.

I've been wiped out by fire, lost my car, lost my tools, lost my job. No insurance in any way, just "out", done, walk away. That was only ONE example of several times I've been homeless in my life.

Looking back, it made me stronger, more determined to succeed. The Lord (unbeknowest to me) was able to bless me because I was always careful to NEVER take advantage of anyone. I had been there, I KNEW what it was like to be "prey". My investments paid off remarkably well, because I employed a strict code of ethics. Not based on the bible, but based on the reality of life. God speaks to us in many ways, not just from "church".

Today there are many more homeless and thats growing. It is important to recognize the "worthy poor" as opposed to those who will always be poor. Both need help, but you MUST consider how much to help and in what way.

Does anybody actually KNOW any homeless? Have you even been homeless?

[Dottie]

I've been homeless, sleeping in a car with no heat, in February, in Maryland, with snow on the ground, and a six-month-old baby. Hubby liked to take what he could from people and I guess he couldn't find anyone to give him a place to sleep. Not my hubby anymore.

That was 43 years ago.

[ClubV12]

I knew a lot of homeless folks in Hawaii, but I'm not sure that counts.

It aint a bad life and some like it that way (like surfer dudes).

But in Maryland? With snow and a baby? OK, THAT is "homeless"!!

There are varying degrees of homeless, but none of them are easy, life is hard, homeless is harder.

[GoLions]

if you mean, no savings, no job,staying with friends, and any money I got used mostly for drugs with a portion left for food.

No money for a haircut. Feeling lower than dirt. Yup, been there, nothing glamorous about it. But God is good, all the time!

[John317]

I know about being homeless.

I have spent a lot of time with the homeless and with people that used to be called "hobos" and "bums." I've lived on skid row in New Orleans, Omaha, and Chicago, and stayed in the Rescue Missions in many of the cities such as Tucson, San Francisco, Miami and LA. I slept in Central Park.

I've often gone to Los Angeles to photograph and visit with the homeless on skid row there.

See some of my pictures:

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/galleries/407551/Man_At_My_Window.html#comments

If interested, see page 3 of this link:

http://clubadventist.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/165910/3.html

[ClubV12]

At my repair shop in Honolulu I hired several different "street people" to help out as best they could. Sweep, clean, empty garbage, run errands. Really, just to help them out.

One day I had a homeless lady make a delivery for me across town. I helped her get started on the journey. I gave her money for return bus fare. After a LONG while she returned, walked back. She couldn't READ the bus schedule so didn't know what bus to take to get home. She was to embarrased to ask for help. Being in a "strange to her" part of town she didn't know where the restrooms where. She had peed her pants on the walk back to the store as a result. I felt really bad for assuming she was capable of even taking a city bus, something I thought anybody could do.

[John317]

I completely understand. It's very sad to see these people. There are millions of them, especially in the big cities.

I grew up since first grade with two very close friend-- brothers-- who are mentally ill and have been so since we were kids, but their illness is much more pronounced than when they were children. I just returned from visiting them. One of them was my closest friend for most of my life. He thinks that his mother is not really his mother and he believes the Russians put something in his brain to control him. He looks like someone in the Nazi concentration camps, all bones and almost no flesh, just hanging skin. I took him to a restaurant to eat. He chain-smokes while his chest heaves up and down as he struggles to get air.

He was brought up in an SDA home but rejected the health message and the whole notion of God.

[Pockey]

Good threat, thanks for the reminder. You've led me to check this out http://www.whiteestate.org/books/mh/mh12.html

[Gerr]

No, I've never personally known a homeless person. But I know what it is to be poor. As a teenager, I came to this land of opportunity with really nothing. Except perhaps for a few, we all go through a Gethsemane experience, only it's not the same garden.

Thanks for sharing that part of your painful experience. It's true - obstacles that do not break us only make us stronger.

[Gail]

It goes to show why Jesus said we would have the poor with us always. The problem is just so BIG!!

Bless your heart, Clubv12 and those who have been there. You are probably the most suited to know the best way to help.

[joeb]

ClubV12,

Did you set up this topic to discuss homelessness, or the "worthy poor", or a combination of both? I'm just curious as you ""ed worthy poor.

As someone who has been around SDA's all my life I'm very familiar with the term and how it's used in SDA circles. Some of the time it's sort of nebulous, but it can be used as an excuse not to help some people because they aren't "worthy" of our help.

I can think of a few quotes from the Bible and SOP that help define the term, but they seem, to me, to contradict the general SDA point of view of who is "worthy" when thought about carefully. I'll try to pair up Bible and SOP quotes.

1. Matthew 25:31-46

1. Desire of Ages The chapter "The Least of These my Brethren".

2. John 5:1-8

2. Desire of Ages pp 201 - 203, although the entire chapter is great.

3. Luke 4:31-35

3. Desire of Ages pp 255 para 2 - 256 para 4

There are several more pairs from the DofA and the Bible. but I'd like to point out a short quote from elsewhere and what it implies about who the "worthy poor" are.

The following is from Counsels to the Church p 264 para 4

"God wants His people to reveal to a sinful world that He has not left them to perish. Special pains should be taken to help those who for the truth’s sake are cast out from their homes and are obliged to suffer. More and more there will be need of large, open, generous hearts, those who will deny self and will take hold of the cases of these very ones whom the Lord loves. The poor among God’s people must not be left without provision for their wants. Some way must be found whereby they may obtain a livelihood. Some will need to be taught to work. Others who work hard and are taxed to the utmost of their ability to support their families will need special assistance. We should take an interest in these cases and help them to secure employment. There should be a fund to aid such worthy poor families who love God and keep His commandments."

Notice especially the sentence I bolded. Think about the type of relationship you must have with an adult to be able to teach them to work and not offend them, and how that person is viewed by society. They are adults yet still don't know how to work. They've never been able to hold down a job in their life, and we are to be patient enough with them to take them under our wing and teach them how to do that. That's a very difficult task that requires a lot of time and patience, and most likely a fair expenditure of our own funds too.

In Spiritual Gifts, vol 2 page 235 she says the rich should cut their prices to, and raise the wages for, the afflicted, widows, and worthy poor among them. Interesting advice that I don't know that I've ever seen followed.

I brought all this up because of how you tied homelessness and "worthy poor" together in your post. I think the story of the Good Samaritan also does a very good job of addressing this. How did he know just who he was helping, and whether or not he was helping someone who was "worthy" of being helped? Isn't the first half of the Law kept by loving our "neighbor" as ourselves, and hasn't the question of who our neighbor is already been answered? Jesus, in who he helped in the examples I gave seems to agree that the definition of who is "worthy" of being helped is pretty inclusive.

BTW, I've been homeless before. I lived out of my car for a while until a friend heard about what had happened the first time. The second time I, my wife, and kids, had to live with my in-laws when both my wife's and my job collapsed out from beneath us in a 2 week period.

I've been fortunate to have had a friend who helped or I too would have had to sleep in an alley in Oregon.

[Gerr]

Bro. Joeb, may I ask how long you both were out of a job, and how you maintained your faith in God?

[ClubV12]

Good points Joeb. I got the term "worthy poor" for doing a bit of a study on ways to help the "poor" from Sister White. This is something I've been involved in for years and was looking for inspired counsel on the subject. From that, I see I've made a lot of mistakes in the past. "Homeless" and "poor" are relative terms, not always easy to define.

"Worthy poor" from Pauls and Ellen White perspective are widows, orphans, handicapped and others of this nature. People who are really struggling through no fault of their own. They need long term help and it can get quite complicated in how to apply it. Other "worthy poor" would be those (like myself more than once) who need a hand up, not a hand out. Just gimme a chance, a small loan maybe, some help fixing my car, even a meal! I can carry the load, but I need some temporary help real bad, right now. How do you know who fits this category and who is really just looking for a hand out, not a hand up? Tough call, sometimes your going to get it wrong, but that should NOT stop you from trying to help. Just get a little smarter and learn from it.

Sister White said we are NOT called to open alcoholic treatment centers. I'm not sure why, but it makes some sense. That group and drug users require some seriously trained individuals. The average church member should indeed stay at arms length, the "danger" could be very real. I would not be quick to classify this group as the "worthy poor". Never the less, I won't turn my back on them altogether either, but "help" must be carefully applied. I've been robbed by people I've tried to help to much from this group. That doesn't stop me, but it sure makes me more cautious. Wise like serpants, harmless as doves I think is the advice?

A "semi homeless" lady called the church awhile back, she had car trouble. Needed two tires right away, car wouldn't start and she HAD to move the car off the property. The church supplied funds for the tires, I helped her get them mounted, got her car fixed (I was an ASE certified mechanic for years). More important than replacing the tires I gave the car a "broom stick and tape measure" alignment in the parking lot. Her alignment was SO bad the new tires would have worn out in no time. I still stay in touch with her, not for "bible study", just to keep in touch. How you doing? Whats going on? Are you making it? Looking for work? She's "worthy", she's doing OK. Shes REALLY THANKFUL for that alignment, her tires are still good and they never lasted this long before. Thats a big load off her mind.

Then there was that guy on drugs who had SUCH a sad story I offered him a room in my house till he could get back on his feet. Robbed me blind and got arrested for drugs. Cops all over my house, nightmare.... I SHOULD have known better, but his "sad story" was really well rehearsed. I bought it hook, line and sinker and I KNOW BETTER!!! Some of these people are experts at the con game.

For me, now that I have a "home base church" the worthy poor starts first with the people in my church. Those who can't afford to send their kids to our schools. Their car is broke down. They missed last months rent. Plenty need help right here in my own neighborhood, in my own church. But I don't neglect those who aren't in church, just gotta prioritize at some point because the needs are so great.

For those who don't know: This month is my "aniversary". It was one year ago when I first walked into an evangelistic series not far from my house. I got a post card thing in the mail and because the meeting were so close, I thought I would attend them. Wow, the changes in my life in the last year are beyond profound. The Lord is good.

At one point I was ready to walk out, but the evangelist, Bryon McMahon said I couldn't!!!! He said I had been there to long now, I was a "survivor" and there was no turning back. Strangely, that was what I needed to hear at the time.

[joeb]

Bro. Joeb, may I ask how long you both were out of a job, and how you maintained your faith in God?

I've been out of work a few times. The longest was a 3 year stretch when I just couldn't find anything. I interviewed many times and came down to 1 of the last 2 in the running for the job a bunch of times, but the job always went to someone else.

My wife and I were out of work for close to 6 months, to answer your question more directly. I was a druggie at the time so God wasn't a part of my life then. I just self-medicated that time.

To answer the 2nd part of your question, to hold onto my faith in God during times of unemployment can be an issue, but yet it really isn't for me. I can't really give you a better explanation than the following.

Jesus said that as long as we are following Him in all things He will abide with us. I know what it's like to have Him abide with me, and when He's abiding with me everything is all right with the world. Jesus called being tight with Him perfect love, and I can tell you from experience that it really does cast out all fear.

However, if I go my own direction, that peace is gone and things like unemployment are hard for me to deal with. All I can do is get very serious about my relationship with Him once again. I don't know, but maybe He sends me these troubles because it's the only way I will stay close to Him as by nature I'm not a person to confide or place trust in others and can be pretty arrogant.

I guess my only advice to you, if you're confronting this for the first time in your life, is to be like the paralytic that had his friends break up the rooftop so He could see Jesus. His greatest desire was to have his sins forgiven, and when Jesus told him his sins were forgiven He was so at peace he could have calmly accepted death at that moment.

Just get so close to Jesus that there's nothing holding the two of you apart. Make your relationship with Him your first priority--being right with Him--and this world's issues get a lot smaller because you know He is there with you. Remember Luke 12: 6,7.

I know this because God has gotten me through times that make extended unemployment, as shattering as it can be, look like a cake walk to me. I got through those times by having God's abiding presence with me. For me, abiding with my best friend Jesus is the only remedy for really serious troubles.

[joeb]

Good points Joeb. I got the term "worthy poor" for doing a bit of a study on ways to help the "poor" from Sister White. This is something I've been involved in for years and was looking for inspired counsel on the subject. From that, I see I've made a lot of mistakes in the past. "Homeless" and "poor" are relative terms, not always easy to define.

"Worthy poor" from Pauls and Ellen White perspective are widows, orphans, handicapped and others of this nature. People who are really struggling through no fault of their own. They need long term help and it can get quite complicated in how to apply it. Other "worthy poor" would be those (like myself more than once) who need a hand up, not a hand out. Just gimme a chance, a small loan maybe, some help fixing my car, even a meal! I can carry the load, but I need some temporary help real bad, right now. How do you know who fits this category and who is really just looking for a hand out, not a hand up? Tough call, sometimes your going to get it wrong, but that should NOT stop you from trying to help. Just get a little smarter and learn from it.

Sister White said we are NOT called to open alcoholic treatment centers. I'm not sure why, but it makes some sense. That group and drug users require some seriously trained individuals. The average church member should indeed stay at arms length, the "danger" could be very real. I would not be quick to classify this group as the "worthy poor". Never the less, I won't turn my back on them altogether either, but "help" must be carefully applied. I've been robbed by people I've tried to help to much from this group. That doesn't stop me, but it sure makes me more cautious. Wise like serpants, harmless as doves I think is the advice?

A "semi homeless" lady called the church awhile back, she had car trouble. Needed two tires right away, car wouldn't start and she HAD to move the car off the property. The church supplied funds for the tires, I helped her get them mounted, got her car fixed (I was an ASE certified mechanic for years). More important than replacing the tires I gave the car a "broom stick and tape measure" alignment in the parking lot. Her alignment was SO bad the new tires would have worn out in no time. I still stay in touch with her, not for "bible study", just to keep in touch. How you doing? Whats going on? Are you making it? Looking for work? She's "worthy", she's doing OK. Shes REALLY THANKFUL for that alignment, her tires are still good and they never lasted this long before. Thats a big load off her mind.

Then there was that guy on drugs who had SUCH a sad story I offered him a room in my house till he could get back on his feet. Robbed me blind and got arrested for drugs. Cops all over my house, nightmare.... I SHOULD have known better, but his "sad story" was really well rehearsed. I bought it hook, line and sinker and I KNOW BETTER!!! Some of these people are experts at the con game.

For me, now that I have a "home base church" the worthy poor starts first with the people in my church. Those who can't afford to send their kids to our schools. Their car is broke down. They missed last months rent. Plenty need help right here in my own neighborhood, in my own church. But I don't neglect those who aren't in church, just gotta prioritize at some point because the needs are so great.

For those who don't know: This month is my "aniversary". It was one year ago when I first walked into an evangelistic series not far from my house. I got a post card thing in the mail and because the meeting were so close, I thought I would attend them. Wow, the changes in my life in the last year are beyond profound. The Lord is good.

At one point I was ready to walk out, but the evangelist, Bryon McMahon said I couldn't!!!! He said I had been there to long now, I was a "survivor" and there was no turning back. Strangely, that was what I needed to hear at the time.

That was a well-thought-out post, ClubV12.

I think we also need to remember that Jesus passed through entire towns and villages and there wasn't a sick person left when He left. He didn't fail to heal the con artists just because they were con artists.

I've thought a lot about this subject, and read a lot about it. I've also been inside the drug culture here in the US and realize just how many con artists there are.

I've helped whenever I had resources and felt impressed to do so. I've given away all I had in my wallet to hitch hikers and been scolded roundly for it by those around me. But, my thought on this has always been, I'm giving to Jesus by helping someone else. He asks that of me so who am I to judge? I've never felt badly, nor that I've done something wrong, by helping someone. If they misused my help, well, that's on their head, not mine.

I look at it like I look at giving funds to a church that is possibly misusing funds. When I give, I'm giving to Jesus, and if someone else misuses those funds that's on their head. I did my best and followed my Lord. That's my duty and I must do my duty.

I've been on the recieving end of being judged more than a few times so I know exactly how it feels. I don't like that feeling and really don't think making someone else experience that same feeling for being in need is a good thing. Don't get me wrong, if I know someone is a con artist and deeply into drugs that the drugs do a lot of talking for them and I get cautious. My wife's nephew is one of those "type" and there is no way I would let him live into my home to stay. He's proven he lies constantly and steals from whomever he stays with. But, if he were ever to have a change of heart I'd help him all I could.

I know very few others would. I don't blame them. I just know how difficult a road it is make that type of change and how many obstacles get thrown in your way because of who you used to be.