The dance of life

[Tom Wetmore]

One can forgive. One can repent. Two must reconcile.

[Gail]

That is true! That miracle is better than either repentance or forgiveness, because it is a combining and completeness of the two.

[teresaq]

Amen to that!! It also raises the question as to what true forgiveness is. And what true repentance is.

I can forgive 7 x 70 but that does not cause the other person to repent. Repentance meaning, as I understand it, acknowledging that s/he actually did wrong and wishes to not do it again.

Which is different from the situation where a person comes to realize something they are doing is wrong yet slips time and again.

And a person can truly repent but that does not mean the offended will forgive.

[Overaged]

Read Steps To Christ, chapter 7, Test Of Discipleship.

[Overaged]

Does "reconcile" mean agree?

[Tom Wetmore]

That's a good question. I think it likely depends on the nature of the rift for which forgiveness and repentance are needed upon which reconciliation can be built. But every example that comes to my mind suggests it may not always be completely necessary. Two may agree that the point on which they quarreled is eclipsed by more important things, that they both can reach a compromise with which they can both be comfortable short of complete agreement, or that the disagreement is a helpful tension in their relationship to keep them both in check. Ultimately, a realization can be reached that the relationship is the most important consideration notwithstanding disagreement on some details.

[Overaged]

Hey; you and I will have to do some of that 'reconcile" stuff. I see I quoted above; but I honestly didn't note what forum this topic was in when I joined it.

But you know; I liked the way you expressed this how that we don't always have to see eye to eye, or agree on many things, in order to repent/reconcile.

Now, the question is; what will you demand of me to "show repentance" for not obeying the rules here. (accidentally disobeying).

[Tom Wetmore]

Pay it forward...

[Overaged]

Alright Tom - that must be some sort of "American" expression that backwards Canadians like me do not understand. What does pay it forward mean?

[Overaged]

Are forgiveness and repentance necessary in order to build reconciliation?

Sounds like you are referring to a peace-building process? Reconciliation - for Christians, should mean a committment to Biblical conflict resolution.

This is a subject that eludes me a bit - when I think "conflict resolution;" I am often reminded of the text that says:

Jawbone of an ass; I've slain a thousand men...Samson had the gift of assertiveness.

And isn't there a place for assertiveness in reconciliation? Obviously; we are not *usually* going to pull a jawbone out of our back pocket - but where does the repentance and forgiveness fit in with building reconciliation?

I can't remember where I heard them; but the four G's of peace-making, are Glorify God, Get the log out of your eye, Gentley restore, and Go and be reconciled... Perhaps we should be assertive/persistent with these four G's? Ahhh what do I know - just thinking out loud...

[Overaged]

A person can truly repent; only if they truly forgive. Your forgiveness is not *usually* supposed to prompt the other offended party to forgive is it?

Four key components of forgiveness are (IMHO)

1/ I will not dwell on this incident

2/ I will not bring this incident up again and use it against you.

3/ I will not talk to others about this incident

4/ I will not allow this incident to stand between us or ruin any personal relationship we could have

[Tom Wetmore]

Paying it forward -

Instead of returning a favor or act of kindness to the benefactor it is the practice of passing the favor or act of kindness on to someone else to express gratitude as a means of spreading goodness. There was a movie by that name. A young boy presented this as a class project on how to change the world. So instead of saying "You're welcome" just say, "Pay it forward." Instead of just saying thank-you, do a good deed for someone else and ask them to pay it forward.

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes, reconciliation is peacemaking. And yes, both forgiveness and repentance are essential prerequisites to reconciliation. When we started the blame game about who started the fight when I was a kid, my dad would always say it takes two to fight, but only one to stop it. The positive side of that was that it also took two to start playing nicely again. It requires effort on both sides of a conflict to bring about reconciliation.

When a wrong is done, if the offender repents and mends his ways but the offended does not forgive, there remains a barrier between them just as much as if it is the other way around. The offense may not be repeated, but the spirit of unforgiveness prevents reconciliation. Without sincere effort on both sides, the conflict just remains dormant. At its heart, forgiveness is giving up ones right to get even, settle the score, to get revenge. Until that desire for justice is relinquished, it is only a matter of time before an act of revenge happens and the conflict is alive again.

[Tom Wetmore]

The old eye for an eye sense of justice or the jawbone of an ass approach may put an end to the conflict, temporarily. But it tends to breed resentment. The score is not felt as truly evened, so resentment breeds revenge and things only escalate.

I am finding evidence of a more Biblical concept of justice as being setting things right rather than punishing evil doers. Rather than an eye for an eye, restore sight to the blinded one. Rather than killing the killer, raise the dead to life.

That sense of justice works better where forgiveness happens. And it works best where repentance also happens.

[Overaged]

You know; I agree with much of what you said on this subject...have you noticed how much more time and effort the reconciliation/peace-making approach takes than the jawbone approach? it's so much quicker to just get the jawbone out...

[Overaged]

OK; I get it. Pay it forward may be better known here in Canada as "give a little bit back." I know the movie you are talking about as I have seen it too. Do you remember the name of it? That was a great movie!

[Overaged]

Your analogy from when you were a kid is well applied here. If it always takes two to fight, and only one to stop it, what would be an example, in our current day, in a church setting, where we could apply it? How do we play nicely at Church/in church, how do we, as individuals build a culture of peace at church, or here on the forum?

[phkrause]

LOL OA, I just watched it again the other day and I can't remember the name either. Ah memory is such a great thing. LOL

[Overaged]

I think we actually have the movie somewhere on an old VHS Video. I will look.

[Gail]

Tom said the movie was of that name in his post... I saw it, too- seem to remember Helen Hunt being in it.

[Tom Wetmore]

Yep. Read all about it - Pay It Forward

Interesting footnote - James Caviezel played a homeless man in the movie. He must have been typecast. He later plays another homeless man in The Passion of the Christ. Ironically he is now playing a character that, although presumed dead, saves people from their own fate in the CBS drama Person of Interest. The people he helps are deemed irrelevant by the system...

[Overaged]

I like the way the article calls it a charitable pyramid scheme - referring to the act of paying it forward.