Why do we follow the 10 commandments?

[barnz]

Since Jesus paid the price for our sins, why do we still need to follow the 10 commandments? Most Christians will argue that the commandments are part of the law and with Christ, we no longer need the law. Romans is full of verses that seem to support this.

This is one of many articles that explains why we don't need to follow the 10 commandments.

http://bethelministries.com/ten_commandments.htm

So why do we follow the 10 commandments? How do you explain the verses listed in the article?

[ClubV12]

James is the counter point to Paul! Faith AND works.

[barnz]

James is the counter point to Paul! Faith AND works.

Okay, now don't say it like that. You imply the Bible contradicts itself. The solution is the proper way to understand Paul. So what is Paul really saying?

[Windsor]

alex: If the law could be done away with then there was no need for Christ to die for us. The law isn't something arbitrary that God came up with to restrict our freedom. You can try to remove murder and stealing from our own laws for example and see the result with your own eyes.

[barnz]

alex: If the law could be done away with then there was no need for Christ to die for us. The law isn't something arbitrary that God came up with to restrict our freedom. You can try to remove murder and stealing from our own laws for example and see the result with your own eyes.

The argument is that the law was meant for us to follow before Christ came. The law was like our Guardian until it was no longer needed. Paul uses the analogy that we were like children and the law was our guardian until we came of age (when Christ comes). When he came, the guardian was no longer needed. Galations 3:23-29, Galations 4:1-7.

Paul explained that the law was given 430 years after the covenant, so the law was obviously not needed to maintain that.(Gelations 3:15-20).

The laws of Moses were the only way the Jews knew how they could keep their covenant with God. It is impossible for man to keep all of the laws and so because we sin, we are spiritually dead. However, by having faith in Jesus, he gives us life. It is not the laws that saves us, but it is the grace of God. The law was only a temporary guideline that pointed out what we did wrong, but with the advent of Christ, it is no longer necessary.

This is the argument. What say you?!

[12tribes]

Romans 8:1-4

(1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

(2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

(3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

(4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

These are good verses which says that we are no longer under the law of sin and death. If we are in Christ then the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us but, if we are not in Christ then we are under the law of sin and death.

[barnz]

Romans 8:1-4

(1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

(2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

(3) For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

(4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

These are good verses which says that we are no longer under the law of sin and death. If we are in Christ then the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us but, if we are not in Christ then we are under the law of sin and death.

Hey! You're not helping! We already have verses to seem to prove this side, what we need is the SDA argument for these verses. Or maybe becoming an SDA was the wrong choice

[skyblue888]

Originally Posted By: ClubV12

James is the counter point to Paul! Faith AND works.

Okay, now don't say it like that. You imply the Bible contradicts itself. The solution is the proper way to understand Paul. So what is Paul really saying?

Paul and James do not contradict each other. Both understood that it is not faith and works that avails with God or faith without works but faith which works (Gal.5:6) because this faith which is the only true faith lays right hold of the merits of Christ by claiming them and that brings the love of God in the soul and the love of God in the soul is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. (Rom.13:10; Rom.5:5) James stated this same truth by saying that the works of obedience wrought by the Holy Spirit in and through us will demonstrate that we have the right faith, the genuine article.

To those who fancied that faith in Christ made obedience to the law no more necessary, the Holy Spirit, through Paul, said, "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid; yea, we establish the law." Rom.3:31.

The people who lived in Old Testament times were also to be saved by grace, by the grace of the Holy Spirit which they could obtain by trusting wholly in the merits of a Saviour to come. This was the faith of Abraham. It was also the faith of Adam after the fall. This faith is the only true faith which was taught them through the sanctuary service:

"Through the sacrifices and offerings brought to the earthly sanctuary, the children of Israel were to lay hold of the merits of a Saviour to come." Spiritual Gifts, Vol.1, 161.

This is the faith of the true disciples of Christ in all ages of the world but especially in these last days. (Rev.14:12)

sky

[barnz]

Quote:

Paul and James do not contradict each other. Both understood that it is not faith and works that avails with God or faith without works but faith which works (Gal.5:6) because this faith which is the only true faith lays right hold of the merits of Christ by claiming them and that brings the love of God in the soul and the love of God in the soul is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. (Rom.13:10; Rom.5:5) James stated this same truth by saying that the works of obedience wrought by the Holy Spirit in and through us will demonstrate that we have the right faith, the genuine article.

So this leads us for a need of clarification for the 19th fundamental belief. Should we rely on our faith and pray that the holy spirit will influence us to follow the commandments? Or should we make a conscious effort to follow the commandments?

[12tribes]

We follow the 10 commandments because we love God

John 14:15

(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Ephesians 2:8-10

(8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

(9) Not of works, lest any man should boast.

(10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

[skyblue888]

Alex, true faith lays right hold of the merits of Christ because God receives us to Himself only through the merits of the suffering endured to reconcile man to God. This faith brings the grace of the Holy Spirit into the heart and thus the love of God is diffused through the whole being. This love is a vitalizing power. Every vital part, the brain, the heart, the nerves, it touches with healing. It frees the soul from the guilt and sorrow, the anxiety and care that crush the life forces. By it the highest energies of the being are roused to activity. With it come serenity and composure. It implants in the soul a joy that nothing earthly can destroy, joy in the Holy Spirit, life-giving, health-giving joy. It fills up the measure of the law's requirements, as long as we continue in this faith. It is a living faith that connects us to God.

This is righteousness by faith for righteousness is love and love is the light and the life of God and it is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God because the righteousness of Christ accomplishes everything. It imparts all the powers, all the penitence, all the inclination, all the grace, all the pardon of sin.

sky

[barnz]

Now we have reached the final controversial question. Many of those who have faith in Jesus do not feel the need to follow the 10 commandments. They may not necessarily be influenced by the Holy Spirit because in their head, they believe it is not a big deal if the 10 commandments are constantly broken since Jesus has saved them for their sins.

Will these people, who openly declare their faith in Jesus, who truly believe that he is their savior, but also believe that there is no need for the 10 commandments, will they be saved?

[skyblue888]

This is the "once saved always saved" theory that is prevailing in much of Christendom today. If one is not delivered from this fatal error he will go on in darkness and lose his eternal life.

sky

[skyblue888]

A Christian does not have to be reminded to follow the 10 commandments. He keeps them because He is actuated by the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of Christ is subject to every jot and tittle of the ten commandments. An apple tree yields apples because it is an apple tree. It can't help but yield apples because it is the nature of the apple tree to yield apples. The Christian is a partaker of the divine nature. In him divinity and humanity are combined through faith in the merits of the Redeemer.

"The law of the human and the divine action makes the receiver a laborer together with God. It brings man where he can, united with divinity, work the works of God." E.G. White, Faith & Works, p.27.

"Satan had claimed that it was impossible for man to obey God's commandments; and in our own strength it is true that we cannot obey them. But Christ came in the form of humanity, and by His perfect obedience He proved that humanity and divinity combined can obey every one of God's precepts... When a soul receives Christ, he receives power to live the life of Christ... The life of Christ on earth was a perfect expression of God's law." Christ Object Lessons, 314,315.

This is accomplished only as we become one with Christ.

"The only condition upon which the freedom of man is possible is that of becoming one with Christ." Desire of Ages,466.

We become one with Him through simple faith, by laying right hold upon the merits of His shed blood. (Rom.3:25)

This is our lifebusiness.

Do you believe this Alex?

sky

[John317]

The Ten Commandments are needed by everyone who is living contrary to them. They are like the laws anywhere else: they are primarily for those who violate them. If we're obeying God's law because of the Spirit in our life, we don't need to look at the law. But if we find ourselves doing what the law says we shouldn't do, then we need to be made aware of God's law so that we will know we are doing wrong.

The law is like a mirror. It tells us when we are dirty and need cleansing. The mirror can't clean us up, but it does tell us we're dirty and need cleansing. Jesus is the cleanser.

If we get rid of the mirror, we're in big trouble because we won't know we're dirty and will walk around thinking we're clean when we're not.

Study the following verses:

1 Tim. 1:8-11

Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, [9] understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, [10] the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, [11] in accordance with the glorious gospel of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

James 1:22-25

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. [23] For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. [24] For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. [25] But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.

Galatians 3:24

So then, the law was our guardian to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

[skyblue888]

"The law is like a mirror. It tells us when we are dirty and need cleansing. The mirror can't clean us up, but it does tell us we're dirty and need cleansing. Jesus is the cleanser."

John317.

__________________

I remember hearing this in a prayer meeting more than 35 years ago. I agreed with it completely but it did not tell me how Jesus can be the cleanser. These words "Jesus is the cleanser" need to be qualified because to many of us it is only a mere cliche, just like another cliche that is very popular, "Have you received Jesus as your personal Saviour?"

How is Jesus the cleanser? How do we receive Him as a personal Saviour?

In the Testimonies the Lord qualifies these cliches.

"Jesus is the cleanser."

"By faith take hold of the merits of Christ and the soul-cleansing blood will be applied." Faith and Works,96.

"Have you received Jesus as your personal Saviour?"

"The only faith that will benefit us is that which embraces Him as a personal Saviour: which appropriates His merits to ourselves." D.A.347.

I know you agree with these statements John but I never want to lose precious opportunities to share these inspired commentaries which go a long way in explaining what would otherwise be little understood.

Right?

sky

[John317]

The cleansing comes from repentence, confession, and forgiveness through the blood of Christ:

1 John 1:9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Rev. 7:14

I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

[barnz]

To Sky:

Sadly, I do not believe what you say about people who believe in Christ can't help but follow the 10 commandments. In fact, the majority of Christians claim that BECAUSE they believe in Christ, they DO NOT need the 10 commandments. Do you believe otherwise?

To John:

Yes, we let the Holy Spirit influence us to Christ-like behavior, and it would be good if all Christians prayed for that. Ultimately, it is our faith and not works that save us, however...

The question still stands...

ARE THE MAJORITY OF CHRISTIANS WHO BELIEVE THAT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE IRRELEVANT TO THEIR SALVATION SAVED?

[Guest]

ARE THE MAJORITY OF CHRISTIANS WHO BELIEVE THAT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE IRRELEVANT TO THEIR SALVATION SAVED?

Nobody still alive on this sinful earth has been saved yet. When you make it out of this sinful world, either at the second coming, (which we believe is near) or at death, then you will have been saved.

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Paul said:

1Co 9:27 Instead, I discipline my body and bring it under strict control, so that after preaching to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

He knew the race wasn't over yet.

Also, where is it in the Bible that believing in Jesus makes the commandments irrelevant?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him.... but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rev 22:14,15 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and fornicators, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loves and makes a lie.

[doug yowell]

The question still stands...

ARE THE MAJORITY OF CHRISTIANS WHO BELIEVE THAT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE IRRELEVANT TO THEIR SALVATION SAVED?

Saved from what?

[phkrause]

ARE THE MAJORITY OF CHRISTIANS WHO BELIEVE THAT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE IRRELEVANT TO THEIR SALVATION SAVED?

No one knows only God. And I'm in agreement with RLHs post.

[phkrause]

Nobody still alive on this sinful earth has been saved yet. When you make it out of this sinful world, either at the second coming, (which we believe is near) or at death, then you will have been saved.

Excellent point

[barnz]

Originally Posted By: alexamasan

ARE THE MAJORITY OF CHRISTIANS WHO BELIEVE THAT THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE IRRELEVANT TO THEIR SALVATION SAVED?

No one knows only God.

You know, I was about to rephrase my question to make it more clear, however, pkrause made me realize I've been asking you guys to judge those who die thinking they can sin all they want and it's completely okay. I can only pray that I will be resurrected at the 2nd coming, because only God knows if my faith is strong enough to receive his grace.

However, most of the Christians I know who are not SDAs usually have an attitude that as long as you have faith, your sins do not matter (they hint that you can go crazy and live it up).

[Lysimachus]

A Christian does not have to be reminded to follow the 10 commandments. He keeps them because He is actuated by the Spirit of Christ and the Spirit of Christ is subject to every jot and tittle of the ten commandments. An apple tree yields apples because it is an apple tree. It can't help but yield apples because it is the nature of the apple tree to yield apples. The Christian is a partaker of the divine nature. In him divinity and humanity are combined through faith in the merits of the Redeemer.

"The law of the human and the divine action makes the receiver a laborer together with God. It brings man where he can, united with divinity, work the works of God." E.G. White, Faith & Works, p.27.

"Satan had claimed that it was impossible for man to obey God's commandments; and in our own strength it is true that we cannot obey them. But Christ came in the form of humanity, and by His perfect obedience He proved that humanity and divinity combined can obey every one of God's precepts... When a soul receives Christ, he receives power to live the life of Christ... The life of Christ on earth was a perfect expression of God's law." Christ Object Lessons, 314,315.

This is accomplished only as we become one with Christ.

"The only condition upon which the freedom of man is possible is that of becoming one with Christ." Desire of Ages,466.

We become one with Him through simple faith, by laying right hold upon the merits of His shed blood. (Rom.3:25)

This is our lifebusiness.

Do you believe this Alex?

sky

I couldn't have worded it better myself. I think one day I will steel your wording to help another soul. :)

[Lysimachus]

The Ten Commandments are needed by everyone who is living contrary to them. They are like the laws anywhere else: they are primarily for those who violate them. If we're obeying God's law because of the Spirit in our life, we don't need to look at the law. But if we find ourselves doing what the law says we shouldn't do, then we need to be made aware of God's law so that we will know we are doing wrong.

The law is like a mirror. It tells us when we are dirty and need cleansing. The mirror can't clean us up, but it does tell us we're dirty and need cleansing. Jesus is the cleanser.

If we get rid of the mirror, we're in big trouble because we won't know we're dirty and will walk around thinking we're clean when we're not.

Study the following verses:

1 Tim. 1:8-11

Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, [9] understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, [10] the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine, [11] in accordance with the glorious gospel of the blessed God with which I have been entrusted.

James 1:22-25

But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. [23] For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. [24] For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. [25] But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.

Galatians 3:24

So then, the law was our guardian to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

SUPER!!!