Complete Vatican document laying groundwork for coming Sunday Law

[Lysimachus]

Michael Scheifler on his BibleLight.net news page has updated us with a link to the complete Vatican document that lays the groundwork for the coming Sunday Law.

This is scary.

Catecheses - THE FAMILY: WORK AND CELEBRATION

Preparatory Catecheses for the Seventh World Meeting of Families (Milan, May 30 - June 3, 2012)

[skyblue888]

The pope is not the one to bring the coming Sunday Law but Apostate Protestantism is. The pope right now can do nothing except may be work from behind the scenes. The Sunday Law will not come from Rome but from the United States. You know that Lysi, don't u?

sky

[ClubV12]

I think your both on target here. We know it will first come from the USA. You can bet the Pope will be a major player in that decision, of course initially working behind the scenes. As has been the case since about 1929 or so when the "deadly wound" was substantially healed.

[skyblue888]

Club, there was no wound healed in 1929. All that the papacy got back at that time was a piece of land. For the wound to be healed it will take much more than that, it will mean that she has regained her supremacy which she lost in 1798. We are not there yet. This won't happen without the help of Apostate Protestantism in the US.

sky

[ClubV12]

Well again, were both on the same target here Sky. 1929 was a bench mark year for the healing of the wound, the Papacy gathering power continues. As it will until it reaches epic proportions on a world wide scale.

Notice in my post I said "substantially healed", I think thats an accurate assessment, all though, the point could be labored over.

[Lysimachus]

I suppose you could say the wound has been "healing" (ING!) since 1929, but it was NOT "heaLED" in 1929.

All that's left is for the stitches to be removed.

And yes, I know that Sky. But this shows you just how much behind the scenes they are in pushing for Sunday. The first Beast, the Papacy will be pushing for Sunday, but it will be the United States to first enforce it, and then all other nations will follow.

[skyblue888]

Honestly though I have real difficulty seeing how the wound has been healing since 1929 and certainly not lately with all the pedophile scandals coming to the surface. The wound has only been festering and now the king of the south is pushing at him like never before. The papacy has seen better days, to be sure.

sky

[skyblue888]

"The pacific tone of Rome in the United States does not imply a change of heart. She is tolerant where she is helpless... Let the restraints now imposed by secular governments be removed and Rome be reinstated in her former power, and there would speedily be a revival of her tyranny and persecution." G.C.565,564.

When these restraints are removed, and they will be, Rome will be reinstated in her former power. Then and only then will her wound be healed.

sky

[ClubV12]

As terrible as the apparent damage to the RCC has been of late, I believe it's little more than a bump in the road when it comes to their influence with Governments and people of power. Almost time for the "stiches" to come out, the wound is healing nicely. :)

[skyblue888]

Club, you are saying that all of these scandals that have plagued the Catholic Church lately are "a little more than a bump in the road"

On eqhd the other nite while I was watching this program on Religion vs Atheism they were talking about how her churches are being emptied and how they were forced to sell many of their buildings.

Does the word "helpless" mean anything anymore?

She is helpless right now and will remain so until she regains her power but that won't be until the constitution of the United States is amended or done away with and church and state unite to enforce her child, Sunday worship. Then her wound will be healed, not before. Of course that means that Apostate Protestantism will give her power to the beast and that every country on the globe will follow the example of Apostate Protestantism. They will make an image to the beast and give their power to the Pope.

sky

[skyblue888]

In The Great Controversy, p.581, we read:

"God's word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever shall believe and obey the word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution."

This was happening while she was writing the book (1858) but prophecy was not fulfilled then when it should have. There has been a long delay since the rejection of the 1888 message and since then the king of the south has been gaining strength left and right and now he is pushing at the king of the north like never before while the latter is being plagued by intestinal scandals teetering on the brink of a precipice. Yet the king of the north will be revived and the whole world will be in admiration behind him.

sky

[ClubV12]

We could, of course, consider and debate the circumstances and current power base of the RCC for much time. But again, I think all of us on this thread are in general agreement of the big picture.

I really do think the scandals surrounding the RCC currently are, in the big picture, a bump in the road. As it concerns the RCC world influence with Governments and world leaders. I have seen nothing in the news that indicates a substantial loss of respect, influence or ability to counsel with the worlds major players over all these scandals.

Now compare that to a world leader or a candidate for a political office. If he or she were even near the edge of such a scandal, they would be toast, the impact would be huge. Somehow, for the most part, the Pope maintains a certain dignity, even gaining sympathy, through all this. At the local levels, the individual church members, perhaps their eyes have been opened. For the common man, this is an opportunity to think this through.

[miz3]

We could, of course, consider and debate the circumstances and current power base of the RCC for much time. But again, I think all of us on this thread are in general agreement of the big picture.

I really do think the scandals surrounding the RCC currently are, in the big picture, a bump in the road. As it concerns the RCC world influence with Governments and world leaders. I have seen nothing in the news that indicates a substantial loss of respect, influence or ability to counsel with the worlds major players over all these scandals.

Now compare that to a world leader or a candidate for a political office. If he or she were even near the edge of such a scandal, they would be toast, the impact would be huge. Somehow, for the most part, the Pope maintains a certain dignity, even gaining sympathy, through all this. At the local levels, the individual church members, perhaps their eyes have been opened. For the common man, this is an opportunity to think this through.

SDA chaos concerning what Ellen White says? Also the misapplication of the Biblical "deadly wound".

SDA need to get your act together.

Constant date setting and date applying and then having to adjust those dates as History marches on. The 1929 date now bites the dust. What date is next?

Examples, "sun darkened date", stars falling date, the San Fran earthquake, etc. etc.

So much for historical dates matching prophecy. This is so typical of SDA and their historicist methods. They keep getting caught its like 1844 repeating and repeating again and again. Only this time no "cornfield" Hiram Edsen to bail them out with some phony excuse.

How many times do SDA have to miss before they get the point?

[ClubV12]

Actually, the 1929 date is confirmed, it's relevance could be considered, but the date itself stands as a "land mark" (is that a pun?) event.

The deadly wound, in 1798 is also confirmed, no debate there. The question is, how much has the wound healed? There is no "chaos" in the belief it WILL be healed in it's entirety. No one is setting a date for that finallity in any regard.

[miz3]

Actually, the 1929 date is confirmed, it's relevance could be considered, but the date itself stands as a "land mark" (is that a pun?) event.

The deadly wound, in 1798 is also confirmed, no debate there. The question is, how much has the wound healed? There is no "chaos" in the belief it WILL be healed in it's entirety. No one is setting a date for that finallity in any regard.

Not only do SDA move dates and make weak excuses for their failed prophecyings but continually move the "goal posts" on those who oppose their unBiblical theories.

Thus, we get from ClubV12 that the 1929 date is true but its "relevance" my need fine tuning. The same was true when Ronald Reagen met with the Pope. I remember how SDA went nuts thinking the "end of world" had indeed come. Here was clear proof that "apostate protestantism was extending its hand across the gulf to the Papal whore".

Now a days you hear not even a slight whisper about that incident.

It makes you wonder do SDA really know what they are doing? Do they realize how silly they look and are because of their RCC/Pope hatred. After all you cannot get more hateful than to call someone a whore and that is exactly what SDA call the RCC/Pope.

[John317]

... I remember how SDA went nuts thinking the "end of world" had indeed come. Here was clear proof that "apostate protestantism was extending its hand across the gulf to the Papal whore".

Now a days you hear not even a slight whisper about that incident.

I don't know what SDAs you're talking about but I never saw or heard anything like what you're suggesting.

Reagan's getting together with the pope in order to help bring down the USSR and the Iron Curtain certainly was a partial fulfillment of prophecy, but no SDA that I ever heard or saw believe that it was the "end of the world."

Is it clear proof of "apostate protestantism extending its hand across the gulf" to grasp the hand of Romanism? Yes, indeed. And it is continuing, and will continue until the prophecy is completely fulfilled. The mortal wound is still in the process of healing. It is far closer to being healed than it was in 1989.

1929 was the beginning of the healing of the mortal wound, and we can see since then how much closer the wound is to reaching full healing.

People still talk about the significance of those events. Maybe you just aren't listening or reading.

[ClubV12]

There is no "prophecy" associated with 1929, it is simply a land mark historical fact recorded in history of what I believe is a significant event concerning the RCC. Some may not see it as "significant" or worthy of substantial consideration, I'm OK with that. Because it's NOT a prophecy of any kind and has no major impact on the end result. It's just a way mark, I think, and in that regard, it has some relevance.

[John317]

... Here was clear proof that "apostate protestantism was extending its hand across the gulf to the Papal whore".

...SDA ...their RCC/Pope hatred. After all you cannot get more hateful than to call someone a whore and that is exactly what SDA call the RCC/Pope.

SDAs don't have hatred for the Catholic Church or for the pope.

When the book of Revelation refers to spiritual Babylon as a "whore," it doesn't use the term out of hatred. It uses the term in the same way that God called Israel "unfaithful."

God is telling the truth about the condition of spiritual Babylon. The first step in the direction of healing or salvation is the diagnosis. Babylon itself will never get well. It is fallen and will never repent or change, but many of the people in Babylon will be saved. But first they need to hear the truth of the gospel and the truth of Babylon's condition. They need to hear the urgent call of God, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues..." See Rev. 18: 4-6.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

... I remember how SDA went nuts thinking the "end of world" had indeed come. Here was clear proof that "apostate protestantism was extending its hand across the gulf to the Papal whore".

Now a days you hear not even a slight whisper about that incident.

I don't know what SDAs you're talking about but I never saw or heard anything like what you're suggesting.

Reagan's getting together with the pope in order to help bring down the USSR and the Iron Curtain certainly was a partial fulfillment of prophecy, but no SDA that I ever heard or saw believe that it was the "end of the world."

Is it clear proof of "apostate protestantism extending its hand across the gulf" to grasp the hand of Romanism? Yes, indeed. And it is continuing, and will continue until the prophecy is completely fulfilled. The mortal wound is still in the process of healing. It is far closer to being healed than it was in 1989.

1929 was the beginning of the healing of the mortal wound, and we can see since then how much closer the wound is to reaching full healing.

People still talk about the significance of those events. Maybe you just aren't listening or reading.

I saw and heard differently about those events. I can see how SDA would want to NOW minimize those events and dampen down what was clear panic on many SDA minds.

[John317]

I saw and heard differently about those events. I can see how SDA would want to NOW minimize those events and dampen down what was clear panic on many SDA minds.

Show the evidence of what you're saying. What "panic"?

You're making this stuff up, miz3. Anyone can make wild claims, and you're coming up with more than your share of them. You talk about the so-called lies of SDAs against the Catholic Church and the papacy, yet you come on the Forum and spread your own about individuals and groups.

[miz3]

There is no "prophecy" associated with 1929, it is simply a land mark historical fact recorded in history of what I believe is a significant event concerning the RCC. Some may not see it as "significant" or worthy of substantial consideration, I'm OK with that. Because it's NOT a prophecy of any kind and has no major impact on the end result. It's just a way mark, I think, and in that regard, it has some relevance.

Your stated position above is clearly much more reasonable than the SDA official position has been on this issue.

However, I view this as just another piece of evidence that SDA take a hardened antiRCC/Pope position at one moment and than as events move on they change their tone and force and soften what has been a blunder to say it is not that important after all.

The SDA have done this repeatedly. Like the "dark day", "the falling of the stars", "the San Francisco earthquake", etc.

Couple this with the "great disappointment" and Hiram Edson "excuse" it becomes a pattern to take note of.

Such "goal post" moving makes it most difficult if not impossible to trust any prophetic SDA position.

[miz3]

Originally Posted By: miz3

... Here was clear proof that "apostate protestantism was extending its hand across the gulf to the Papal whore".

...SDA ...their RCC/Pope hatred. After all you cannot get more hateful than to call someone a whore and that is exactly what SDA call the RCC/Pope.

SDAs don't have hatred for the Catholic Church or for the pope.

When the book of Revelation refers to spiritual Babylon as a "whore," it doesn't use the term out of hatred. It uses the term in the same way that God called Israel "unfaithful."

God is telling the truth about the condition of spiritual Babylon. The first step in the direction of healing or salvation is the diagnosis. Babylon itself will never get well. It is fallen and will never repent or change, but many of the people in Babylon will be saved. But first they need to hear the truth of the gospel and the truth of Babylon's condition. They need to hear the urgent call of God, "Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues..." See Rev. 18: 4-6.

Tell me why then does the Bible in the Book of Revelation state most emphatically that the RCC/Pope (your interpretation) the great whore is to be paid back "double".

That sounds more like "hateful revenge" to me. It most certainly is not just a meek "now RCC/Pope don't be like a naughty whore instead be a good girl".

You better read Revelation again and see just how God is hateful and vengeful toward this "great whore". You missed some of the extremely strong language which seem to want to water down.

[John317]

There is no "prophecy" associated with 1929, it is simply a land mark historical fact recorded in history of what I believe is a significant event concerning the RCC. Some may not see it as "significant" or worthy of substantial consideration, I'm OK with that. Because it's NOT a prophecy of any kind and has no major impact on the end result. It's just a way mark, I think, and in that regard, it has some relevance.

Originally Posted By: miz3

Your stated position above is clearly much more reasonable than the SDA official position has been on this issue.

Can you quote the "official position" of the SDA church on this?

Our position is simply that 1929 is an important date because it is dramatic evidence of the healing of the mortal wound. That is still our position.

[John317]

The SDA have done this repeatedly. Like the "dark day", "the falling of the stars", "the San Francisco earthquake", etc.

Couple this with the "great disappointment" and Hiram Edson "excuse" it becomes a pattern to take note of.

SDAs haven't moved from what we've always said about the dark day, the falling of the stars.

I don't know what you're talking about when it comes to the San Francisco earthquake. I don't see our church changing what we've always said about it.

You're free, of course, to view Hiram Edson's experience as an "excuse" if that's what you're determined to do. Edson's experience occurred long before the formation of the SDA church. What his experience did was help the early Adventists understand that God was leading them. That was a very important test of the Advent people.

[ClubV12]

What panic miz3?

Where's the evidence this is a truthful statement?