Christian Pastor to be executed in Iran as per Sharia Law

[LifeHiscost]

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I do not know what steps this Pastor may have taken to bring upon himself a "time of trouble" before it's time! I hope he did nothing of the sort, but I don't know. Perhaps in his zeal for the truth he took steps he now regrets very much. I hope this "time of trouble" he is in now is one of coming close to God, seeking forgiveness for any mistakes, preparing his soul for possible death.

For those who have not lived in the "shadow of death", especially as it relates to faithfulness to the Word, how easy it is "decide" for them.

"For it is not you who will be speaking—it will be the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

“A brother will betray his brother to death, a father will betray his own child, and children will rebel against their parents and cause them to be killed. And all nations will hate you because you are my followers. But everyone who endures to the end will be saved." Matthew 10:20-22 NLT

God blesses!

[GreatLakesGramma]

I'd like to point out who provided the model and who is responsible for for these dark-ages practices.

Christians

This doesn't justify their behavior, but I don't think the Crusades did much to help things. I can see why Islam might decide to root out Christianity because it taught Christians to kill all muslims.

No, it was the Catholic church that conducted the Crusades. Catholicism is not Christianity, it's a corruption of Christianity. It's really nothing but baptized paganism.

[ClubV12]

I was thinking about the response we are to have toward the Sunday law when it comes. Will you challenge it, flaunt it in some way, show your disgust for it openly? Like mow your lawn on Sunday so all the neighbors will see your ignoring the law? Because, you know, you WANT to make a point. You WANT to agitate the question. If you do some work, maybe the neighbors will have some questions and you can witness to them? After all, your standing up for God's law, a noble thing, right?

Or, do you keep quiet and obey the law? In Iran, when you send your kids to school and they have to study Shira law or some aspect of Islam, do you confront the teachers and make a scene of it all, or do you quietly obey the law?

[SivartM]

No, it was the Catholic church that conducted the Crusades. Catholicism is not Christianity, it's a corruption of Christianity. It's really nothing but baptized paganism.

Does that entirely refute his point though? What about Martin Luther; was he a Christian? His rabid hatred of Jews didn't help anything.

[John317]

...The following is WHY religious educated Muslims wink at SDA's...

...And to a degree allow them to operate in places the eastern Orthodox and Catholics are not.

Review and Herald, October 28, 1909".... About one half of the koran is a polemic against polytheism and TRINITARIANISM. In fact the word Allah is an abbreviation of Al-iah which means the ONE, TRUE, ONLY God. There is something in the nature of a challenge in the word itself to the dominant Christian church of the period when Mohammedanism arose."

...And after reading the Koran from cover to cover I can assure you that the Trinity IS the enemy of Islam.

The SDA church believes in the Trinity. It is one of our official Fundamental Beliefs. However, as is well known, many in the SDA church did not believe in the Trinity back in 1909. So the situation is completely different today than it was in the 1800s and early 1900s.

I notice you have to go back all the way to 1909 to find such a statement in a Seventh-day Adventist publication. You won't find one like it in the last 100 years.

But having said that, it's important to recognize that there are other doctrines of greater importance than the Trinity. Many people will be saved in God's kingdom who didn't believe in the Trinity, but no one will be saved without genuine faith in Christ as their personal Lord and Savior.

[John317]

This pretty sick stuff. What it says is that if god doesn't heal you then you aren't worthy.

That isn't what the Bible teaches. God loves everyone. Whether a person is healed doesn't depend on whether he's worthy or not. It depends on whether it is God's will, and God's will for some to be healed has nothing to do with whether a person is "worthy."

Originally Posted By: cardw

It is also a way to explain why people didn't always get well when Sister White prayed for people.

God doesn't always do what we pray that He will do. Don't you think it's reasonable that God wouldn't do everything humans think He should or that we want Him to?

Originally Posted By: cardw

If she adds "if it be thine will" then she has plausible deniability.

It is simply an acknowledgement that human beings don't always know what's best.

[John317]

No, it was the Catholic church that conducted the Crusades. Catholicism is not Christianity, it's a corruption of Christianity. It's really nothing but baptized paganism.

Originally Posted By: SivartM

Does that entirely refute his point though? What about Martin Luther; was he a Christian? His rabid hatred of Jews didn't help anything.

Yes, Martin Luther was certainly a Christian, and Christians have also done some things that are very wrong. Martin Luther was a great Christian leader, but he still believed in many errors since he was just coming out of Catholicism.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

It is also a way to explain why people didn't always get well when Sister White prayed for people.

God doesn't always do what we pray that He will do. Don't you think it's reasonable that God wouldn't do everything humans think He should or that we want Him to?

[ClubV12]

A good example of why we often don't know what to pray for or how to pray. Be careful what you ask for, even demand, of the Lord.

Do you want your will or His?

We have many examples in the bible where people asked (more like demanded) something from the Lord and even when told it would not be in their best interest, still, they insisted. The Lord gave them what they wanted and the results were always bad news in the end.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: GreatLakesGramma

No, it was the Catholic church that conducted the Crusades. Catholicism is not Christianity, it's a corruption of Christianity. It's really nothing but baptized paganism.

Originally Posted By: SivartM

Does that entirely refute his point though? What about Martin Luther; was he a Christian? His rabid hatred of Jews didn't help anything.

Yes, Martin Luther was certainly a Christian, and Christians have also done some things that are very wrong. Martin Luther was a great Christian leader, but he still believed in many errors since he was just coming out of Catholicism.

How could a man with such hatred in his heart understand unconditional love in any sense? Was he acting like Jesus would?

[BobRyan]

Someone has pointed out recently that Sharia law is a fair representation of dark-ages mentality in the so-called Holy Roman empire.

I think there is validity to that point.

in Christ,

Bob

[cardw]

A good example of why we often don't know what to pray for or how to pray. Be careful what you ask for, even demand, of the Lord.

Do you want your will or His?

We have many examples in the bible where people asked (more like demanded) something from the Lord and even when told it would not be in their best interest, still, they insisted. The Lord gave them what they wanted and the results were always bad news in the end.

The problem with this is when we pray and ask god to do his will then what ever happens is considered god's will.

There is no critical analysis or way to determine if it was god's will or not.

Let's say that I create a robot and if the robot screws up then it's the robot's fault. If the robot does well then it's because of me.

That's the same way it is with this version of god's will. If it turns out badly then it must not have been god's will. If it turns out good then it was god's will. And if I asked that god do his will then whatever happens was god's will.

That is simply crazy making and why religious people often come to some pretty crazy conclusions.

[ClubV12]

What you call doubt a christian calls faith, it's a spiritual thing, I'm not surprised you don't understand it. 'Cause, well, I'm sure you've heard, spiritual things, spiritually discerned and all that.

Consider King Hezekiah for a moment. He got really sick and was about to die. The Lord instructed His prophet to place a fig over Hezekiahs wound, which was then healed. The Lord did not need the fig, or anything else to heal the man, He could have simply worked a miracle. Those who chose to doubt will say the fig healed the man. Those with faith recognize healing ONLY comes from God.

Hold on, it gets tricky now. The Lord created, along with this planet, "natural laws" (physics and such) and these laws need to be obeyed just like the ten commandments for optimal well being. Violtate the law of gravity by jumping off a high mountain, pay the price. Over eat, get an upset stomach. Get an infection, keep it clean, etc. etc. By having the prophet use a fig illustrates the relationship between prayer, God and obedience to His natural laws. Mind and body work together, so good mental health promotes physical health, and vice versa. A merry heart is good like a medicine. The bible said that centuries before "scientists" began to understand the significance of the mental and physical health relationship.

Now lets say you have violated these natural laws and become sick as a result. So then some christians come along and pray for you to get healthy, but you ignore the fact that you weigh 600 pounds and haven't stopped eating lately! God will work WITH you AND He will work with His natural laws as well. Pray for health AND do what you know is right, get on a diet! And trust God, it will do your heart good, literally, physically. It will increase your will power to stay on that diet. It will sharpen your spiritual understanding.

Science approaches healing from ONE perspective, take a pill, do a by-pass operation, use lots of therapy. Good christian methodology uses a DUAL approach, pratical application of medicine AND practical appliaction of faith. It's the difference between doubt and faith. The doctor thinks he healed the guy, no he didn't, he just followed Gods natural laws. The christian recognizes ALL HEALING comes from God, just like the natural laws come from God.

[cardw]

What you call doubt a christian calls faith, it's a spiritual thing, I'm not surprised you don't understand it. 'Cause, well, I'm sure you've heard, spiritual things, spiritually discerned and all that.

I understand what making up stories for things we don't understand is. That's called mythology.

You can call it spiritual discernment, but it is easily dismissed because everybody's spiritual discernment comes up with different things. There is absolutely no accountability to the truth.

It basically comes down to who has the most power. And that is why Christianity is still around. The Catholic church had the most power and Adventism would not be around if it wasn't for the violent and forceful establishment of Christianity by the Roman Catholic Church.

You are simply upgrading a violent myth to a less violent myth. Islam has the same spectrum of violent and less violent factions within its belief structures. I see no difference other than Islam is about 200 years behind Christianity in its evolution.

[fccool]

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You can call it spiritual discernment, but it is easily dismissed because everybody's spiritual discernment comes up with different things. There is absolutely no accountability to the truth.

But, that issue becomes the problem. I've discussed it with my father recently quite a bit after reading and watching Joseph Campbell stuff as per your advice.

I agree with Campbell. The myths are there to fulfill a certain need. For many people these myths built the societal structures of their time. They were not just myths, but these were education about life. So, in essence, these were not stories about strange gods and etc... these were the stories of their own human experience encoded as such.

The more I read and study the mythology, the more I convinced that the "modern religions", be it Islam, Christianity and it's forms, or even Scientology, are the culmination point of this "intrinsic" need to encode "wisdom of self" into stories that relate to people on some level, and make it practical and reflective of human progress.

I grew up in Europe, and never really understood why people attend soccer, until now. It can be quite boring to watch, BUT in a social setting, it's a way to release negative energy on to cussing refs, or players who can't make the goal, or the opposing team. People need that release to function properly. Psychologically, any society is dependent on some scapegoat, be it a human who they sacrifice to gods, or animal, or whatever...

So, this human (farmacos - healer and the cursed one) becomes both the cursed one, and the savior of the entire society. It united the society through collective "hatred", and thus constantly saved it. So, progressively, Christianity is actually a metaphorical way out of that culture. Unfortunately, it got twisted around a bit by modern interpretation of many concepts, with Christ embodying only one part of the pharmacos... the savior, but people don't really "hate" Christ when coming into such religion, so such release is suppressed and directed towards something else.

Thus, in many ways, human psychology is hijacked by fundamentalist groups for political purposes. That's why you have the dark ages, where farmacos would be anyone that church would point to... be it witches, heretics, or jews.

In today's society, pharmacos are merely perspectives of the opposite societies. For people of USA, USSR and socialism was it. For people of USSR the capitalism was it. Then it progressed towards terrorists, liberals, and homosexuals.

I certainly don't advocate going back to the sacrificial religions of old, but we have to understand what, why, and how. If we approach the religious belief as mere superstition, we misrepresent the purpose that it serves.

Many people on this forum would simply not be able to have normal lives without religious beliefs. It would sort of be psychologically akin to having a society without any boundaries of the laws. For these people, they absolutely need that psychological anchor... and that's why they have to interpret every concept of God and judgement literally. They simply could not do otherwise.

It does not make them worse or better. It just make them feel alive. And that's what it's all about.

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It basically comes down to who has the most power. And that is why Christianity is still around. The Catholic church had the most power and Adventism would not be around if it wasn't for the violent and forceful establishment of Christianity by the Roman Catholic Church.

Not really. I think that the power of Catholic church is largely overstated. I have plenty of Catholic friends. Really good and pious Catholics. And even for them, the belief is not an issue of "Pope says this and that". It's a matter of tradition. They were born into mindset that "makes sense to them".

I very much agree with Campbell's idea that in their own way, every religion is "correct" when it's interpreted as concepts and truths relating to every human on this planet. That's why it subconsciously makes "sense" to people. That's what they call "spiritual understanding", because on some level they "get" the metaphor, although they deny it being metaphorical. They understand how it relates to them personally, and how these truths direct their lives.

At the same time, I agree with Campbell's idea that these truths if interpreted outside of reams of metaphor, can lead to some barbaric implications. Religion should serve as means to understand ourselves and "divine" that we reflect better... not to hate ourselves for our shortcomings.

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You are simply upgrading a violent myth to a less violent myth. Islam has the same spectrum of violent and less violent factions within its belief structures. I see no difference other than Islam is about 200 years behind Christianity in its evolution.

I grew up with Russian fairy tale myths. It's saddens me that russian culture on some level is losing it today through westernization, but that's how we grew up as a kids, on these stories which are probably 1000s of years old.

These were stories of strong people slaying dragons, of evil witches and evil immortal beings, or different wood creatures that embodied certain aspects of human experience.

When you are a kid, growing up and hearing these stories... you understand them literally. You understand that there are "bogatirs" and witches, and Zmey Gorinich, and Kashy Besmertniy, and flying carpets, and the apple that gives the ones you love eternal life and beauty, and the phoenix birds... all of that is a reality for you. But, then you grow up, and you no longer believe, but the ideals that were embedded in these stories are still with you.

That's what true maturity is. Going beyond these myths that are there to teach people something about "spiritual self"... spiritual meaning impermeable subconscious self... and understanding self better.

These stories are not about Christ, Yahue, Moses, Buddha, Thor Prometheus, and etc. These stories are about us. And when one "grows up" they understand it.

But, you don't run to a person who is still in the "growing up" stage and make points like "How can you believe in Santa, it's all a lie perpetuated by your parents", or "You parents exchange those teeth for money". They have to eventually come to that realization themselves. That's a part of growth experience.

And that's my take on it now. We can't just outright yank people out of the "childhood". They need to go through that, because they need it psychologically. And, even if they don't realize the "power of the myth" so to speak, it does not make it any less practical or powerful. These myths shaped our societies as these are today. I don't think we should discard them so quickly. They merely reflect the idea of divine that's intrinsic in all humanity and life in general. It's a great and unexplainable mystery. And the best part about mystery what makes our life meaningful.

If you want to know what life is all about... it's about that learning what it's all about. And that's what we do our entire life... we learn about life through experience. And of itself, that's what makes life meaningful.

[cardw]

Originally Posted By: cardw

You can call it spiritual discernment, but it is easily dismissed because everybody's spiritual discernment comes up with different things. There is absolutely no accountability to the truth.

But, that issue becomes the problem. I've discussed it with my father recently quite a bit after reading and watching Joseph Campbell stuff as per your advice.

I agree with Campbell. The myths are there to fulfill a certain need. For many people these myths built the societal structures of their time. They were not just myths, but these were education about life. So, in essence, these were not stories about strange gods and etc... these were the stories of their own human experience encoded as such.

The more I read and study the mythology, the more I convinced that the "modern religions", be it Islam, Christianity and it's forms, or even Scientology, are the culmination point of this "intrinsic" need to encode "wisdom of self" into stories that relate to people on some level, and make it practical and reflective of human progress.