The 2520 year/day prophecy from Leviticus 26. Do you believe this?

[Alchemy]

The 2520 year/day prophecy from Leviticus 26. Do you believe this?

If you do, which version do you believe?

If not, why not?

[John317]

No, I don't. I frankly haven't ever read any arguments in favor of it that I believed were convincing.

I'd like to know what you believe and why.

[ClubV12]

676 BC (I think) to 457 (give or take) BC is a period of time added to the beginning of the 2,300 year prophecy, making the total number of years 2520.

The "start date", 676 BC has something to do with the Assyrians capturing Jerusalem and scattering 10 tribes Abraham's people through out the world.

It's an interesting foot note to the 2,300 year prophecy but is not a neccessary component of it.

What piqued my interest in this question is recently I've been considering James in the New Testament who wrote his letter to the 12 tribes scattered through out the world. Judah we have details on, but what about the "10" missing tribes? Looks like they never recovered from the Assyrian assault in 676, never returned. what became of them? Just something I've been thinking about lately....

[Lysimachus]

I personally see no light in the 2,520. That's after a good amount of research of course. I have found any salvific benefit to it whatsoever. Both Uriah Smith and James White wrote good long articles refuting it. Ellen White never once corrected her husband on it.

[ClubV12]

...so these 10 missing tribes, from around 676 BC or so, the Assyrians and all that, what ever happened to those tribes? It's like they dropped off the face of the earth.

I wouldn't put to much on Ellen White correcting or not correcting her husband or anyone else on any given subject. Some things just aren't worth commenting on for various reasons, beyond whether they are correct or incorrect. As to the 2520, eh, whatever, I don't see any relevance one way or the other.

Like the "daily" or the "144,000" or even the nature of the Holy Spirit. There are times when she refused to comment on all of the above, for various reasons.

[Alchemy]

When I first heard about the 2520 was a few months ago from a Jeff Pippenger video. At first I thought it was true, but had to ask myself why I hadn't heard of this before?

It wasn't long when I came across the article from James White while he was the editor of the Review and Herald. From that point on it was impossible for me to accept this prophetic interpretation and have been amazed at the abuse I have had to take from people who do accept this teaching.

The use of two timelines and all can't be supported from Scripture or Ellen White. Also, Sister White never corrected her husband when he refuted the 2520 prophecy.

I understand William Miller believed it was the first prophecy he interpreted from Scripture, but he was mistaken. So often, proponents rely very heavily on the 1843 and 1850 charts. And sister White says that even with God's hand involved, there were problems with the 1843 chart.

I also understand that sister White never commented on this prophecy. Some like to quote PK 382.3 about Mennasah as a reference to the 2520, but that is a great stretch to me.

[Alchemy]

Just in case of confusion; In Leviticus 26, the term "7 times" is used on four different occasions. 7 multiplied by 360 prophetic days equals 2520. That is where the 2520 comes from.

Just a note; Because of the problems the pioneers were having understanding this prophecy, Hiram Ebson came up with the idea of changing the timeline William Miller used. Miller's was from 677 B.C. until 1843, then modified to 1844 A.D.

Brother Hiram's idea was from 723 B.C. until 1798 A.D. This timeline would be split by two 1260 year/day sections of Pagan Rome and Papal Rome.

Now, both timelines are used at the same time. The pioneers never believed this!

Anyway, I meant this post for clarification.

[Lysimachus]

Just in case of confusion; In Leviticus 26, the term "7 times" is used on four different occasions. 7 multiplied by 360 prophetic days equals 2520. That is where the 2520 comes from.

Just a note; Because of the problems the pioneers were having understanding this prophecy, Hiram Ebson came up with the idea of changing the timeline William Miller used. Miller's was from 677 B.C. until 1843, then modified to 1844 A.D.

Brother Hiram's idea was from 723 B.C. until 1798 A.D. This timeline would be split by two 1260 year/day sections of Pagan Rome and Papal Rome.

Now, both timelines are used at the same time. The pioneers never believed this!

Anyway, I meant this post for clarification.

You state this very well. But remember, whenever you share with them a simple refutation like this, they will respond to you with a 42 page article and expect you to read 20-30 statements from Ellen White where they bold and bold and bold and highlight sections all over these statements and then somehow pretend that these statements are supporting the 2,520.

[Alchemy]

Originally Posted By: Alchemy

Just in case of confusion; In Leviticus 26, the term "7 times" is used on four different occasions. 7 multiplied by 360 prophetic days equals 2520. That is where the 2520 comes from.

Just a note; Because of the problems the pioneers were having understanding this prophecy, Hiram Ebson came up with the idea of changing the timeline William Miller used. Miller's was from 677 B.C. until 1843, then modified to 1844 A.D.

Brother Hiram's idea was from 723 B.C. until 1798 A.D. This timeline would be split by two 1260 year/day sections of Pagan Rome and Papal Rome.

Now, both timelines are used at the same time. The pioneers never believed this!

Anyway, I meant this post for clarification.

You state this very well. But remember, whenever you share with them a simple refutation like this, they will respond to you with a 42 page article and expect you to read 20-30 statements from Ellen White where they bold and bold and bold and highlight sections all over these statements and then somehow pretend that these statements are supporting the 2,520.

ROFL...

You are so right, Lysimachus.

They refuse to actually discuss the issues with this prophecy! They will quote tons of information that you have to sift through and figure out whatever they are trying to say.

[jasd]

QR frame:

Y'alls continue to amaze me: how can you just let lie the compounded 'holy number seven' and the drive train of the favored prophetic 'times'?

(I bolded 'seven times' for my friend Lysimachus)

Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin*

Why did Gd elect to write 'those' words when, being the linguist He obviously is, He might have simply written, to effect, “Listen-up, goodfella, tonight you will, justifiably, lose both your life and the kingdom”, or some other equally well-expressed sentiment.

Were Gd to have written, “Mene, Tekel, Upharsin”, with an implicit meaning in the Aramaic, ‘number(ed), weigh(ed), division(s)’, --would that have sufficed? --without the redundant "Mene"? to convey

what Gd intended that it should convey --to both Belshazzar and --to those for whom the book of Daniel would eventually be unsealed? In other words,

how is the sense or intent of the message better served by repeating “Number(ed), Number(ed),…”? that is, “Mene, Mene,…”? unless…

Aramaic

Mene

Mene

Tekel

Upharsin

Hebrew

Minah = 1000 gerahs

Minah = 1000 gerahs

Shekel = 20 gerahs -- (shekel, a fiftieth part of a thousand)

Peres = 500 gerahs -- (peres, a half part of a thousand)

_______________________________

'seven times' = 2520

The ‘coinage’ in the two columns above and the redundancy of "Mene" (without which there would have been only a configuration, in the Hebrew, of 1520 --best defined as meaningless) suggests to me the use of a form [Hebrew] within a form [Aramaic] by Gd; its meaning readily apparent to Daniel. Also,

given what I have suggested in the above, Gd apparently, took some care in composing the message, which was written on the wall at the feast of Belshazzar… Otherwise,

if Gd had employed straightforward language, much of what [i take] to have been concealed (per Dan 12:4 …shut up the words, and seal the book…) should have been readily understood, without need of sending for Daniel to interpret the writing.

(It might be of interest to those unawares, that the Babylonians used a sexagesimal number system, that is, their base [number] was 60; whereas; we tend use a decimal system. That may have been why

they could not decipher the ‘numbers’, which appeared on the wall) Anyway,

note that Belshazzar asked Daniel for an interpretation -- not a translation. Daniel acceded and provided Belshazzar with the sense of the writing. That being said,

Daniel interpreted (paraphrased) the writing utilizing, according to the KJV, twenty-nine words where there had been but four upon the wall. Though we have had the ‘sense’ of the writing on the wall per Daniel 5:25-28, we’ve really not had what might be a literal translation (or transliteration) of the writing on the wall…

Is the meaning of Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin/Peres important?

*two minas, a shekel, and a half-mina: There are some who suggest that Upharsin and Farsi [meaning Persia(ns)] are etymologically related. That may be so, but I’m not inclined to agree. I mention it only in passing, as someone might be interested.

So, why not let wisdom lie with the Babylonians? Seems the .Org chooses to, in this instance, dismiss the seeming importance of the number '7' and their predilection with 'times' (...do declare!).

Uh-oh, were one to accept the "1844 is the last time prophecy" dictum - well..., one runs afoul of the 'infallible'. Trouble in Beulahland.

[jasd]

Remember: that 'seven times' was allocated to Nabuchadnezzar, a prophet of Gd (in similar way as with the prophet Ezekiel) of whom it was said, "Thou art [this] head of gold." (Dan 2:38)

It is the thinking of many expositors of Writ that the above represented a seven times, or 2520 years, abeyance or 'passing over' of Babylon. Herein, is where also many err...

in thinking that the Papacy was/is Babylon. Should Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upoharsin speak to 2520 years - much of the .Org's interpretation of Daniel and Revelation would have to be revisited.

Ouch.

[Alchemy]

Exactly my point, sir.

The people of God were already scattered at this time, nothing here with Belshazzar could have changed that.

If you remember, God was trying to get Israel to repent for many years to prevent scattering His people. (Jeremiah and Isaiah) Well, at this point in time with Belshazzar it's too late, they are already scattered!

There isn't any connection with the scattering of God's people and the coins you mentioned. Both James White and Uriah Smith were clear that there wasn't any time prophecy in Leviticus chapter 26, so why do you mention Belshazzar?

I agree the symmetry looks beautiful, but symmetry is not a test of prophecy! The fall of Babylon was predicted by God in Daniel 2 and now it's taking place right before Daniel's eyes.

[Alchemy]

Remember: that 'seven times' was allocated to Nabuchadnezzar, a prophet of Gd (in similar way as with the prophet Ezekiel) of whom it was said, "Thou art [this] head of gold." (Dan 2:38)

It is the thinking of many expositors of Writ that the above represented a seven times, or 2520 years, abeyance or 'passing over' of Babylon. Herein, is where also many err...

in thinking that the Papacy was/is Babylon. Should Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upoharsin speak to 2520 years - much of the .Org's interpretation of Daniel and Revelation would have to be revisited.

Ouch.

I actually tried to make Daniel 4 work in place of Leviticus 26, because the word for "times" in Daniel 4 is a noun, whereas it is an adverb in Lev. 26.

But, Daniel 4 isn't about the scattering of God's people, it is about humbling the Babylonian ruler. And I thank God he finally learned his lesson.

[jasd]

>>Exactly my point, sir.<<

And what point was that?—I thought I’d made several...

>>The people of God were already scattered at this time, nothing here with Belshazzar could have changed that.<<

Umm yes, the COI, for the most part, were indeed in their 2520-year dispersion. I’m not certain how the remaining/returning captives are treated within the context of the 2520-year prophecy... That said,

what I proffered in my above post dealt with Babylon – not Israel.

>>If you remember, God was trying to get Israel to repent for many years to prevent scattering His people. (Jeremiah and Isaiah) Well, at this point in time with Belshazzar it's too late, they are already scattered!<<

I also remember that Gd told David through Nathan that – He would cause the entire 12 tribes to emigrate to a land He’d prepared for them (described in Writ as having a river for a Southern Border and extending to the end of the earth; having an Eastern Sea and a Hinder/Western Sea; being spoiled/quartered by rivers; trodden/measured; etc - there is more; however, there is only one land that geographically emerges from theose Biblcial parameters...) - and once arriving there, they would not return to Old Canaanland

Seems that Gd anticipated their rebellious hearts...

>>There isn't any connection with the scattering of God's people and the coins you mentioned.<<

Not in any direct sense, no; however, the reason I mentioned Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin was to show a contributory and substantiating factor re the Seven Times prophecy of Leviticus 26.

>>Both James White and Uriah Smith were clear that there wasn't any time prophecy in Leviticus chapter 26,<<

I would be most hesitant to allow my Bible studies to hinge upon either this James White or Uriah Smith. I could accept them for whatever commentary value I deemed that they genuinely proffered; however, as an indispensable hinge upon which doctrine turned!—forbid...

>>so why do you mention Belshazzar?<<

As I’ve stated above – for a contributory and substantiating factor vis-à-vis Leviticus 26.

>>I agree the symmetry looks beautiful, but symmetry is not a test of prophecy! The fall of Babylon was predicted by God in Daniel 2 and now it's taking place right before Daniel's eyes.<<

It is not necessarily the “fall of Babylon” that is germane to the matter, but that it (because of Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin) identifies the proximate time (anno domini) when Babylon will arise from a 2520-year ‘passing over’ as one of the protagonists in the final scene of the final act upon this stage whereupon we are but actors (plagiarized). :-)

Quote:

Quote:Alchemy

...Sister White never corrected her husband when he refuted the 2520 prophecy.

Nor did she correct her husband re the matter of the Trinity either, but in the end – had to embrace it.

Quote:

Quote:jasd

Remember: that 'seven times' was allocated to Nabuchadnezzar, a prophet of Gd (in similar way as with the prophet Ezekiel) of whom it was said, "Thou art [this] head of gold." (Dan 2:38)

It is the thinking of many expositors of Writ that the above represented a seven times, or 2520 years, abeyance or 'passing over' of Babylon. Herein, is where also many err...

in thinking that the Papacy was/is Babylon. Should Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upoharsin speak to 2520 years - much of the .Org's interpretation of Daniel and Revelation would have to be revisited.

Ouch.

>>I actually tried to make Daniel 4 work in place of Leviticus 26, because the word for "times" in Daniel 4 is a noun, whereas it is an adverb in Lev. 26.<<

Actually, to be more specific: Leviticus 26 uses Hebrew and Daniel incorporated Aramaic. Both “seven” and “times” in Daniel 4 are nouns. “Times” is not written in the Leviticus 26 text, but is acknowledged as latent – it being the most logical extension of “seven/sheba”– linguistically speaking. Sheba is a noun functioning adverbially, which leads many expositors to think that “seven” in Leviticus 26 is meant to be taken to mean ‘sevenfold’, as ‘sevenfold’ is an adverb. Therein, they’ve erred.

The debate does not hang upon whether there is an adverb or a noun to be found in either phrase or clause – as the result or denouement is prophesied and is the same no matter which lexical path is taken..

>>But, Daniel 4 isn't about the scattering of God's people, it is about humbling the Babylonian ruler. And I thank God he finally learned his lesson.<<

Gd said that Nabuchadnezzar was the head of gold; that is, Babylon – that the narrative may be apprehended, as it was Nabuchadnezzar upon whom the ‘seven times curse’ was pronounced.

The 2520-year curse was implemented against both the COI and Babylon. Both, have fulfilled their ‘times’ curse – with Babylon’s having occurred circa AD 1980-4. [/extemporizing, as memory serves]

[Alchemy]

>>Exactly my point, sir.<<

And what point was that?—I thought I’d made several...

>>The people of God were already scattered at this time, nothing here with Belshazzar could have changed that.<<

Umm yes, the COI, for the most part, were indeed in their 2520-year dispersion. I’m not certain how the remaining/returning captives are treated within the context of the 2520-year prophecy... That said,

what I proffered in my above post dealt with Babylon – not Israel.

>>If you remember, God was trying to get Israel to repent for many years to prevent scattering His people. (Jeremiah and Isaiah) Well, at this point in time with Belshazzar it's too late, they are already scattered!<<

I also remember that Gd told David through Nathan that – He would cause the entire 12 tribes to emigrate to a land He’d prepared for them (described in Writ as having a river for a Southern Border and extending to the end of the earth; having an Eastern Sea and a Hinder/Western Sea; being spoiled/quartered by rivers; trodden/measured; etc - there is more; however, there is only one land that geographically emerges from theose Biblcial parameters...) - and once arriving there, they would not return to Old Canaanland

Seems that Gd anticipated their rebellious hearts...

>>There isn't any connection with the scattering of God's people and the coins you mentioned.<<

Not in any direct sense, no; however, the reason I mentioned Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin was to show a contributory and substantiating factor re the Seven Times prophecy of Leviticus 26.

>>Both James White and Uriah Smith were clear that there wasn't any time prophecy in Leviticus chapter 26,<<

I would be most hesitant to allow my Bible studies to hinge upon either this James White or Uriah Smith. I could accept them for whatever commentary value I deemed that they genuinely proffered; however, as an indispensable hinge upon which doctrine turned!—forbid...

>>so why do you mention Belshazzar?<<

As I’ve stated above – for a contributory and substantiating factor vis-à-vis Leviticus 26.

>>I agree the symmetry looks beautiful, but symmetry is not a test of prophecy! The fall of Babylon was predicted by God in Daniel 2 and now it's taking place right before Daniel's eyes.<<

It is not necessarily the “fall of Babylon” that is germane to the matter, but that it (because of Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin) identifies the proximate time (anno domini) when Babylon will arise from a 2520-year ‘passing over’ as one of the protagonists in the final scene of the final act upon this stage whereupon we are but actors (plagiarized). :-)

Quote:

Quote:Alchemy

...Sister White never corrected her husband when he refuted the 2520 prophecy.

Nor did she correct her husband re the matter of the Trinity either, but in the end – had to embrace it.

Quote:

Quote:jasd

Remember: that 'seven times' was allocated to Nabuchadnezzar, a prophet of Gd (in similar way as with the prophet Ezekiel) of whom it was said, "Thou art [this] head of gold." (Dan 2:38)

It is the thinking of many expositors of Writ that the above represented a seven times, or 2520 years, abeyance or 'passing over' of Babylon. Herein, is where also many err...

in thinking that the Papacy was/is Babylon. Should Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upoharsin speak to 2520 years - much of the .Org's interpretation of Daniel and Revelation would have to be revisited.

Ouch.

>>I actually tried to make Daniel 4 work in place of Leviticus 26, because the word for "times" in Daniel 4 is a noun, whereas it is an adverb in Lev. 26.<<

Actually, to be more specific: Leviticus 26 uses Hebrew and Daniel incorporated Aramaic. Both “seven” and “times” in Daniel 4 are nouns. “Times” is not written in the Leviticus 26 text, but is acknowledged as latent – it being the most logical extension of “seven/sheba”– linguistically speaking. Sheba is a noun functioning adverbially, which leads many expositors to think that “seven” in Leviticus 26 is meant to be taken to mean ‘sevenfold’, as ‘sevenfold’ is an adverb. Therein, they’ve erred.

The debate does not hang upon whether there is an adverb or a noun to be found in either phrase or clause – as the result or denouement is prophesied and is the same no matter which lexical path is taken..

>>But, Daniel 4 isn't about the scattering of God's people, it is about humbling the Babylonian ruler. And I thank God he finally learned his lesson.<<

Gd said that Nabuchadnezzar was the head of gold; that is, Babylon – that the narrative may be apprehended, as it was Nabuchadnezzar upon whom the ‘seven times curse’ was pronounced.

The 2520-year curse was implemented against both the COI and Babylon. Both, have fulfilled their ‘times’ curse – with Babylon’s having occurred circa AD 1980-4. [/extemporizing, as memory serves]

The point I was talking about is these posts people make to try and defend this 2520 prophecy! The coins don't mean anything. They don't have any bearing on the 2520 prophecy. A coincidence is not a test of prophecy.

Both James White and Uriah Smith spent much time on the 2520 year/day prophecy and it couldn't be substantiated by the Bible. I completely agree with their assessment. As far as the word "times" in Leviticus 26, it can't be used in the same prophetic sense as you seem to be trying to use it. James White and Uriah Smith were completely right to reject the 2520 prophecy.

I am surprised you didn't mention the 1843 and 1850 charts by William Miller, those are clearly mistaken as well.

William Miller made mistakes. So what! He wasn't perfect.

[jasd]

>>The point I was talking about is these posts people make to try and defend this 2520 prophecy!<<

So, you weren’t really interested in the 2520-year prophecy, but rather was clambering upon a soapbox to dogmatically assert your opposition to it... Okay, parochial I can understand...

>>The coins don't mean anything.<<

They’re not “coins”. They’re measurements, units of measurements.

>>They don't have any bearing on the 2520 prophecy. A coincidence is not a test of prophecy.<<

Sez you, eh? Okay, rigidity is good – sometimes. So, what is your test of prophecy?—self-ascripted words such as, “I was shown”? I prefer, “Well, I do declare!”

>>Both James White and Uriah Smith spent much time on the 2520 year/day prophecy and it couldn't be substantiated by the Bible.<<

Did they now? Mebbe, it was that they spent so much time with extraneous hoakum that they had no perception of that which slapped them upside their heads – or that which Gd concealeth was truly concealed from them...

>>I completely agree with their assessment.<<

Well now, prerogatives are ours to do with as we may, yes?

>>As far as the word "times" in Leviticus 26, it can't be used in the same prophetic sense as you seem to be trying to use it.<<

Why not?—you’ve made a point of the adverbial use of “seven/shiba” in Leviticus, which same, Daniel does.

>>James White and Uriah Smith were completely right to reject the 2520 prophecy.<<

You’ve made yourself clear re that; however, the assertion was not attended by any sort of dialogics other that the argument of righteous assertion.

>>I am surprised you didn't mention the 1843 and 1850 charts by William Miller, those are clearly mistaken as well.<<

Indeed, there’s that to say for self-evidence.

>>William Miller made mistakes. So what! He wasn't perfect.<<

You bring up Wm Miller, so I suppose he’s your raison d’être. Anyway, he was not disinclined to admit wrongheadedness. There’s that to say for him. Bravo!—Wm Miller.

[Alchemy]

>>The point I was talking about is these posts people make to try and defend this 2520 prophecy!<<

So, you weren’t really interested in the 2520-year prophecy, but rather was clambering upon a soapbox to dogmatically assert your opposition to it... Okay, parochial I can understand...

>>The coins don't mean anything.<<

They’re not “coins”. They’re measurements, units of measurements.

>>They don't have any bearing on the 2520 prophecy. A coincidence is not a test of prophecy.<<

Sez you, eh? Okay, rigidity is good – sometimes. So, what is your test of prophecy?—self-ascripted words such as, “I was shown”? I prefer, “Well, I do declare!”

>>Both James White and Uriah Smith spent much time on the 2520 year/day prophecy and it couldn't be substantiated by the Bible.<<

Did they now? Mebbe, it was that they spent so much time with extraneous hoakum that they had no perception of that which slapped them upside their heads – or that which Gd concealeth was truly concealed from them...

>>I completely agree with their assessment.<<

Well now, prerogatives are ours to do with as we may, yes?

>>As far as the word "times" in Leviticus 26, it can't be used in the same prophetic sense as you seem to be trying to use it.<<

Why not?—you’ve made a point of the adverbial use of “seven/shiba” in Leviticus, which same, Daniel does.

>>James White and Uriah Smith were completely right to reject the 2520 prophecy.<<

You’ve made yourself clear re that; however, the assertion was not attended by any sort of dialogics other that the argument of righteous assertion.

>>I am surprised you didn't mention the 1843 and 1850 charts by William Miller, those are clearly mistaken as well.<<

Indeed, there’s that to say for self-evidence.

>>William Miller made mistakes. So what! He wasn't perfect.<<

You bring up Wm Miller, so I suppose he’s your raison d’être. Anyway, he was not disinclined to admit wrongheadedness. There’s that to say for him. Bravo!—Wm Miller.

Again, my point exactly.

Abuse on top of abuse from those who support the 2520 prophecy. This is all you get. Put words in my mouth as if I need to defend these false accusations.

jasd, you have not made any point to substantiate the 2520.

Here is what James White said; http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH18640126-V23-09__B.pdf#view=fit

I am not aware of any of the pioneers of the church or Sister White challenging what Brother White said here.

But, the use of the word "times" in Leviticus 26 is not the same use of the word "times" as in Daniel 4! Not at all.

There has never been any Biblical support for this 2520 prophecy. There has never been any support for this 2520 prophecy from Ellen White either.

These weird connections of measurements in Daniel to Leviticus 26 are just bizarre. They are not supported by proper Bible study.

As far as Sister White not saying anything about the Trinity while James White was alive, she did defend the Trinity doctrine after James death! She could have easily addressed this 2520 issue as well if it needed it. But, it was sufficiently settled.

[12tribes]

So where in Leviticus 26 is this 2520 day prophecy supposed to be?

[Alchemy]

So where in Leviticus 26 is this 2520 day prophecy supposed to be?

LOLOL...

That is exactly the point! lolol

On four occasions in Leviticus 26 the term "seven times" is mentioned. If you take 7 and multiply it by 360 prophetic days, you get 2520 literal years. Well, not really.

The point being it takes all four curses (actually five) to fulfill all that God had said against Israel. It takes all four (plus the one mentioned that doesn't have seven times associated with it) to complete the curse. This is one of the points James White makes in his article.

William Miller considered the 2520 the first prophecy he interpreted from his studies of prophecy back in the 1800's. Well, William Miller was mistaken! No big deal for me.

[12tribes]

Originally Posted By: 12tribes

So where in Leviticus 26 is this 2520 day prophecy supposed to be?

LOLOL...

That is exactly the point! lolol

On four occasions in Leviticus 26 the term "seven times" is mentioned. If you take 7 and multiply it by 360 prophetic days, you get 2520 literal years. Well, not really.

The point being it takes all four curses (actually five) to fulfill all that God had said against Israel. It takes all four (plus the one mentioned that doesn't have seven times associated with it) to complete the curse. This is one of the points James White makes in his article.

William Miller considered the 2520 the first prophecy he interpreted from his studies of prophecy back in the 1800's. Well, William Miller was mistaken! No big deal for me.

Thanks for the info I was wondering how they got it, I thought it might have something to do with that. I don't believe it though cause we would be given a specific time prophecy if it was not in parts.

[jasd]

>>Again, my point exactly.<<

What!?—help me out, what is your point exactly?

Bring it in from the elliptical to center point.

>>Abuse on top of abuse from those who support the 2520 prophecy. This is all you get.<<

Do I hear a mewl?—if so, what!?—can you be specific? I’m missing something; how have I abused you?

>>Put words in my mouth<<

What!?—what words exactly? [/head spinning]

“Say what!?” –Pogo

>>as if I need to defend these false accusations.<<

What!?—what accusations, exactly, have been made against you?

Center point, good fellow.

>>jasd, you have not made any point to substantiate the 2520.<<

Okay, for the record: you are not required to believe as I. I can accept that your perceptions and mine differ. That said, the texts are self-evidentiary, without need for my substantiation.

>>Here is what James White said; http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH18640126-V23-09__B.pdf#view=fit

I am not aware of any of the pioneers of the church or Sister White challenging what Brother White said here.<<

Umm, do you forget that James White originally embraced and advanced the 2520-year prophecy? It was only later that he apostatized. Yeah, infallible doctrines were tipsy-topped when he and others began to practice ‘higher criticism’ exposition (even way back then, eh?). As I recollect, it was at the time when the 1863 chart was adopted that the 2520-year prophecy of Leviticus 26 was abandoned (Because he couldn’t reconcile the adverbial “seven”, which he assumed was applicable to all “seven times” texts. Unfortunately, he failed to notice that the adverbial was used in only the texts Leviticus 26:18, 21. Well, so much for his exegesis).

Is James White thought by the .Org to have been a prophet?

Anyway, re “Sister White”: did you know that she supported the 1843 and the 1850 charts containing the 2520-year prophecy?—and said of the 2300 and the 70-weeks prophecies that each were but a part of a larger time prophecy?—which she named “great prophetic period”?—which, of necessity, could have only been the 2520-year prophecy?—which, again, was a major component of both the 1843 and the 1850 charts she endorsed?

“The [1850] chart is being executed in Boston. God is in it. Manuscript Releases, volume 15, 213.” [ed.jasd]

>>...or Sister White challenging what Brother White said here.<<

I remind that “Sister White” did not challenge James White re his dogma re the Trinity either. Is she your litmus? If so, then you must embrace the 2520-year prophecy, as she never disavowed it.

From what Book and chapter of Writ do you suppose she drew her 2520-year prophecy from?—do you recourse to a lexical argument or do you subscribe to a divine revelation received by your prophet in the night seasons?

Re dreams Joseph interpreted: how was it grammatically established that “7 cows were 7 years and that 7 ears of grain were 7 years; or that branches and baskets represented days?—cows, ears, branches, and baskets – symbols of time...”

Do you depend upon a magesterium or any other teaching authority for your understanding of Holy Writ?

Prov 25:2 [it is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.

>>http://www.adventistarchives.org/docs/RH/RH18640126-V23-09__B.pdf#view=fit<<

“God would punish them seven times for their sins,

each one on condition that the former did not lead to

repentance, and each one containing its own specific

enumeration of judgments, distinct from those.that

preceded, and regularly increasing in the severity of

their denunciations. Now what is meant by this repeated

expression of seven times ? We reply, It denotes,

not the duration of the punishment, but its intensity

and severity. It is well expressed in the language

of verse 21, thus : " I will bring seven times more

plagues upon you according to your sins." –James White [underlined.mine]

Lev 26:17 ... and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you;

(these words were spoken before even the first pronouncement of “seven times”)

When one is slain – what matters thereafter re the matter of intensifying severity? Nada. Zilch. It becomes a non-issue. How much more severe can punishment be when one is slain? “Seven times” is not a matter of increasing severity but one of duration; that is, a “seven times” duration. Note:

Lev 26:18 ... I will punish you seven times more

Lev 26:21 ... will bring seven times more plagues upon you

Lev 26:24 ... will punish you yet seven times for your sins.

Lev 26:28 ... will chastise you seven times for your sins.

It is only with verses 18 and 21 wherein “seven times” functions adverbially (note that, James White)

For those who fail to apprehend “seven” in Leviticus 26, Gd reprised it in Daniel 4 and 5 with greater explicative.

>>But, the use of the word "times" in Leviticus 26 is not the same use of the word "times" as in Daniel 4! Not at all.<<

“Times” in Leviticus 26 is latent. Okay, you’ve your parameters; so, tell me re the “coins”..., coincidence? So, to what purpose was the redundancy of the second “Mene” written upon the wall?

>>There has never been any Biblical support for this 2520 prophecy. There has never been any support for this 2520 prophecy from Ellen White either.<<

Umm, Gd just went on and on re the “seven times” to hear Himself talk? [/respectfully]

>>These weird connections of measurements in Daniel to Leviticus 26 are just bizarre. They are not supported by proper Bible study.<< [ed.jasd]

I accept that you will not be persuaded; however, “proper Bible study”?—Wha’s THAT?

>>As far as Sister White not saying anything about the Trinity while James White was alive, she did defend the Trinity doctrine after James death! She could have easily addressed this 2520 issue as well if it needed it. But, it was sufficiently settled.<<

She accepted the “2520 issue” from the very beginning of her ministry and never disavowed it thereafter.

Truths are defended in a vigorous and timely manner.

(addendum)

The first Assyrian invsion of Israel occurred c 745 BC.

2520 years minus 745 years is 1775, plus 1 year for the transition from BC to AD arrives at the terminus AD 1776, when a nation is born in 1 day.

AD 1776 is America's Birthday.

Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

It is here in America where the Orthodox, Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, etc… proclaim that though it is the Jews who are Gd’s chosen people…

we are the sons of the living Gd.

The proof is in the pudding.

[Alchemy]

jasd wrote; "Umm, do you forget that James White originally embraced and advanced the 2520-year prophecy? It was only later that he apostatized. Yeah, infallible doctrines were tipsy-topped when he and others began to practice ‘higher criticism’ exposition (even way back then, eh?). As I recollect, it was at the time when the 1863 chart was adopted that the 2520-year prophecy of Leviticus 26 was abandoned (Because he couldn’t reconcile the adverbial “seven”, which he assumed was applicable to all “seven times” texts. Unfortunately, he failed to notice that the adverbial was used in only the texts Leviticus 26:18, 21. Well, so much for his exegesis). "

Yes. James and and most of the pioneers of the SDA Church accepted the 2520 year/day prophecy at first. But, they did not apostatize! As they continued their deep study of this prophecy from Scripture, they saw it couldn't be supported from Scripture! So, they rejected it. And rightfully so.

jasd wrote; "Anyway, re “Sister White”: did you know that she supported the 1843 and the 1850 charts containing the 2520-year prophecy?—and said of the 2300 and the 70-weeks prophecies that each were but a part of a larger time prophecy?—which she named “great prophetic period”?—which, of necessity, could have only been the 2520-year prophecy?—which, again, was a major component of both the 1843 and the 1850 charts she endorsed?"

Yes. I have already mentioned Ellen White's position on the 1843 and 1850 charts. She says God's hand was in them, but also says there were some figures that were wrong on those charts and God would reveal them in time.

jasd wrote; "Do you depend upon a magesterium or any other teaching authority for your understanding of Holy Writ? "

Why would you ask such a question? I have not said anything contrary to the Bible! I am one who staunchly believes in the Bible and the Bible only!

As far as the coins or measurements you find so important, they have nothing to do with Leviticus 26.

[jasd]

Quote:

Quote:jasd

Do you depend upon a magesterium or any other teaching authority for your understanding of Holy Writ?

>>Why would you ask such a question? I have not said anything contrary to the Bible! I am one who staunchly believes in the Bible and the Bible only!<<

Okay, my bad. I asked because you recoursed to James White, Uriah Smith, and EGW.

>>As far as the coins or measurements you find so important, they have nothing to do with Leviticus 26.<<

Okay.