When was authority of man over woman first established?

[Woodenavaklu]

Most Christians seem to mistakenly assume that the authority of man over woman was established in Genesis 3. This is not correct and a study of the pattern in Genesis 1 and 2 will show us why.

I will argue that the authority of man over woman was established in Genesis 2. The reasons are as follows.

It was God who created light. He gave day and night their names. He has authority over day and night.

It was God that created the atmosphere, the sea and the land. He gave them their names. He has authority over them. This authority was manifested on the Sea of Galilee.

He created the animals. He gave man dominion over the animals. The dominion was manifested by God bringing the animals to Adam who then proceeded to name each one. This naming was man's signature of authority over the animals.

The woman was created from Adam's rib. She was brought to Adam by God. Adam gives woman her name thereby establishing his dominion over her.

In today's world naming rights are still a stamp of authority such as when parents give children their names.

Hence the authority of man over the woman has been part of the order of creation since before the fall.

Anyone who argues that we are no longer under the curse are in fact arguing for the resurrection of the authority of the man over women.

[John317]

I will argue that the authority of man over woman was established in Genesis 2. The reasons are as follows.

....He created the animals. He gave man dominion over the animals. The dominion was manifested by God bringing the animals to Adam who then proceeded to name each one. This naming was man's signature of authority over the animals.

The woman was created from Adam's rib. She was brought to Adam by God. Adam gives woman her name thereby establishing his dominion over her...

I don't disagree with you general argument here, but I believe God made Eve the equal of Adam. She was not inferior to Adam in any way. But man and woman were given different functions and roles in life. Equality doesn't mean sameness.

[SivartM]

Who has authority over intersexed people?

[Stan]

well, that is a surprise question.. awesome!

[Gerr]

Who has authority over intersexed people?

Take your pick.

[Tom Wetmore]

As I understand it, in Hebrew culture the naming of someone or something does have significance and shows dominion over that which is named. But to look at an animal that barks and call it a dog is different from giving it a unique and personal name or a proper name such as "Rover". The former merely identifies its kind, so that all creatures like it are called the same. But naming it "Rover" does more and distinguishes it from all other dogs as the dog belonging to you. You have asserted your mastery of the dog, but not necessarily of all other dogs.

But I am not sure the Hebrew offers a great deal of support for your theory.

The word woman is not a proper noun but more an identification of type. (Adam in Hebrew is really not a proper noun either, but a word meaning "man".) The man looked at her and said her type is woman.

The man did not give the woman a unique and proper name until after sin, right after God pronounced the curse in chapter 2. He gave her the name "Eve" (Chavah in Hebrew).

[olger]

A better question might be "When was it last established?"

"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths" (Isaiah 3:12).

[Woodenavaklu]

I don't disagree with you general argument here, but I believe God made Eve the equal of Adam. She was not inferior to Adam in any way. But man and woman were given different functions and roles in life. Equality doesn't mean sameness.

That was something that I forgot to mention in the start of my article and should have, given the eggshells we seem to be stepping on in this issue.

I believe that those of us who are complementarian in nature would agree that in the eyes of God women are of equal value, equal dignity but not equal authority.

[Woodenavaklu]

As I understand it, in Hebrew culture the naming of someone or something does have significance and shows dominion over that which is named. But to look at an animal that barks and call it a dog is different from giving it a unique and personal name or a proper name such as "Rover". The former merely identifies its kind, so that all creatures like it are called the same. But naming it "Rover" does more and distinguishes it from all other dogs as the dog belonging to you. You have asserted your mastery of the dog, but not necessarily of all other dogs.

[Woodenavaklu]

The question may then be asked as to what changed after the fall. I believe a big clue comes from Genesis 3:18 with the reference to thorns and thistles.

In today's world the first thing that comes to mind when thinking of thorns and thistles is pain. Many years ago I walked through a large field of thistles and had thorns come through my trousers even though they were heavy jeans. At the end of the day when I pulled my trousers off I had blood spots all over my legs. I sat there and thought "Genesis 3!"

When we look at the woman she also experiences pain. Pain in birth and pain in relationships as her tendency now is to struggle against the authority of man and for him to respond with force.

What I see occurring when things are restored will be the removal of pain, both in the natural realm and in the realm of inter-relationships. This is evidence when Revelation speaks of the leaves of the tree of life being used for the healing of the nations.

[SivartM]

When we look at the woman she also experiences pain. Pain in birth and pain in relationships as her tendency now is to struggle against the authority of man and for him to respond with force.

So abusive relationships are the fault of the women?

[doug yowell]

I don't disagree with you general argument here, but I believe God made Eve the equal of Adam. She was not inferior to Adam in any way. But man and woman were given different functions and roles in life. Equality doesn't mean sameness.

Ja,shure!

[doug yowell]

So abusive relationships are the fault of the women?

Only if it's the man who's being abused.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: John317

I don't disagree with you general argument here, but I believe God made Eve the equal of Adam. She was not inferior to Adam in any way. But man and woman were given different functions and roles in life. Equality doesn't mean sameness.

That was something that I forgot to mention in the start of my article and should have, given the eggshells we seem to be stepping on in this issue.

I believe that those of us who are complementarian in nature would agree that in the eyes of God women are of equal value, equal dignity but not equal authority.

I think that another critical question that needs to be addressed is what is/was the nature of that authority supposed to be like? Most contemporary western Christians have a natural resistence to the word authority because they always equate it with abusive power. Americans are particularly infected by this love of autonomy, resisting any suggestion that anyone should rule over them.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

Who has authority over intersexed people?

Take your pick.

I think it has to be the other one.

[SivartM]

Originally Posted By: SivartM

So abusive relationships are the fault of the women?

Only if it's the man who's being abused.

[SivartM]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

Take your pick.

I think it has to be the other one.

My question was serious, so forgive me if the answers were serious, but I don't understand either of them. Take my pick... as to who's in charge of the intersexed? The other... intersexed people? I'm sincerely interested in hearing people's opinions, so if either of you could elaborate I'd appreciate it.

[Woodenavaklu]

I think that another critical question that needs to be addressed is what is/was the nature of that authority supposed to be like? Most contemporary western Christians have a natural resistence to the word authority because they always equate it with abusive power. Americans are particularly infected by this love of autonomy, resisting any suggestion that anyone should rule over them.

In the books of Moses a woman could make a vow but it only had force if a male in authority permitted it. When she was single her father could override her vow. Once she was married it was the husband that could do so.

St Paul referred to the laws of Moses as the reason a woman should not have authority over a man. From this we can deduce that the bible regards those laws as still being in force.

[Tom Wetmore]

I'm not so sure Jesus viewed the laws of Moses that way.

[Woodenavaklu]

I'm not so sure Jesus viewed the laws of Moses that way.

If Jesus didn't view the laws of Moses that way then what was He doing pulling St Paul out of the Sanhedrin and sending him out as a missionary and to write over half of the New Testament Scriptures. Did Jesus make a mistake?

[Tom Wetmore]

Read his sermon on the mount.

[Alchemy]

Interesting point, Woodenavaklu.

I would agree with that. But, Genesis 3 does re-establish this authority after sin had entered in. Otherwise, I wouldn't have a clue.

[Neil D]

St Paul referred to the laws of Moses as the reason a woman should not have authority over a man. From this we can deduce that the bible regards those laws as still being in force.

[doug yowell]

I'm not so sure Jesus viewed the laws of Moses that way.

"They have Moses and the prophets, let them hear them." Strange that the One who gave Moses the laws would seek to eliminate them upon arrival.

[doug yowell]

[if Jesus didn't view the laws of Moses that way, perhaps our views of Paul are wrong.....

Are we subtlety attempting to create a possible disunity in the Bible? "As Moses was faithful in all his house..." A Prophet will arise among you, like unto me..." Interjecting cultural concerns in order to iron out "discrepancies" in principles creates more questions than it answers.