ClubV12 Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 At what point do comments become hate crimes? At what point do those who are anti-Seventh-day Adventists get called on it? At what point do comments stop being sincere questions or the occasional comment and cross the line into the ONLY purpose is a thinly disguised cutting remark of anti Adventism? How long would such chronic abusers of hate posts be tolerated by gays? By blacks? By Muslims? By Mormons? By Adventists? By society? By THIS forum??? She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.” 18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her. Acts 16: 17-18 Notice she never actually said anything that was "hateful" and she spoke the "truth"! But Paul was not so easily deceived and he took action to resolve the problem. Quote
Moderators Bravus Posted October 23, 2011 Moderators Posted October 23, 2011 My own view - and like many of my views it doesn't fit the 'typical liberal' template - is that hate crimes are just crimes, and ought to be treated as such. We don't need special hate crime laws, since all the actual crimes are covered by existing laws. Applying that reasoning to the issue you raise, I don't believe special rules are needed. Improper posts of any stripe are covered by the existing forum rules. There is no orthodoxy test for posting here, and nor should there ever be. Quote Truth is important
ClubV12 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Posted October 23, 2011 SPAM.... Bravus, SPAM, it's what hate mongers do! It's what the woman in Acts was doing to Paul. It's distracting, confusing, kills threads and makes it impossible to have anything approaching a serious conversation. In some cases, yes, it rises to the level of hate crimes in my opinion. Not just "law breaking" particularly grevious law breaking done from a spirit of hate. It needs to be addressed... By the way, are you gay? Just asking, no offense meant. You wouldn't mind if I asked you that in every thread you post to, would you? Simple question.... Quote
SivartM Posted October 23, 2011 Posted October 23, 2011 SPAM.... Bravus, SPAM, it's what hate mongers do! It's what the woman in Acts was doing to Paul. It's distracting, confusing, kills threads and makes it impossible to have anything approaching a serious conversation. In some cases, yes, it rises to the level of hate crimes in my opinion. Not just "law breaking" particularly grevious law breaking done from a spirit of hate. It needs to be addressed.. What sort of post are you referring to here, exactly? I'm not being antagonistic, just trying to understand... does this concern all posts here that disagree with Adventist views, or only ones that do so rudely? I agree that callousness is a discussion-killer. I wouldn't call it hate crime though. This is the internet, and most of us are adults; it's not against the law for people to be rude to each other, and it shouldn't cause most people a significant amount of stress, or they probably shouldn't discuss controversial topics very often. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Administrators Gail Posted October 23, 2011 Administrators Posted October 23, 2011 Hate doesn't become anyone, no matter the direction they believe. Makes me wonder what the motive could be. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Moderators Bravus Posted October 23, 2011 Moderators Posted October 23, 2011 I'm honestly not seeing these 'hate' posts - maybe I'm not frequenting the right forums? Or maybe I have the wrong glasses on. I agree that posting the same things over and over and over again is a problem, and IMO one that moderators could get more active in dealing with around here. But I don't think it's confined to any particular set of views. That was my earlier point: the problem is a posting style, not a belief system. And moderation ought to focus on posting styles, not belief systems. (Just for the record, not gay, but not at all offended by the question. I don't believe there's anything wrong with being gay, but only somewhere between 4 and 10% of the population is, and I'm not. Anyway, I know it was only an example, so let's not derail the thread.) Quote Truth is important
Administrators Gail Posted October 23, 2011 Administrators Posted October 23, 2011 Should Adventists be discouraged by being hated anyway? Jesus told His followers that they would be, no matter what denomination they're from. I think it's just a taste of something worse that is to come. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
ClubV12 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Posted October 23, 2011 Yeah, Paul was probably wrong to speak so rudely to that poor woman in Acts. OK, glad we solved we that, take no action, everythings cool, everyone as you were. :) Quote
Administrators Gail Posted October 23, 2011 Administrators Posted October 23, 2011 I wasn't meaning to be glib. I was just thinking (and thanks for giving me food for thought) that it was predicted by our Lord that we would have such a trial. Of course it is wrong- it has been wrong all through history. Jesus said it would come from our families, even. Mrs. White talked about our having to gather warmth from their coldness, etc: Quote: Already the judgments of God are abroad in the land, as seen in storms, in floods, in tempests, in earthquakes, in peril by land and by sea. The great I AM is speaking to those who make void His law. When God’s wrath is poured out upon the earth, who will then be able to stand? Now is the time for God’s people to show themselves true to principle. When the religion of Christ is most held in contempt, when His law is most despised, then should our zeal be the warmest and our courage and firmness the most unflinching. To stand in defense of truth and righteousness when the majority forsake us, to fight the battles of the Lord when champions are few—this will be our test. At this time we must gather warmth from the coldness of others, courage from their cowardice, and loyalty from their treason. The nation will be on the side of the great rebel leader. That was what I was thinking. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
ClubV12 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Posted October 23, 2011 Paul certainly had faced and would face considerably more serious problems than this woman represented. Yet, he took action. Drawing warmth from hate is one thing, we also have an obligation to do something about the "hate" if we can. To protect others if not yourself. The internet is no excuse. We know some folks have committed suicide from being harrassed on the internet. Being behind a key board does not excuse anything you say, post or do. There are real world ramifications for such actions. I suspect there were plenty of people around who really thought Paul made a serious mistake. That woman wasn't hurting anyone, she wasn't being "mean", she spoke the truth and even supported those men who "took her job" from her. Some things are insidious in nature, not readily apparent as to where they lead or how. Seemingly OK in their nature or talk. In many cases most are convinced these folks have been harshly dealt with without reason. For decades tobacco was considered like that, what could possibly go wrong? Politicians come to mind, seriously, do you actually believe some of their off the wall promises and statements? Maybe at first, then you start to think about the details and realize the whole "plank" they are presenting is filled with termites. It might be to late before you realize it though.... Quote
Administrators Gail Posted October 23, 2011 Administrators Posted October 23, 2011 Club, during the night I thought about the situation more, and by this morning was prepared to do more than you asked. I came to the Moderator forum this morning and found that a resolution had been already worked out. The woman that you reference was demon-inspired. I wasn't prepared to go THAT far in my thinking in this case, but I did consider that I prefer to see on the board are contributions that are edifying in nature. Uplifting would be even better! I don't think it matters which direction one is coming from, we can all at least seek to make the world a better place for our having been there. I apologize to you for my delay (and thank Stan for popping in at what my clock said was 4-something in the morning). I am sorry. It wasn't for neglect but I felt I needed more time to research the most recent history. Thank you for your input! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
ClubV12 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Posted October 23, 2011 Bless that womans heart that Paul removed that evil spirit from. May we find her in the kingdom in due time. We should never move in haste, all though, I do at times and the Lord is working with me on that. Quote
Administrators Gail Posted October 23, 2011 Administrators Posted October 23, 2011 And me as well. I have banned quite a few just cause I'd had enough. Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 23, 2011 Administrators Posted October 23, 2011 A major factor here is one of perception. When it comes to perceived emotion and tone, we tend to read what others write in our own voice. That means the rude tone we read is more what we assign it in our own voice in our own head. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
ClubV12 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Posted October 23, 2011 Thats a valid point Tom. By the way, when I cited the example of the lady in Acts, I wasn't thinking of her being evil doer inspired or anything. The illustration was how difficult it can be to discern what is and isn't acceptable. Surely many around this woman were convinced Paul had acted to hastily, it's not like she was exactly saying anything "wrong". It was more complicated than that. I wonder, what would have become of her had she NOT provoked Paul to "frustration"? Quote
jasd Posted October 24, 2011 Posted October 24, 2011 QR frame: Not taking anything away from St Paul, but sometimes he could be a curmudgeon. And if we read Writ perspicaciously we might find that the woman being referenced in these posts lived in her own ‘hood’ – whilst St Paul was just a traveling preacher man apassin’ through her ‘hood’. She had the right of way... Then again, mebbe if St Paul had been in his closet praying, instead of moseying about in her ‘hood’ – she wouldn’t have had opportunity to compliment him and his companion. Some people, eh?—cant even take a compliment without getting all gnarly. Lucky for her that he just cast a demon out from her – he coulda pulled his citizenship papers on her. Ouch!—that would have hurt. Quote
ClubV12 Posted October 24, 2011 Author Posted October 24, 2011 Acts 16: 18 "...She kept this up for many days." Paul was a patient man. :) Quote
Moderators Bravus Posted October 24, 2011 Moderators Posted October 24, 2011 So, if I understand the whole thread so far (which seems to have linked in another discussion from another thread at some point): * It's OK for the orthodox to be like Paul and rebuke the unorthodox * But the unorthodox better just shut up (seemed to be the message of the OP) Have I got that right? Only slight problem is that orthodoxy ain't always that simple to define... Quote Truth is important
CoAspen Posted October 24, 2011 Posted October 24, 2011 Since it seems that only only a couple of people know what this thread is all about.......I have a simple question......Why is it even here?? Is their a dual purpose?? Quote
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 24, 2011 Administrators Posted October 24, 2011 Only slight problem is that orthodoxy ain't always that simple to define... Oh, it's simple enough if no question is allowed to be asked. The Sacredness of Questioning Everything Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
LifeHiscost Posted October 24, 2011 Posted October 24, 2011 A major factor here is one of perception. When it comes to perceived emotion and tone, we tend to read what others write in our own voice. That means the rude tone we read is more what we assign it in our own voice in our own head. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted October 24, 2011 Posted October 24, 2011 Quote: perspicaciously Huh? God knows, and understands. Quote Lift Jesus up!!
LifeHiscost Posted October 24, 2011 Posted October 24, 2011 Originally Posted By: Bravus Only slight problem is that orthodoxy ain't always that simple to define... Oh, it's simple enough if no question is allowed to be asked. The Sacredness of Questioning Everything But it does get funnier all the time. God blesses! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
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