What is your understanding of dispensationalism?

[cheddar]

Don't worry about the big bad wolf, Gibs. He's never been right about anything. Just like the Pharisees were never right in their day.

He's probably just some geek behind a computer anyway - nothing to worry about.

[Lysimachus]

Don't worry about the big bad wolf, Gibs. He's never been right about anything. Just like the Pharisees were never right in their day.

He's probably just some geek behind a computer anyway - nothing to worry about.

Ya know, after all, I did go to school for computer science in networking, so there ya goo! :D

[Lysimachus]

Lysimachus,

Sure, the problem is,

They didn't count one of the 1 years in. First you count down through BC 1 and then start with AD 1 and count up. That will make it end then with the year AD 33. That made their count have to go up a yr. too far. Many have made that mistake.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Problem is, we can arrive at AD 34 by counting backward from AD 51, as Shea succinctly demonstrates this. It's very easy math by adding up the number of years that Paul himself provides.

[Gibs]

All, take it back to Dispensationalism.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[BobRyan]

I'm not going to get into this dispensationalist thing a lot but one thing they advocate is the moving the 70'th week of Dan. down to the end. That can not be as no one can do that and God isn't either. They take the "cut off" here to mean the 70'th week but it is the Messiah that was cut off in the middle of the week is what the prophecy is about.

Agreed - in Daniel 9 the Bible says that the entire 70 weeks are "cut off" or "set aside for" the people of Israel - however dispensationalists start slicing and dicing the contiguous timeline of 70 weeks of year - into a wild useless timeline with "undefined gap of time" inserted near the end.

Sadly - this can not be done with any Bible timelines - not the 70 years that start Daniel 9 and not the 70 weeks that end it. Doing such a thing makes the timeline worthless as a 70 Year or 70 weeks-of-years unit.

in Christ,

Bob

[12tribes]

Quote:

Nope Lysimachus,

BC 457 down through BC 1 is 457 years from ad ad 1 through ad 33 is 33 yrs, added it comes to 490 yrs.

Ya has to count the year 457 as one yr 456 is yr 2 and finally bc 1 you have 457 yrs, then and you count ad 1 as the first yr. and ad 33 is the 33 yr.and that is for sure. You have BC 1 followed by AD 1 and that is how it has to be.

You started with a Jubilee yr. BC 457 and 10 cycles ends AD 33, then AD 34 is the Jubilee again.

I rest my case, and whether you can agree or not is OK.

His Blessings to you anyway.

Looks like someone has trouble counting. 457-456 is 1 year, We start in 457 and by taking 1 step we arrive in 456 until we reach 34 AD

[Gibs]

12tribes,

it is 457-1=456-1=455 and down to one gives you the same amout as if you started with 1 to 457, 457 years, ya have to count 457 as one year and ya didn't.

When you are counting up you add 1 each time, when you are counting down you subtract 1 each time. 1 to 457 is 457 yrs and is the same 457 to 1.

457 is one yr. and 456 is one more down and 1+1=2

Take it back to dispenstionalism ya all,

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Lysimachus]

The whole 490-year period extends to A.D. 34. Now your calculator will say, 457 + 34 = 491 years or 490 – 457 = 33 A.D. The calculator is set up on the cardinal numerical system: - 3 - 2 - 1 0 1 2 3. This system assumes a “0” between “-1” and “1”. In ancient times the ordinal numerical system was used. This means that there was not a “0” year between 1 B.C. and A.D. 1. The number line from B.C. to A.D. looks like this: 3 2 1 1 2 3. If we measure 3 B.C. to A.D. 3 on the cardinal line, we get 6 years. If we measure this span of time on the ordinal line, we get 5 years. The ordinal calculation demonstrates that the 70 weeks or 490 years, from 457 B.C., extends to A.D. 34. On the calculator we get 457 + 34 = 491; then, we subtract the zero year—which is equivalent to one whole imaginary year = 490.

[Gibs]

Seems like some posts got lost here but must say this,

The year BC 457 is 1 yr, 456 is your number 2 yr, counting down to and including BC 1 you will have 457 yrs same as if you counted BC 1 back to BC 457 so then You count AD 1 through AD 33 and that is 33 yrs. 33 added to 457 equals 490 yrs and you can't do a thing about it, as it is a fact that remains. AD 33 then is the end yr. of the 70 wks of yrs.

It is simple addition, why is it so hard for some to catch? Anyway that is it, get to figuring.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Bird's Eye View]

I have a particular dislike of Dispensational Theology. My understanding is that it reads like it was straight out of the "Left Behind" series of books.

Not only that,it has a very unsettling history of where it's doctrine originated. You could start by looking up Cyrus Scofield and a mysterious "Group of Six".

[Dr. Rich]

Dispensationalism is a fancy word that means God changed His mind. I don't buy that though as my research shows that God never changed anything, it was man who changed their understanding about God that made the difference.

God's rules have always been to obey Him and He will be your God or don't obey and God will then refuse to be your God. We all have a choice, either obey or not.

[Lysimachus]

Seems like some posts got lost here but must say this,

The year BC 457 is 1 yr, 456 is your number 2 yr, counting down to and including BC 1 you will have 457 yrs same as if you counted BC 1 back to BC 457 so then You count AD 1 through AD 33 and that is 33 yrs. 33 added to 457 equals 490 yrs and you can't do a thing about it, as it is a fact that remains. AD 33 then is the end yr. of the 70 wks of yrs.

It is simple addition, why is it so hard for some to catch? Anyway that is it, get to figuring.

Please refer here for response.

[hfsturges]

Please pardon this belated reply:

What is the "modified dispensationalism" that is taught in Adventism?

First of all, most Adventists know very little about the covenant. Books have been written, most of which are devotional in content, and make no effort to answer the hard questions about the covenant. Some are partial, and focus on the meaning of "old covenant" and "new covenant," often with no description of what these covenants are.

What I have come across is the teaching that the old covenant was in force throughout the Old Testament and brought to an end at Calvary (not clear that it was "confirmed"). Associated with this is that the ceremonial law was part of the old covenant, and of course sacrifice and oblation did come to an end at Calvary. Evangelicals claim that the law was an integral part of the old covenant. And if the Old Covenant came to an end at Calvary, so did the Ten Commandment law!

I think that all agree that Jesus Christ is the Mediator of the New Covenant.

Adventists are put in a bind by this teaching. How can we salvage the Sabbath and the law when we teach this view? Adventists point to Genesis 3:1-3 as having universal application. They point to the Ten Commandment law as being universal. They point to Galatians 3:29 showing that all Christians are "Abraham's seed" and as spiritual Jews, need to keep the law. And they point to Jesus keeping the Sabbath (But this was expected as He was a Jew).

It seems that Adventists have to do "work-around" if they hold the belief that I described. This is the "modified dispensationalism" that I see.

[hfsturges]

A modest proposal:

Populations are often divided into two groups -- the religious and the secular. In the church (or in Israel) there are again two groups -- the believing remnant and the unbelieving multitude.

In Exodus 19:4-6 God presented the Abrahamic Covenant (the new covenant - EGW PP 370-373). God asked for a response. The people responded with "all that the Lord hath said we will do" (Exodus 19:8). It was an attempt to covenant with God as equals! God accepted this response, as grace cannot change the life without our decision and consent (DA 668). See also Deut 5:28,29.

Abraham's response was to fall on his face in awe before the holiness and majesty of God, and believe that God would do what He said. His obedience would come through grace.

The promise of the people at Sinai was in ignorance of their own sinful state, and of the holiness of God. God led them to see His glory at Sinai, and they were terrified, rather than accepting. In spite of this they went through a ratification ceremony. Since this ceremony was "first" before Jesus confirmation of the covenant on Calvary, it is called the "first" or "old" covenant.

Immediately after the ceremony, Moses and Joshua were called into the mount. They waited six days before Moses alone was called into the cloud to communicate with God for 40 days. At the end of this time God sent them back down the mountain because the people had corrupted themselves.

Moses and Joshua found the people in the midst of a heathen rebellious festival, worshiping a golden calf. They were even thinking of a return to Egypt.

This was the classic, historical "old covenant" which lasted just 46 days! It was never officially renewed. However, the concept of salvation by works (a corrupted view that they were saved simply by the performance of sacrifices and sanctuary services) returned and became the predominant view when Jesus came.

At the same time there was a "remnant" who kept in view the meaning of the sacrifices, that the Redeemer would come and through His death being salvation.

[Lysimachus]

Ooops, I posted this in a wrong place.

[Gibs]

One thing dispensationalists want to do is move the 70'th week of Dan.9 allotted to the Jews down to the last seven yrs of time.

Well it can't be done, that 70'th week fell in time right after that 69'th and no man can move time. That 70'th week ended AD 33 and is past now almost 2,000 yrs.

We just may be closer to the end now than 7 yrs.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[Lysimachus]

I'd like you a lot more Gibs if you would give up your 33 AD silliness.

Just sayin...

[Gibs]

Lys,

When you can count BC 457 through BC 1 and get 457 yrs we can agree. Or you could do it starting BC 1 and count through BC 457 and still get 457 yrs and 33 more and you have the 490. But/////////////////////

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[phkrause]

I'd like you a lot more Gibs if you would give up your 33 AD silliness.

Just sayin...

Lysimachus, does it really matter? He's only off one year. He knows what events took place, if he wants to disagree on the date that would be his problem. It doesn't hurt him, you or I one iota. Like I said we all know the events that happen, in 457 BC, in AD 34, and 1844, period.

[Lysimachus]

Originally Posted By: Lysimachus

I'd like you a lot more Gibs if you would give up your 33 AD silliness.

Just sayin...

Lysimachus, does it really matter? He's only off one year. He knows what events took place, if he wants to disagree on the date that would be his problem. It doesn't hurt him, you or I one iota. Like I said we all know the events that happen, in 457 BC, in AD 34, and 1844, period.

Hence the wink. I was giving him a hard time over it.

My issue with the 33 AD though was more to do with the fact that it has a chain reaction, effecting and messing a lot of other things up.

[Gibs]

Well it just so happens Gibs is not off a yr. as 457 yrs plus 33 yrs equals 490 or 70 wks of yrs. BC 457 a Jubilee yr and AD 34 is a Jubilee yr.. AD 33 was the last yr of the 10'th Jubilee cycle of the 490 years and then a new beginning, a Jubilee, AD 34. Take it or leave it, it is correct or whether you like it or not don't matter. The Jubilee yr is always yr one of the next 49 cycle.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.