What does Occupy Wall Street Want?

[Robert]

Referring to 2T 132, Bonnie says,

Quote:

Wait a minute. Doesn't it (the bible?) also say "We will build and another will not inhabit?

Another won't inhabit because no one will ever die.

[Robert]

The poorest people can be and are guilty of all of the above....

We have the poor for many reasons. One is the wealthy have the competitive edge. If there were no poor there would be no one to exploit. That cuts way down on profits, now doesn't it bonnie?

No one is equating poverty with holiness, no one! Jesus was righteous because there was no bent to self in His life. Poverty was the result of no self-seeking in Christ's life.

[Robert]

Occupy would like to invent a process where they are enriched by non-production, in contrast to the book of Proverbs.

No, many of them want Washington to support the little guy. Instead the laws are written by the rich and powerful. After all they have a dozen or two politicians in their pockets.

[Robert]

Nice excuse for those that choose to fail.

I guess Jesus failed at your rich club - the pull your bootstraps up and stick you chest out club - because He was a failure. Its that your message, bonnie?

[bonnie]

We have the poor for many reasons. One is the wealthy have the competitive edge. If there were no poor there would be no one to exploit. That cuts way down on profits, now doesn't it bonnie?

[bonnie]

I guess Jesus failed at your rich club - the pull your bootstraps up and stick you chest out club - because He was a failure. Its that your message, bonnie?

No,never considered Christ a failure. No,I don't have a rich club.I am wealthy but certainly not wealthy in the green stuff.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "the pull up your bootstraps".Obviously we mean two different things.To me that means doing the best with what God has given me, instead of whining He didn't give me more or the other guy took it"

It means enjoying the fruits of my labor.

I may be wrong but I don't believe you live what you preach. You really talk the talk,but I doubt if you are walking the walk.Why not?

To claim a belief and then not live it to the best of your ability is hypocritical at best.

You sound really bitter and envious of those that have more and are not giving that to you. Not a very satisfying way to live.

Maybe you are as selfish and grasping as those you condemn so freely and are looking for a way to absolve your own lack.Don't know,but that happens frequently by many.

The wealthy have their own problems to deal with,but not more so than the bitter and envious.

As the servant with one talent,I don't believe that God is going to be to interested in listening to me say,"I failed because the wealthy exploited me" or God,I did only enough to get by to prove to you where my treasure was"

He is going to ask what I did with what he gave me.I don't believe I will face your brand of condemnation for enjoyment in life,for achieving goals,for providing for my family or for what I do for others.I might if I spend my life making excuses about the other guy or trying to prove virtue and reward by doing the minimum with what He has given me.

For you,what counts is a few chapters/verses in the bible.Many people do that to prove what they want to believe.Generally as in any book, taking what is written as a whole puts far more balance.But that might take away your (general)excuses. That is for others to deal with.I am "stuck" with Genesis to Rev. There is where you and your very narrow,obsessive view will lose every time.

I will continue to enjoy what I can in this life,I will continue to work for that evil green stuff,I will continue to use what God has given me(pull up by the bootstraps)

You can continue the envy and bitterness and condemnation.I am fairly certain I enjoy my life more,as I believe God intended.And yes,I am well aware this life is temporary and none of it can go with me

[Robert]

To me that means doing the best with what God has given me, instead of whining ....

So God gave you talent to compete and have the edge over others....Is that what you are saying? If so you are placing human attributes onto a Holy God.

[Robert]

For you,what counts is a few chapters/verses in the bible.....

Here's another clear quotation:

1 Tim 1:6 ...godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that.

9 People who want to get rich (i.e., are not content with just food & clothing) fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction.

10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith (abandoned Christ) and pierced themselves with many griefs.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

To me that means doing the best with what God has given me, instead of whining ....

So God gave you talent to compete and have the edge over others....Is that what you are saying? If so you are placing human attributes onto a Holy God.

No,that is not what I am saying. He gave me certain talents,many have more than I,I have more than some others.

What I believe God says to me is to use what talents he gave me to the best of my ability. And no,I don't always succeed in that,but I get up the next morning and try again.I don't blame someone else

That ability may not always be as great as some,not my concern.I believe God expects me to to the absolute best I can with what he gave me.I couldn't give a fig what the neighbor down the road does with the talents God gave him.That is not something I have to answer for.

[bonnie]

1 Tim 1:6 ...godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that.

[bonnie]

When the time comes to face Good,there is only one response I want.I admit it is self serving,self interest and to bad if that doesn't suit you.

I have a lot of difficulty reconciling your "gospel" to what the Lord expects. Somehow I have my doubts as to a positive outcome if I tell him...

Lord,I didn't want to leave the wrong impression or be self seeking. You now those people I was able to help,I made sure I did not have any personal enjoyment in that as that would be looking for a reward.That talent you gave me,I didn't want to be like the first two in the parable or look like I was competing .You must have made a mistake calling the first two good and faithful servants and the one lazy and wicked.They actually did business with those evil bankers and I certainly didn't want to engage in capitalism as they did.I know how you feel about that.I took my "talent" and buried it,kept it safe.No one ever saw it and no one had to compete against it.

Those children you entrusted to me,I made sure they never received more than the neighbor children.All I gave them was food and clothing, as all children are equal to me that is what the neighbor children received as well. And I never took one minute of personal enjoyment in those children you allowed me to have. Oh,let's not forget the men/women. I never favored my husband,I loved all men equally,just as you love all equally. To prove how virtuous I was I kept my lifestyle at a minimum.

Knowing how you hate self centered,self seeking people I made sure I have never personally enjoyed one minute of the life you have blessed me with.

Sorry Robert,you can preach this type gospel that you don't follow until the second coming and you will never,ever come close to defeating,correcting or improving on what God has said. He has said far more than the verse here and there you use to correct and over ride His many other words.Taken altogether they cannot be improved on,but you can pick and choose in an attempt to try.

If that works for you have at it.If I am wrong and you actually make an attempt to follow what you preach I apologize,If I am not wrong that is your problem not mine.

I am going to continue to enjoy my life,especially my children and grandchildren.Yes,I will enjoy them more than the neighbors child.I will continue to "favor" my husband over other men.I will continue to take satisfaction and enjoyment in a job well done,just as I will with the opportunity to help someone else.

I will enjoy nice things and I will have more than food and clothing.

[olger]

Originally Posted By: olger

Occupy would like to invent a process where they are enriched by non-production, in contrast to the book of Proverbs.

No, many of them want Washington to support the little guy. Instead the laws are written by the rich and powerful. After all they have a dozen or two politicians in their pockets.

I don't buy any of that poor me schtick.

Rejoice always,

G

[Guest]

You and Bonnie aren't thinking of livestock - you are thinking of the green stuff the banks accept. This is not what Eccl. is speaking of....Nice try.

Livestock WAS the green stuff back then! That's how they counted wealth. Land and livestock. You mean you didn't know that? Livestock was just like money.

[Guest]

No doubt there are some Bible verses hard to understand.

It's hard for YOU to understand, because it doesn't fit with your idea of what the Bible MUST say.

[Robert]

Bonnie, you didn't address what I quoted from the Bible. You just attacked it....Try again.

[Robert]

Originally Posted By: Robert

No doubt there are some Bible verses hard to understand.

It's hard for YOU to understand, because it doesn't fit with your idea of what the Bible MUST say.

There are some hard to understand unless you look at the immediate context, but you don't...so there.

[Robert]

I don't buy any of that poor me schtick.

G

I see a lot of pride from you and bonnie.

“God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

[bonnie]

Bonnie, you didn't address what I quoted from the Bible. You just attacked it....Try again.

No,I didn't attack it. I think what you quoted is only part of the equation. Combine what you quoted with the rest on the topic of work/happiness/personal satisfaction and you have

a pretty good solution for this world we live in.Work/happiness/personal satisfaction is sin to you.To you that means someone is self centered and storing their riches on earth.Yet I am quite sure the first two are something that you routinely engage in.Personal satisfaction in your own labors and a job well done would be hard to come by with bitterness and envy.

Many of the wealthy along with the poor will do just what you do,taking out select passages to prove what they want it to say.Maybe that works for you,it doesn't for me.

You claim a small minority oppress and stop the majority from setting a goal,working hard,raising their standard of living.Then if someone does raise their standard of living it is not a good thing.It could only be accomplished thru cut throat competition,endless quest for wealth and denying someone else.Pretty handy excuse for failure.Your vision of competition is a little skewed.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: olger

I don't buy any of that poor me schtick.

G

I see a lot of pride from you and bonnie.

“God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

I see a lot of bitterness and envy coming from you.It is always the fault of someone else,never your own lack.

You cannot work or employ without competitiveness to one degree or another.Even those that do as little as possible and rely on others are competing for charity dollars,becoming resentful when there aren't more dollars to grab.

During the care of my terminally ill mother,which BTW,was the toughest job I have ever done,and yes,that evil word personally rewarding. I was frustrated by the inability to find special needs products that would have simplified her remaining months.

Over time I have redesigned some of these products and put them up for sale.

Recently I was surprised at how fast a new item took off. It is not off the charts expensive,but beyond a doubt I am going to first pay for supplies,then time/equipment,and then that dirty word PROFIT.The last experience I had with something like this,it was again something not available elsewhere. Then those dirty competitors showed up.Within a couple of months I had over twenty competitors for the same.They did the same as I did,took an idea out there,this time mine,either added their own improvements/service,some the identical item as mine and went for it.Didn't hurt me a bit.There is not a limited number of buyers and most of us will end up with our own niche. Some that have succeeded are more expensive than I am,they have found their own market.Some are less expensive and they have found theirs.The success of each is a strong work ethic,a desire for a job well done and personal satisfaction in that.Those only interested in cutting my throat did not succeed.

When I was looking to hire someone new,it did not take long to spot the ones that were not going to be with me long.

First thing I learned was teaming a excellent employee that had a strong work ethic and took personal satisfaction in a job well done and someone with your mindset is that rather than the excellent employee pulling the mediocre work ethic up,the mediocre pulled the excellent employee down and I ended up with two that had to go.

A strong work ethic is rarely about money first. Someone with your attitude I would not keep around for a week.

[bonnie]

BTW,the fact that I charge for this product and earn a profit enables me to do what I could not otherwise do.

In dealing with those that have special needs it can get beyond the means of some to purchase. When I realize I have someone in that catagory,the profit I have made enables me to help them in ways I otherwise could not.

Even online, it is not difficult to spot the whiners that actually can help themselves a little better than they are.Bitterness and envy come thru pretty plainly.

The contrast between two recent buyers is sharp and unmistakable.

One woman purchased a item and before shipment contacted me with some requests if possible.It meant extra work and time but it could be done.It is obvious she is not wealthy and is on disability.For her,she was so appreciative to find someone willing to try to work with her needs,she asked me to keep track of time and if I could wait till her next disability check came she would compensate me.

The other read to me from your greed book and taking advantage of the poor downtrodden/oppressed before she ordered.Yet,I ran across other purchases she had made online,not cheap.

I had already decided to provide an extra for the first buyer.Again,profit allows me to do that,but it should go without saying she will not be billed for the extra time.

The second buyer will get exactly what she paid for.She needs to cut back on her self centered purchases and concentrate on her particular needs

[Robert]

Combine what you quoted with the rest on the topic of work/happiness/personal satisfaction and you have a pretty good solution for this world we live in.

You mean the world under Lucifer - he is the god of this world. So it is his principle you are living under. God's way is agape. Your happiness should come from living for others, and they you. The problem, perhaps, is you can't find the "they you". Hence you end up poor.

[Robert]

I see a lot of bitterness and envy coming from you.

Not at all....That's totally made up! I prefer God's way....

[Robert]

...the profit I have made enables me to help them in ways I otherwise could not.

It primarily enables you. Then others get what's left over. That's iniquity. Agape doesn't look for gain - agape is not self-seeking. So no matter how you view it you're bent to self. You are failing to live Christ's life.

Again, my point is, Capitalism is not of God. Neither is Communism nor Socialism.

[bonnie]

You mean the world under Lucifer - he is the god of this world. So it is his principle you are living under. God's way is agape. Your happiness should come from living for others, and they you. The problem, perhaps, is you can't find the "they you". Hence you end up poor.

Then I expect you will finally answer.Where does your happiness come from.?Do you live for others or only condemn others?

Have you found the "they you" or have you ended up poor?

Do you work for and keep only what you need for the barest of necessities? Giving all else to others? Do you have more than food and clothing?That is all you need to be content.

Or do you demand from others what you exempt yourself from?

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

I see a lot of bitterness and envy coming from you.

Not at all....That's totally made up! I prefer God's way....

Prefer to talk about what you claim is God's way or living it?Is "I prefer God's way totally made up?

I seem to recall at one point you had a rather expensive vehicle.What were you doing with that when so many go without?