Arguing Theology? Is that YOU? :)

[Gail]

From Dan Reiland, the Pastor's Coach-

Quote:

Arguing Theology

November 14, 2011 in Leadership with 4 Comments

Stop arguing theology and lead people to Jesus.

Is this dangerous theological minimalism or wise practical leadership?

It’s easy to say that it’s possibly or probably both. But that doesn’t get at the real tension. I think the tension resides in why we argue and whether or not we lead people to Jesus.

If you argue about your theology from defensiveness or ignorance, that isn’t helpful. If you argue because of pride and you like to win, that isn’t helpful. But if you argue because you genuinely want to learn and help others understand what God thinks, more than what you think, that seems to me to be heading in the right direction.

Personally, I enjoy a little systematics smack down; and a good rumble in the doctrine dojo is kind of fun now and then. Unless it goes from conversation to conflict to combat, then I’m tapping out. I want to learn and grow, not fight. I want the Kingdom to advance, not take sides. Which leads to the next part of the opening statement – lead people to Jesus.

If people are saying yes to Jesus, experiencing genuine spiritual conversion and changed lives are obvious, it’s hard to argue about that regardless of your theological bent or bias. If a church is leading people to Jesus and lives are changed based on biblical truth, I’m a fan of that church, regardless of their theology.

Theology is important. It’s the foundation of how and what we believe. But what’s more important, what we believe or what we do? They should never be separate, but they often are. That’s where practical leadership comes in. As leaders we must live out our faith and inspire others to do the same.

So, argue or lead? That’s the question for today.

[Gerr]

I have been invited by my Baptist youth pastor neighbor to join him and his friends who on Wed a.m. at Chik-Fil-A (sp)for Bible discussions. I have a mind to go. There is no doubt in my mind that sooner or later, there will be differences. How shall I deal with this differences? I think it is led by the author of a hermeneutics syllabus that I made reference to in the thread about dispensation in the theology section. The syllabus covers not only dispensation, but also the rapture. It says that the Sabbath was never changed, but it was meant only for the Jews and has been done away with. There are several other things in the syllabus that look erroneous to me, so theological disagreements is certain to occur.

I'd like to hear from you all about how I should handle myself.

[Gail]

I like Glenn Coon's attitude, and that was, "2 differences? That's ALL?"

Go as you feel led by the Spirit, Gerry!

[John317]

I've gone to Bible studies with non-SDAs and enjoyed the fellowship and worship with them.

I think the best approach is first of all to gain their confidence. Let them see that you love Jesus and that you care deeply about them as fellow-believers. There will be opportunities for witnessing about the doctrines of the Bible, but I wouldn't "argue" about it with them. This is time to get to know the people and make friends with them.

[phkrause]

I have been invited by my Baptist youth pastor neighbor to join him and his friends who on Wed a.m. at Chik-Fil-A (sp)for Bible discussions. I have a mind to go. There is no doubt in my mind that sooner or later, there will be differences. How shall I deal with this differences? I think it is led by the author of a hermeneutics syllabus that I made reference to in the thread about dispensation in the theology section. The syllabus covers not only dispensation, but also the rapture. It says that the Sabbath was never changed, but it was meant only for the Jews and has been done away with. There are several other things in the syllabus that look erroneous to me, so theological disagreements is certain to occur.

I'd like to hear from you all about how I should handle myself.

Gerry just be the best SDA you can be, be yourself. Allow God to lead.

[Gibs]

Actually "theology" is theory. I don't really like theology. When one has the TRUTH there is no theory about it. It is either Truth or it isn't. Any teaching that isn't total Truth is very dangerous, especially on the salvation issue.

I would say, don't argue, just teach Truth. Truth with the Spirit of God will do it's work.

Jer 1:7 But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.

Jer 1:8 Be not afraid of their faces: for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the LORD.

Jer 1:9 Then the LORD put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth.

Joh 17:17 ¶ Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

1Jo 4:4 ¶ Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

[jasd]

Quote:

...arguing theology [...]

[...] we argue [...]

you argue [...] you argue [...] you argue [...]

systematics smack down ... a good rumble ... the doctrine dojo [...] (et al – jasd)

Isn’t “argue”, as used, a bit weighted and prejudicial? Mebbe, one ought to “tap out” on that “tension” – utilizing less argumentatively leading terminology, yes?

Writ instructs: either plant or water the seed – then get out of the way of Gd. Seeds can be planted in high winds or still; watered sparingly or flooded. The ‘take charge’ one – is Gd.

We are enjoined to concern ourselves with the mere ‘Christ and Him crucified’. Yes?

Otherwise: the article provides good points to dwell upon.

That said, dialogue is required on forums to distill, and to provide or to feed upon the meat of the Word.

Moreover, truths, of themselves, and being what they are, are sometimes hard to come by... and sometimes, having been come by – are hard sayings difficult to [mildly] accept.

[abelisle]

I find this hard to say but I agree wholeheartedly with John on this. Besides, if you believe in the power of the Word and the Holy Spirit, this situation will take care of itself.

[Dr. Rich]

Gerry, do what Paul did and make friends with everyone, Jews and Gentiles alike. Or, do what Jesus did and get yourself killed. Hmmm?

[BobRyan]

Gerry, do what Paul did and make friends with everyone, Jews and Gentiles alike. Or, do what Jesus did and get yourself killed. Hmmm?

Hmm - how many times was Paul stoned?

What about the 40 lashes. How many times for Paul?

And well... hmm how exactly did Paul die "making friends with everyone"?

Paul said that anyone preaching another gospel OTHER than the one he and the other NT authors were preaching should be accursed. Pretty strong language Paul.

in Christ,

Bob

[Guest]

[John317]

Actually "theology" is theory. I don't really like theology.

You may have the wrong idea about theology. It is actually the study of God. Biblical theology is the study of God on the basis of what the Bible teaches. Historical theology is the study of God according to the development of theology throughout history.

So there's a very real sense in which you are studying theology when you study what the Bible teaches about God.

[John317]

Gerry, do what Paul did and make friends with everyone, Jews and Gentiles alike. Or, do what Jesus did and get yourself killed. Hmmm?

Jesus taught that we should make friends and be at peace with everyone we possibly can be. That is what Paul did. Paul not only got stoned but he was killed for his faith in Christ. But before he was killed, Paul helped spread the gospel to more lands and more people than anyone else up to his time. He also wrote more of the NT than anyone else except Dr. Luke.

[ClubV12]

I really like that about Paul, how he could meet with the homeless one day and have dinner with the Governer in a palace the next.

I know something of that. Recently I was working with the homeless one day and reviewing the specifications with my friend about his Lamborghini the next. :)

[John317]

That's right. As Paul said, he learned to be content and joyful no matter what the circumstances.

[Gail]

LOL

[Dr. Rich]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

Gerry, do what Paul did and make friends with everyone, Jews and Gentiles alike. Or, do what Jesus did and get yourself killed. Hmmm?

Jesus taught that we should make friends and be at peace with everyone we possibly can be. That is what Paul did. Paul not only got stoned but he was killed for his faith in Christ. But before he was killed, Paul helped spread the gospel to more lands and more people than anyone else up to his time. He also wrote more of the NT than anyone else except Dr. Luke.

Really? And just where did you find your proof and evidence about Paul's death? And does it matter who wrote more or less of what is NOW called the New Testiment? If it does not agree with the words of Jesus, then what good is it? And why does anyone need anything more than the actual words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitnesses?

Yes, I am stubborn about this and you all know that already. Time magazine had an article about this same issue as there are now many who say the same as Ann Bancroff (sp) that she does not want to be called a Christian but wants to be called a follower of Jesus Christ only.

[John317]

[Lysimachus]

"Have not I written to thee excellent things in counsels and knowledge, That I might make thee know the certainty of the words of truth; that thou mightest answer the words of truth to them that send unto thee?" (Proverbs 22:20,21)

[12tribes]

It is good to start with talking about things we agree on first.

Quote:

In your labor do not be dictatorial, do not be severe, do not be antagonistic. Preach the love of Christ, and this will melt and subdue hearts. Seek to be of one mind and one judgment with your brethren and to speak the same things. This talking about divisions because all do not have the same ideas as present themselves to your mind is not the work of God but of the enemy. Talk the simple truth wherein you can agree. Talk of unity; do not become narrow and conceited; let your mind broaden.— Manuscript 111, 1894. {1MCP 40.3}