ClubV12 Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 I'm just glad whatever commitee it was over ruled Luther and left Revelation in there! :) Quote
Moderators John317 Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 The NWT used Westcott and Hort's texts for their New Testament, and it is really a corrupt Bible. I agree that the New World Translation is a terrible translation, but that is not the fault of the underlying Greek text. The Revised English (1888) and the American Standard (1901) were both based on the Westcott and Hort Greek text, yet both are good translations, and both were used by Ellen G. White. She quoted them in her published writings, and she never had a negative thing to say about Revised English or the American Standard Version. One can teach all the SDA doctrines through the use of those two translations. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Bert Posted November 27, 2011 Author Posted November 27, 2011 I'm not a big fan of the NIV' date=' but we need to make sure we are telling the full truth about the translations. The preface of the NIV says, "The Greek text used in translating the New Testament was an eclectic one." That is to say, it was not a translation of a single text or source. The Greek printed texts used today as the basis of most translations are the United Bible Societies' 4th edition and Nestle-Aland 27th edition, not Westcott and Hort's Greek NT. Quote: My NIV says the same thing, and I believe that they are remiss in not being forthright in identifying Westcott and Hort's texts as their source. The United Bible Societies' edition and Nestle-Aland are mirror translations to Westcott and Hort. Below is a URL to a site that provides a critical examination of both the Textus Receptus and Westcott and Hort's texts. http://www.graceway.com/articles/article_025.html [/quote'] Quote
Guest Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Yes, wish I had that one. Is it in printed form yet? Yes it is, but it's impossible to find a nice one. I use the KJ2000 only when I'm online, or on my computer. I have it in my e-sword. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 Adventists are well aware of the three verses in Revelation that refer to the 'keeping of the commandments' as confirmation that Sabbath-keeping is still in effect. One of them, Rev. 22:14 (NIV), leaves out the 'keeping of commandments' and substitutes 'those who wash their robes'. While I personally prefer the KJV and NKJV of Rev. 22: 14, I recognize that most NT scholars believe the original reading was "those who wash their robes." This includes most SDA Bible scholars today. Even the SDA Bible Commentary acknowledges that "those who wash their robes" may be the original reading. "In actual fact both readings suit the context and are in harmony with John's teaching elsewhere... The two ideas of washed robes and obedience to commandments are closely related." The truth is that one cannot wash one's robes in the blood of Christ without also obeying God's commandments. Read the entire SDA Bible commentary on Rev. 22: 14. Also see the comments of Seventh-day Adventist Bible scholar, Ranko Stefanovic, in Revelation of Jesus Christ, Commentary on the Book of Revelation, Andrews University Press, 2002, pages 604-609. He accepts "those who wash their robes" as the original reading, and says it is the seventh and the last of the beatitudes of the book of Revelation. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 ...Yes it is, but it's impossible to find a nice one. I use the KJ2000 only when I'm online, or on my computer. I have it in my e-sword. Gotta get one of those. I plan to order the KJ2000 at the Bible Store this next week. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 My NIV says the same thing, and I believe that they are remiss in not being forthright in identifying Westcott and Hort's texts as their source. The United Bible Societies' edition and Nestle-Aland are mirror translations to Westcott and Hort. Below is a URL to a site that provides a critical examination of both the Textus Receptus and Westcott and Hort's texts. http://www.graceway.com/articles/article_025.html As I said, the KJV is by far my favorite translation and the one I would choose if I could only have one Bible. But I'm not a KJV Only person because I have studied the Greek manuscripts myself personally for too long to accept that viewpoint. The link you give here is a mix of truths and half-truths. There are actually many differences between the UBS, Nestle-Aland and the Westcott and Hort Greek text. Much of the attack against those editions rely on character assassination of Wescott and Hort. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 Though the KJV may contain minor errors that doesn't affect the gospel message, it was good enough to launch the Protestant movement during the last 300-400 years or so. I agree and I believe without a doubt that God has used the KJV mightily. There's no qusetion in my mind that God had his hand in its translation. I always use it along with about 5 or so other translations. The KJV, though, is not the only translation God uses to bring the gospel to people. God also uses the TEV and the NIV and the RSV and many others. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 Whole Verses OmittedRomans 16:24 Romans 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. OK, but why is this verse critical at that point in Romans? Why was it omitted? Is any Bible truth lost by its omission? It is found in many other parts of the NT, isn't it? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 NIV Whole Verses Omitted Acts 24:7 The omitted part is in blue: KJV--Acts 24:6-8 Who also hath gone about to profane the temple: whom we took, and would have judged according to our law. [7] But the chief captain Lysias came upon us, and with great violence took him away out of our hands, [8] Commanding his accusers to come unto thee: by examining of whom thyself mayest take knowledge of all these things, whereof we accuse him. ESV--Acts 24:6-8 He even tried to profane the temple, but we seized him. [7] [8] By examining him yourself you will be able to find out from him about everything of which we accuse him." Why do you believe it was omitted? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 NIV Whole Verses Omitted Acts 15: 34 Both the Critical Text and the Majority Text omit verse 34. KJV-- Acts 15:34 Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still. ESV-- Acts 15:33-35 And after they had spent some time, they were sent off in peace by the brothers to those who had sent them. [34] [35] But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also. Codex Bezae presents a still more expanded reading, "But it seemed good to Silas that they remain, and Judas journeyed alone." Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators Kevin H Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 Originally Posted By: Kevin H There are 3 basic catagories: Word translations (I forgot the technical term for this)... Are you talking about literal translations, such as Young's Literal Translation or Rotherham's Emphasized? Some word-for-word translations are: King James Translation, New American Standard Bible, Revised Standard Version, English Standard Version,etc. John, I was thinking like the King James, New American Standard and the Revised Standard etc. Both types of Bible are like tools depending on what we want to use them for Quote
Moderators Kevin H Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 Originally Posted By: RLH ...Yes it is, but it's impossible to find a nice one. I use the KJ2000 only when I'm online, or on my computer. I have it in my e-sword. Gotta get one of those. I plan to order the KJ2000 at the Bible Store this next week. I'm not familiar with the KJ2000, please tell me about it Quote
12tribes Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Originally Posted By: 12tribes NIV Whole Verses Omitted Acts 15: 34 Both the Critical Text and the Majority Text omit verse 34. KJV-- Acts 15:34 Notwithstanding it pleased Silas to abide there still. ESV-- Acts 15:33-35 And after they had spent some time, they were sent off in peace by the brothers to those who had sent them. [34] [35] But Paul and Barnabas remained in Antioch, teaching and preaching the word of the Lord, with many others also. Codex Bezae presents a still more expanded reading, "But it seemed good to Silas that they remain, and Judas journeyed alone." The NIV omits 17 whole verses 180 portions of verses Jesus name 38 times Christ 43 times Lord 35 times God 31 times In just the new testament. That is a significant number. That is apart from changing words which changes the meaning of the text. Look at just one verse from both the NIV and KJV Revelation 22:14 (New International Version) Page Options Revelation 22:14 New International Version (NIV) 14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:14 King James Version (KJV) 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. It does not say in the NIV wash your robes in the blood of the lamb it says wash your robes, so if I wash my clothes then I can go to heaven Deuteronomy 4:2 (2) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Proverbs 30:5-6 (5) Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. (6) Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Revelation 22:18 (18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Notice that this is found in the beginning middle and end of the Bible. Quote Galatians 3:29(29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Moderators John317 Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 ...John, I was thinking like the King James, New American Standard and the Revised Standard etc. Yes, I thought so. Originally Posted By: Kevin H Both types of Bible are like tools depending on what we want to use them for. I completely agree with you. I also like Today's English Version and the Contemporary English Version, but I always closely compare them with the King James Version and other literal translations. There's a New Testament in Eight Translations-- it has the King James Version, the NIV, NASB, New Living Translation, The New Century Version, Contemporary English Version, The New King James Version, and The Message. All great tools for studying God's Word. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 ...I'm not familiar with the KJ2000, please tell me about it I've heard about it from several people, but have never read it or seen it myself. I believe it follows the KJV more closely than the New King James Version does. So it is an exact copy of the old KJV but without any of the archaic language. Richard Holbrook could tell you more about it because he has it on his e-sword. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 ...The NIV omits 17 whole verses 180 portions of verses Jesus name 38 times Christ 43 times Lord 35 times God 31 times In just the new testament. That is a significant number. That is apart from changing words which changes the meaning of the text. What we need to do is go over each one of these carefully and consider the manuscript evidence and the significance of each omission and any change in the meaning of the text. The change in the meaning of the translation is not necessarily due to the underlying Greek text. Are there similar changes in the Old Testament? If so, can you cite some of them? I would like to know what you believe is the reason for those omissions of the names of Jesus, Lord, Christ, and God. How is biblical truth affected by these omissions? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 ...Look at just one verse from both the NIV and KJVRevelation 22:14 (New International Version) Page Options Revelation 22:14 New International Version (NIV) 14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:14 King James Version (KJV) 14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. It does not say in the NIV wash your robes in the blood of the lamb it says wash your robes, so if I wash my clothes then I can go to heaven Check out post#496033. Rev. 7:14 I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. NOTE: When people wash their robes, they can only wash them in the blood of the Lamb. Rev. 22: 14 is a direct reference to Rev. 7: 14. What does it mean to "wash your robes in the blood of the Lamb"? What are the "robes"? Don't those verses make us think of the following verses: 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Matthew 22:10-12 And those servants went out into the roads and gathered all whom they found, both bad and good. So the wedding hall was filled with guests. [11] "But when the king came in to look at the guests, he saw there a man who had no wedding garment. [12] And he said to him, 'Friend, how did you get in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. Psalm 51:2-10 Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin! [3] For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me. ...[10] Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a right spirit within me. Isaiah 1:16-18 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes; cease to do evil, [17] learn to do good; seek justice, correct oppression; bring justice to the fatherless, plead the widow's cause. [18] "Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool. Zech. 3:1-5 Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. [2] And the Lord said to Satan, "The Lord rebuke you, O Satan! The Lord who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is not this a brand plucked from the fire?" [3] Now Joshua was standing before the angel, clothed with filthy garments. [4] And the angel said to those who were standing before him, "Remove the filthy garments from him." And to him he said, "Behold, I have taken your iniquity away from you, and I will clothe you with pure vestments." [5] And I said, "Let them put a clean turban on his head." So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the Lord was standing by. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted November 27, 2011 Moderators Posted November 27, 2011 ...Deuteronomy 4:2 (2) Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you. Proverbs 30:5-6 (5) Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. (6) Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Revelation 22:18 (18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: Notice that this is found in the beginning middle and end of the Bible. How would you say those words apply to the differences between the various Greek or Hebrew manuscripts? There's not a single ancient Greek manuscript of the NT which is identical to another manuscript of the NT. It seems to me that the words of warning are intended for people who intentionally add to or subtract from God's Word. Would it be intended for people who are sincerely and honestly attempting to arrive at an accurate translation of the Bible? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Guest Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Originally Posted By: RLH ...Yes it is, but it's impossible to find a nice one. I use the KJ2000 only when I'm online, or on my computer. I have it in my e-sword. Gotta get one of those. I plan to order the KJ2000 at the Bible Store this next week. Where can you get one? Can you get it in leather? I have a hardback one with fairly small print, so I don't use it really. Quote
Guest Posted November 27, 2011 Posted November 27, 2011 Hey John, have you ever heard of TSK, Treasury of Scripture Knowledge? It was edited by R.A. Torrey. I have it in my e-sword, and it's the best Bible cross reference program I've ever seen. So I am thinking I should get it in book form for when I need to study the old fashioned way. Since I'm so used to having it. You can get the book on e-bay for about $12.00 and it is a MOST handy study tool. Quote
Members phkrause Posted November 27, 2011 Members Posted November 27, 2011 This is the way the CJB translates Rev 22:14, How blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they have the right to eat from the Tree of Life and go through the gates into the city! I like the way he puts it. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Aliensanctuary Posted November 28, 2011 Posted November 28, 2011 Can a person get the CJB in digital form, yet? I like it because most of the proper names are not corrupted as they are in all of the other bibles. Don't know why the translator used God in place of the Hebrew names, though. That was a little disappointing. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451Â
Bert Posted November 29, 2011 Author Posted November 29, 2011 Originally Posted By: 12tribes ...The NIV omits 17 whole verses 180 portions of verses Jesus name 38 times Christ 43 times Lord 35 times God 31 times In just the new testament. That is a significant number. That is apart from changing words which changes the meaning of the text. What we need to do is go over each one of these carefully and consider the manuscript evidence and the significance of each omission and any change in the meaning of the text. The change in the meaning of the translation is not necessarily due to the underlying Greek text. Are there similar changes in the Old Testament? If so, can you cite some of them? I would like to know what you believe is the reason for those omissions of the names of Jesus, Lord, Christ, and God. How is biblical truth affected by these omissions? Perhaps a few examples of the omission of references to the Deity in the NT will show that someone just starting to study the Bible can be misled: 1) Matthew 1:25 (NIV) omits the word 'firstborn' in front of son. While this may be trivial, but by omitting firstborn, it takes away the possibility of Mary having other children and implies that she only had a son. 2) Why in Matthew 9:13 (NIV) was it necessary to omit the words "to repentance"? Isn't that what Christ came to do? By omitting it, it just says that 'He did not come to call the righteous, but sinners. To what? 3) Why is the entire verse of Matthew 18:11 (NIV) omitted? It says, "For the son of man cometh to save that which was lost." 4) Or, Matthew 20:16 (NIV), which left out the words, "for many be called, but few chosen." Important words for all of us. 5) Completely deleted is Mark 15:28 and Mark 16:9-20 from the NIV. Some NIV Bibles will have an explanation in the margin for the deletion. 6) Luke 4:8 (NIV) leaves out the words "Get thee behind Me, Satan", words that lend emphasis to the discourse between Satan and Jesus in the wilderness. 7) Luke 4:41 (NIV) leaves out the word 'Christ' in "Thou art Christ, the Son of God". 8) Luke 7:31 (NIV) leaves out the first part of the verses that says, "And the Lord said..." Throughout the NT in the NIV it appears that there is an effort to diminish the role of Christ. 9) Read Luke 11:2-4 (NIV), which is the Lord's Prayer and you will see that it is quite different than the KJV. 10) Luke 24:40 (NIV) has been deleted, for it provides an item of proof that Christ was resurrected. These are just a sample of the changes made. For a complete list of omissions and deletions, here is a hyperlink to a site that lists them: http://av1611.com/kjbp/charts/themagicmarker.html Quote
Members phkrause Posted November 29, 2011 Members Posted November 29, 2011 Can a person get the CJB in digital form, yet? Not as far as I know. Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
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